Forum Burnout

[joeschmuck]

OMG, I think I'm having forum burnout. Is it me or are people getting lazier than normal. No one seems to search for their problem and just posts the same question over and over again without any research. I'm getting burned out.

The thing is, I like helping people out but there are folks that don't even pay attention to minimal setups of FreeNAS and then have all these problems or folks complain about FreeNAS and having us troubleshoot their hardware issues. I can see why some of the people that have been with us a while are not posting so frequently anymore. It just gets to be the same thing day after day.

Yes, I'm ranting, if you know me, I do that. I'm venting off some steam too. And I think I'm pretty laid back in most of my postings.

So if you are someone reading this posting and thinking I'm directing my frustration at you, well you might be right or you might be wrong. I'm basically communicating to the rest of the team here who offers support on a regular basis.

FreeNAS started out as a program which required you to know something about your hardware and something about networking and demanded that you do a lot of your own research. It was not a plug and play system like it is today. Oh how I miss those days. While FreeNAS has become easier to use, we still expect people to show some discipline and read the manual but so many people don't. And I'll be honest, I haven't looked at the manual much lately except to help others out, primary because I'm pretty much done with my system changes until version 10 comes out.

Yea, I'm just ranting a little bit. I hope that any new people who read this will take note that you really need to do a search if you have a problem and look at the user manual. If you cannot figure it out then when you post your question, include all the data in which our forum rules ask you to post. This helps us out from taking wild guesses or having to ask you for the data in the first place. Don't assume the data isn't needed because in most cases, it helps.

I'm done complaining for now. I'm sure there are others that feel similar.

 

[Jailer]

Your spot on. When you answer the same simple questions over and over again nearly daily it gets old after a bit. I' haven't been around that long and I find myself posting less for the very same reason. Seems others are doing the same as most of the regulars are MIA. Speaking if which what happened to @jgreco he hasn't been around here for quite some time.

 

[DrKK]

No, I don't think you guys are thinking straight.

We are getting lesser-skilled users using FreeNAS. They *do* need more help. But what that's a sign of, I think, is word getting out about how nice of a product we have, and how useful of a community we have. One result of that expansion into more mainstream, and less hobbyist, domains, is that the average level of pre-existing expertise we might see might be a bit lower. You can see the difference between lower-skilled "aggressive Linux punk", who tends to state his credentials up front, or tell you that his friend told him X and his "friend has been in IT for 15 years", and demand help, which is what we've typically seen over the years, versus what we're seeing now, people who you can tell are generally in completely uncharted waters, are having a good time, and have no idea how to use Unix, and are very much impressed by all of your guys' knowledge.

So, in a nutshell, let me explain to you what we are: we are becoming one of the primary vectors by which people who have never touched BSD suddenly know of its existence, and become interested. So be patient.

As for "many of the regulars being MIA", that has another explanation.

 

[Spearfoot]

As for "many of the regulars being MIA", that has another explanation.

Has Glorious Leader sent them to a Peace and Brotherhood Camp for Reeducation?

 

[DrKK]

Has Glorious Leader sent them to a Peace and Brotherhood Camp for Reeducation?

No.

 

[Spearfoot]

No.

Oops!

On a more serious note... @joeschmuck's observations are dead-on, and it is frustrating. I often just skip over posts that seem like time-wasters. I hope @DrKK is correct, and the nature of these new posters bodes well for FreeNAS/FreeBSD.

 

[DrKK]

Oops!

On a more serious note... @joeschmuck's observations are dead-on, and it is frustrating. I often just skip over posts that seem like time-wasters. I hope @DrKK is correct, and the nature of these new posters bodes well for FreeNAS/FreeBSD.

We can't be a dominant NAS product without appealing to less-sophisticated users. Remember that.

 

[Bidule0hm]

We can't be a dominant NAS product without appealing to less-sophisticated users. Remember that.

The problem isn't that, the problem is they don't search and/or read the old threads and stickies...

 

[wblock]

Yes. It's understandable, just asking and expecting an answer is easier. One way to address this is with canned answers. I demonstrated that for moderators a while back, but have not begun doing it myself. Something like "Welcome! Your question is answered in <link> and we ask that you look at that now. If it still does not fully answer your question, please post a followup with specific details. Thanks!" Shouldn't need more than three or four of those, really.

Then you can save your energy for questions that actually need a custom answer.

 

[MisterIce]

I can undestand both the sides.

I'm really new to this FreeBSD/FreeNAS ... meaning, the whole DIY server build, but not to computers. I needed some helps in the beginning with the hardware specs and @DrKK saved me from almost making a wrong RAM purchase (thanks again!!). I heard of FreeNAS before but back then you needed to be really more experienced so I never started using it. Now a few years later it is way more user friendly and therefore its attracting more and more BSD beginners like myself.

On the other hand I also agree with @joeschmuck. I'm also the guy who gets called by people to help them with their computer and 99% of the time it's something simple that everyone can fix. Most people just don't want to do some effort to look up the problem...

Example:
Just this week I was practising with the OpenVPN jail tutorial here on the forum and just couldn't get it to work. Went to bed and the next day I tried again fresh from the start and still ... didn't work. After some reading through the posts and log checking I found out I made 1 simple, stupid little typo in the config file. I mean by this, for a lot of problems you can encounter with FreeNAS, there's likely to be a solution on the forum as well. And now I'll never make that same mistake again.

This is what more people need to do. How else are you every going to learn ...

I was very happy with the help I got when I started, but I can imagine that getting asked the same questions over and over again is getting very irritating.

 

[DrKK]

I mean, it's perfectly reasonable to answer mind-numbing thousand-times-answered questions with a link to a forum sticky or the relevant section of the FreeNAS manual. I'm not saying we have to hold everyone's hand when they have simple questions.

I'm just saying: expect somewhat more of this. It may not be a sign of decaying society, but rather, a sign of our wider appeal.

 

[joeschmuck]

@DrKK , I love it when someone puts a positive spin on it and you are 100% correct as well (go figure) and you know, I'm also a person who like to put on that positive spin but today has been just one of those days I guess.

FreeNAS has become a very nice product but we still need to demand that individuals using the product at least put forth some effort into trying to solve the problem on their own. I think the main thing for me is people not even willing to do a Google search (or any search) for the problem they may have, or even looking in the user manual. It's amazing what you can find out if you just type in "freenas" + your error message. It's a world of "instant gratification" and while I think we all like it, sometimes you can't get it and have to work just a little bit for it.

As for pointing a person to a specific posting that may address their situation... If it's something we see a lot of then it's still time consuming getting the link in the first place. I will come up with some statement I can slam down that will hopefully be very generic.

Now I'm not going to stop helping, that is not my style, however I have over a period of time been not visiting the forums as often. That isn't all due to the forums, it also has to do with my paid job being just a bit crazy and consuming more of my time. I don't think I'll go MIA but I do understand why others have and it was a great loss to the forum. Maybe a few of them will come back over time.

So I definitely didn't want to start up arguments between people, and so far I don't think I have. It's good to see some positive points of view to snap me back into reality.

 

[joeschmuck]

So here is my new canned statement. I invite comments. For me it's just hitting CTRL+1 to post the message.


This is a canned response in order to speed up the process of helping you and the team of forum supporters.

If you have not already done so, if you have a setup or configuration question please read the user manual using the link located at the top of the page. If you have a problem/failure, please perform a Forum or Google search for your question/error message. If this does not reveal a solution then please read the Forum Rules and provide the required data if it hasn't already been provided.

Google Search Example: "freenas jail no dhcp" or "freenas offline uncorrectable sectors". A search like this can provide a quick answer.

Cheers!

 

[Mark Holtz]

I appreciate the help that JoeSchmuck gave in my FreeNAS build, even if I don't pay 100% attention to it, especially when it came to memory. (Hint: IIRC, They suggested that I start out with 16GB ECC. I went whole hog with 64GB ECC.) At least I went in the right direction and exceeded the recommendations. Too many people "cheap out" and take shortcuts to cut costs, and wonder why, sometime in the future, why they lost everything because they didn't want to spend the money on ECC memory.

The biggest issue I have with FreeNAS is the User Experience (UX), especially in the web interface. I'm still scratching my head when I look at the PlugIns, for example. Why do we have the default on "Available" instead of "Installed"?

 

[wblock]

please perform a Forum or Google search for your question/error message

But people might not feel they know the right search terms, either. I would rather see three or four links to the most common questions, like "Do I really need ECC memory?", "How many drives do I need?", or "External USB drives are cool, right?", or all in one message. Or whatever common questions get on your nerves most.

 

[Mark Holtz]

Is there a Wiki? Reference the Wiki!

 

[joeschmuck]

But people might not feel they know the right search terms, either.

This requirement is in the Forum Rules for them to do a search and we provide tips on what to search for. I'm just promoting our Forum Rules. People must at least make an effort and if they can't find anything, that is okay. We will help them either way but they should just try.

I would rather see three or four links to the most common questions, like "Do I really need ECC memory?", "How many drives do I need?", or "External USB drives are cool, right?", or all in one message. Or whatever common questions get on your nerves most.

But then I can't use a canned answer which is what iXsystems forum admin has suggested, along with a few others. I honestly don't like canned answers but it would save me and others a lot of time typing.

I appreciate the help that JoeSchmuck gave in my FreeNAS build,

Appreciate the recognition. I try to give good advice just like everyone else tries to do.

Why do we have the default on "Available" instead of "Installed"?

This was intentional and I tried to get it changed via the bug reporting system but lost that discussion. I still don't understand why but FreeNAS works so it's not worth arguing over.

If someone thinks my canned answer needs some changes, I welcome some exact verbiage for me to use. Other forum members may end up using it as well. We should be polite and not condescending and get right to the point.

Cheers

 

[maglin]

I agree with you. I know a lot of the newer people don't even know how to use SSH and putty, or how to even view log files in BSD.

I think a revised hardware thread might help with some info on hardware generations as so many think they can just use the old box collecting dust in the closet for the past 5 years.

And also a sticky on common search terms to use. Many just don't know what they need to be searching.

Anyways I completely understand but on my free time will help where I think I can. Sometimes I end up learning a thing or two.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[pirateghost]

Ha. I just tend to skip over 99% of the threads any more.... I don't feel like reading the same questions and answers every day...

 

[Mirfster]

I think all contributors need to take time off now and again. Things do seem to become repetitive at times, but to be honest they do with my job as well...;)

Also, keep in mind that there have been some new contributors posting which helps to "ease the load" and all you "old dogs" are needed now more than ever. Not just to help answer questions, but to make sure others are kept in-line... :D

I recently got back from a 2 week vacation and had some "down time" and am right now on a weekend getaway at a cabin in the woods, so I am coming back a bit more revived.

Never a bad idea to take time away to recharge, but I'll bet dollars to donuts you all will still be checking in even while away..

Meh, maybe I will start posting really stupid (like more than normal) answers just to keep you all on your toes...