First FreeNAS Server

[Chris Moore]

whereas the motherboard sata ports need to run through the chipset first.

The SAS controller is a more consistent and reliable experience. That said, I built my first NAS using SATA, the problems I had with SATA drove me to move to SAS within a couple years. If you can afford it, I heartily recommend avoiding the pain. Once you go SAS you will never look back.
There is a quote that is (I think) interesting, you can find it here: http://www.scsifaq.org/scsifaq.html
It was asked in the days of IDE vs SCSI which have now evolved into SATA and SAS, but it goes like this:

SCSI is like a palace, with an architecture that was well thought out from the beginning and built upon over a period of time to make it even greater than originally envisioned.

IDE/ATA is like a log cabin, with a dirt floor, built from whatever was found lying around in late Fall just before the snow came. It can't be expanded because it has no foundation and would collapse under its own weight.

Both provide shelter. SCSI costs more (but not as much as a palace :-)).

Take your pick.


So, SAS, (Serial Attached SCSI) is even better than SCSI was while SATA is kind of still the junker of technology that it ever was. Think of it this way. SAS is so good that it can handle SATA drives while SATA is so bad that it can barely handle drives at all.

And yes, I didn't forget the cooler. I'm considering a noctua cooler on amazon (assuming they support the socket, which I am 99% sure they do).

It is a LGA 2011 with a Narrow ILM, the Narrow ILM is the tough bit because not all coolers support it, but Noctua does make at least one cooler that does, I bought one once, but I can't recall the model number. It isn't that much quieter than the Dynatron cooler. I have two of the Dynatron and one of the Noctua and most of the time you can't tell the difference. At least, I can't but I know I have some hearing loss. If you are very sensitive, it might actually make a difference to you.

If you are not expecting to go to a lot of drives you might want to go with one of these cases. I have one of them and they are really a good value:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fractal-De...omputer-Case-FD-CA-DEF-R5-BK-New/132874705453
Room for eight drives and it is quiet with a dust filter.

Also, if you are not going to have many drives, you would be better served to go with 6 or 8 drives to start. Even if it is more room than you think you need, it will give you more time to use the system before you need to consider expanding. The 5 drives you suggested are only going to give you about 8.2 TB of usable capacity because you can only fill it to 80%. Adding one more drive takes that up to 11.1 TB and if you add two drives (total of 8 at RAIDz2) it gives you 15.8 TB of capacity.

 

[Chris Moore]

PS. The capacity calculator here is quite good:
https://wintelguy.com/zfs-calc.pl/?raidtype=R1&ndg=2&ng=1&zmd_chkbx=ZMD

 

[CraigD]

It is a LGA 2011 with a Narrow ILM, the Narrow ILM is the tough bit because not all coolers support it, but Noctua does make at least one cooler that does, I bought one once, but I can't recall the model number. It isn't that much quieter than the Dynatron cooler. I have two of the Dynatron and one of the Noctua and most of the time you can't tell the difference. At least, I can't but I know I have some hearing loss. If you are very sensitive, it might actually make a difference to you.

I was looking at the Noctua NH-D9DX i4 for a possible build a few hours ago, I think that is the one your thinking of?


Have Fun

 

[Chris Moore]

I was looking at the Noctua NH-D9DX i4 for a possible build a few hours ago, I think that is the one your thinking of?

Thanks. That looks like it. It works well for cooling but unless the Dynatron fans ramp up to deal with a thermal issue, they are both inaudible from outside the case.

 

[thatflashcat]

So, SAS, (Serial Attached SCSI) is even better than SCSI was while SATA is kind of still the junker of technology that it ever was. Think of it this way. SAS is so good that it can handle SATA drives while SATA is so bad that it can barely handle drives at all.

It is a LGA 2011 with a Narrow ILM, the Narrow ILM is the tough bit because not all coolers support it, but Noctua does make at least one cooler that does, I bought one once, but I can't recall the model number. It isn't that much quieter than the Dynatron cooler. I have two of the Dynatron and one of the Noctua and most of the time you can't tell the difference. At least, I can't but I know I have some hearing loss. If you are very sensitive, it might actually make a difference to you.

If you are not expecting to go to a lot of drives you might want to go with one of these cases. I have one of them and they are really a good value:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fractal-De...omputer-Case-FD-CA-DEF-R5-BK-New/132874705453
Room for eight drives and it is quiet with a dust filter.

Also, if you are not going to have many drives, you would be better served to go with 6 or 8 drives to start. Even if it is more room than you think you need, it will give you more time to use the system before you need to consider expanding. The 5 drives you suggested are only going to give you about 8.2 TB of usable capacity because you can only fill it to 80%. Adding one more drive takes that up to 11.1 TB and if you add two drives (total of 8 at RAIDz2) it gives you 15.8 TB of capacity.

Ok so SAS it is which is what I was planning on anyway.

Fractal Design makes great cases though unfortunately it looks like the Define R5 is no longer made (still, $100 + $30 shipping isn't too bad). I'm using the meshify c in my current workstation/gaming build.

I've considered moving to 6 drives since it adds a flat 4tb of capacity. Even taking into account the 80% limit I found that 5 4tb drives would be enough, though it would leave more room for snapshots and windows images if I used 6 drives.

At any rate, I'm about ready to order things.

 

[Chris Moore]

Fractal Design makes great cases though unfortunately it looks like the Define R5 is no longer made (still, $100 + $30 shipping isn't too bad). I'm using the meshify c in my current workstation/gaming build.

I like the Define R5 better than the replacement. It is totally your call though, your system. Have fun and let us know how it goes.

 

[thatflashcat]

I like the Define R5 better than the replacement. It is totally your call though, your system. Have fun and let us know how it goes.

Absolutely, will do! I'll order things tonight unless there is something else I should consider first (which I don't think there is).

 

[sokoloff]

(I don't feel qualified to comment on the specific choices of hardware, but didn't want you to think I was ignoring the @mention.)

 

[thatflashcat]

(I don't feel qualified to comment on the specific choices of hardware, but didn't want you to think I was ignoring the @mention.)

No worries lol

I like the Define R5 better than the replacement. It is totally your call though, your system. Have fun and let us know how it goes.

I found a Phanteks case on Amazon that had plenty of internal drice space and had a crazy 200mm fan in the front. The CPU listing disappeared quickly so I found another listing for the E5-2650 V2 for $95. It will take over a week for everything to get here but I will start the build as soon as I can.

 

[Chris Moore]

I found a Phanteks case on Amazon that had plenty of internal drice space and had a crazy 200mm fan in the front.

What model case is it?

 

[thatflashcat]

What model case is it?

This one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00K6S1B3Q/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[Chris Moore]

This one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00K6S1B3Q/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Nice.
That looks to be a bigger case than the Define R5 (didn't check listed measurements) but it dedicates most of the space to all those 5.25 bays. Still, you can put hot-swap drive bays in there and add six more drives later if you need more capacity.

 

[pro lamer]

IDE/ATA is like a log cabin, with a dirt floor, built from whatever was found lying around in late Fall just before the snow came. It can't be expanded because it has no foundation and would collapse under its own weight.

Why don't we loose the SAS reliability when attaching a SATA drive to SAS controller? Doesn't it switch to SATA mode?

Sent from my mobile phone

 

[Ericloewe]

Why don't we loose the SAS reliability when attaching a SATA drive to SAS controller? Doesn't it switch to SATA mode?

Sent from my mobile phone

It's not as simple as SATA=bad and SAS=good.

There's nothing wrong with SATA, it's just a limited consumer interface with a long and weird history. The problem is the hardware. Everything other than Intel SATA controllers is almost universally crap. When SATA 6 Gb/s was new, 6 Gb/s controllers from Marvell and the like were routinely outperformed by the Intel ICH10R Southbridge... which only supported SATA 3 Gb/s! And that's without even getting into port replicators and the like...

SAS is a much more robust solution. Naturally, the SCSI command set is better than ATA - full duplex versus half-duplex, for starters. The SAS physical layer is also more robust, with higher signal voltages. SAS controllers are not designed for the penny-pinching consumer motherboard market, where a 1.72 $ Intel I219-V is considered too expensive and replaced by a 1.42 $ Realtek RTL8111E (or another alphabet soup version of the RTL8111).

As for SATA disks on SAS controllers, only the last physical link is SATA. If you have an expander, the SATA connection gets encapsulated in an SAS connection up to the controller, so you get all the benefits of the more robust physical layer until you get to the expander - from there, the signal path is usually very short anyway.

 

[Chris Moore]

Doesn't it switch to SATA mode?

No, the SAS controller 'encapsulates' the SATA data packet inside a SAS data packet. You can think of it as being similar to network data packets when they pass through a router and get 'wrapped'.

 

[thatflashcat]

No, the SAS controller 'encapsulates' the SATA data packet inside a SAS data packet. You can think of it as being similar to network data packets when they pass through a router and get 'wrapped'.

Good thing I have SAS then.

My drives showed up today and are in excellent condition in sealed anti-static bags, so no concerns there. Everything will be here for sure by the 12th.

 

[pro lamer]

No, the SAS controller 'encapsulates' the SATA data packet inside a SAS data packet. You can think of it as being similar to network data packets when they pass through a router and get 'wrapped'.

Even though I think I knew it already,. I must have underestimated this fact. Now I can think of this encapsulation as a gain for example letting longer data cables use.

Edit: but where does the encapsulation take place? I guess not at the place of SATA disk connector? Where is the encapsulation helpful?

Edit 2: I can guess it happens at some SAS equipment like backplanes or expanders. Well: I am not able to guess which of them in particular :) I am just curious, I am not planning use of them yet, so I don't need a detailed answer yet

Sent from my mobile phone

 

[thatflashcat]

Weird, I can't get it to post. IPMI led is flashing, there is a solid green light by the case connections, and no beep codes, but no post on the display. I'm probably going to pull the board from the case and try again in case there is a short somewhere.

 

[thatflashcat]

Ok I still can't get the board to post. The cpu fan spins and the IPMI led is flashing green but there is no output to the monitor.

I checked the case and there were two extra standoffs behind the memory slots on the motherboard, so I removed the board from the case but still nothing. I've tried putting the memory in different slots as well. Any thoughts? @Chris Moore This is my first time dealing with a build that hasn't worked immediately. :P

 

[Chris Moore]

Edit: but where does the encapsulation take place? I guess not at the place of SATA disk connector? Where is the encapsulation helpful?

Edit 2: I can guess it happens at some SAS equipment like backplanes or expanders.

Yes, the encapsulation happens at the SAS expander, which allows you to have SATA disks in SAS disk shelves that are externally attached to the server. For example, I have a system at work that has four SAS expander disk shelves attached with 16 drives in each shelf. Total cable length is over nine feet, but the SATA drives don't care because they plug direct to the SAS backplane. From there it is all SAS traffic back to where the controller dumps the data into the operating system. The exact way that is handled probably varies some by operating system but the drive is still recognized as a SATA drive connected over a SAS interface. If you use SAS interposers connected to each individual SATA drive, then the drives appear as SAS drives but with some missing capabilities.