BUILD Doubts on building a home NAS - T20

[samuyeah]

Hello everyone! I'm new to this forum and I'd like to thank you all for the priceless support you're giving through this foum. I've been reading you for a while and I have to take my hat off for all the useful information you're providing here.

I'll summarize my situation so I could start asking precise questions regarding my doubts and problems here: I started to accumulate multimedia content long time ago and I ended up building a NAS server in an old PC based in Ubuntu+ZFS (4*2TB green WD HDDs). The motherboard on that build (an old Asus P5B Deluxe) died around 2 years ago when I was planning to move to a proper ZFS NAS solution so I finally abandoned the idea and packed those HDDs in a safe place. Now I'm retaking my plans on bluiding a serious FreeNAS solution and I'd like to revive my old PC so I could transfer all contents to this new solution.

Here's my first dilemma: after 2 years those drives being laying around (ZFS vdev RAID-Z1 built in Ubuntu), does it worth to replace the old mobo so I could turn my old Ubuntu on again and transfer safely my contents to a new FreeNAS server? I mean: will it be reliable (it's data integrity what we're talking about here) to spend hundreds of euros in a FreeNAS build to copy the data from my old computer to this new NAS solution?

I hope I've explained myself clearly and I wish I could get your thoughts on this matter as ZFS experts.

Again, tahnks so much for your piceless support. You're all superstars.

 

[AVB]

I'm sure that there are some real experts here that can give you a definitive answer but my first thought is that ZFS is a file system that is cross platform so I would think you should be able to import the disks into your new FreeNas box. Mind that I have never done so with anything from Ubuntu so I can't say that with absolute certainty. Hopefully somebody who is far more advanced will chime in to give you a better answer.

 

[depasseg]

I'm of the same opinion as AVB. I would think FreeNAS would see the ZFS pool, but it's not a guarantee. I wouldn't worry about replacing your old MOBO though. If your intention is to run FreeNAS, then I would build a system for that. If for some reason your Ubuntu ZFS pool can't be imported into FreeNAS, then you could temporarily install Ubuntu on the server and copy the data to a different filesystem and then import from that. Welcome and good luck!

 

[Mirfster]

So just a few questions/comments:

1. The old system "Ubuntu+ZFS", is that the only place that the data is stored?
   • Not sure of its relevance and thinking that you may have copies elsewhere or its not important since it has been "shelved" for a couple years
2. It may be possible that the old drives are UFS (which is not supported in 9.3 and above) - Not 100% but see what others say
   • That may pose an issue, since while you can import a UFS disk it is not possible to import a UFS RaidZ...
   • Speaking per 9.10, not sure about earlier versions of FreeNas
3. If you have adequate space elsewhere, you may consider first installing Ubuntu on the new Server, getting the data copied elsewhere first; then install FreeNas and restore the data to a new pool.

 

[pirateghost]

So just a few questions/comments:

1. The old system "Ubuntu+ZFS", is that the only place that the data is stored?
   • Not sure of its relevance and thinking that you may have copies elsewhere or its not important since it has been "shelved" for a couple years
2. It may be possible that the old drives are UFS (which is not supported in 9.3 and above) - Not 100% but see what others say
   • That may pose an issue, since while you can import a UFS disk it is not possible to import a UFS RaidZ...
   • Speaking per 9.10, not sure about earlier versions of FreeNas
3. If you have adequate space elsewhere, you may consider first installing Ubuntu on the new Server, getting the data copied elsewhere first; then install FreeNas and restore the data to a new pool.

Highly doubt the disks are UFS if they were created on Ubuntu. OP says they are ZFS which is likely.

 

[Mirfster]

I knew that it was a good idea to leave that statement open ended :)

 

[joeschmuck]

I agree with the previous statements made...

1) You should build a new system (motherboard & ECC RAM), not revive your old system.
2) You should load FreeNAS on your new system.
3) You should connect your old drives to your new system and try to Import your pool. If it works, great!
4) If your pool will not import then load Ubuntu on your new system and try to access your pool. If you can then you can save off your data.
5) Run a Long SMART self test on each of your drives. Ensure they pass.
6) Lastly, ensure you are running the proper RAIDZ format for your pool. We here prefer RAIDZ2 but we don't know what your pool was configured for, or if you want to retain it.

Good Luck.

 

[Ericloewe]

In any case, a new pool, created in FreeNAS, is recommended to keep things from breaking in fascinating ways.

Importing the old pool, should, however, not be a problem. It might not be reliable in the long run, but it'll certainly work fine to get your data off the old pool.

 

[samuyeah]

Thanks you all for all your quick and helpful replies, now things seem more clear to me. But, in order to move on and continue solving my eternal dilemmas (welcome to my life!), I'd like to explain myself better and point out a couple of things that have been said in this thread:

1) Taking into account that those WD Green 2TB HDDs are not so old (from 6 to 2 years I'd say); taking into account the old shitty non-ECC, semi-stable Ubuntu ZFS implementation; taking into account these last 2 years in the shade... would you be confident on recovering the data intact in your experience? I know it's hard to say but I'd appreciate your wise on this specific matter.

2) Imagine that the mobo is working fine and you have a brand new FreeNAS build waiting for fresh bytes... what would you do in my case: import the pool or transfer the data into a brand new pool? (Again, data integrity is the first priority here).

I've to say that my plans are to grow the home NAS as much as I can in the future. I also have to confess that the data on those drives just mainly contain downloaded audios, music and mostly films and series that are not critical for me. But precisely because of that I've become so freak with data integrity: if there's the chance of data getting corrupted I'll probably try to download that stuff again (a fraction of it will be impossible I assume but I could live with that).

I really appreciate your help, thanks for being there.

 

[AVB]

If you are that concerned about the data then importing is the way to go because whatever data you have will be read by a up to date system with ECC memory and the latest version of ZFS. Once you have it imported then you can copy to a new pool, wipe and do a long smart test on your old drives and if they pass make another vdev or another pool with them. That is provided you have a set of new drives you can use in your new box. The best you could do would be to make hash files for everything and then see if they copied over exactly.

Does that really matter if you import or do a copy? Probably not since a missing bit in a movie or a audio file is nowhere near critical and you don't and can't know if it has already happened.

 

[Ericloewe]

1) Taking into account that those WD Green 2TB HDDs are not so old (from 6 to 2 years I'd say); taking into account the old shitty non-ECC, semi-stable Ubuntu ZFS implementation; taking into account these last 2 years in the shade... would you be confident on recovering the data intact in your experience? I know it's hard to say but I'd appreciate your wise on this specific matter.

If they were working, odds are that you'll get your data back.

2) Imagine that the mobo is working fine and you have a brand new FreeNAS build waiting for fresh bytes... what would you do in my case: import the pool or transfer the data into a brand new pool? (Again, data integrity is the first priority here).

Well, importing the old pool is a prerequisite to copying it over to a new pool.

 

[joeschmuck]

1) Taking into account that those WD Green 2TB HDDs are not so old (from 6 to 2 years I'd say); taking into account the old shitty non-ECC, semi-stable Ubuntu ZFS implementation; taking into account these last 2 years in the shade... would you be confident on recovering the data intact in your experience? I know it's hard to say but I'd appreciate your wise on this specific matter.

It would be pure speculation on our part if the drives were okay or not but the reality is you have no choice but to try them. If your data is okay or not, you will find out. Also, you care not looking at a considerable amount of time to validate your data integrity. If you import this pool of drives into FreeNAS and then run a Scrub, you will know soon if any of your data is corrupt. Of course in you predicament I would just start copying the data you want off the drives right away, ZFS will of course validate the files as it reads them.

2) Imagine that the mobo is working fine and you have a brand new FreeNAS build waiting for fresh bytes... what would you do in my case: import the pool or transfer the data into a brand new pool? (Again, data integrity is the first priority here).

Well to answer your question, I'd transfer the data to a new system, not import because based on your statement you have a function FreeNAS system which to me indicates you have a pool already established.

But maybe it depends on a few factors on if I'd import them and assume they are my final setup:
1) You need to verify the old drives are in good condition by running a SMART Long Test. You can do that in any computer system now of you like, don't need to wait for a new FreeNAS system. If the drives test good then you can use them and save some money up front.
2) Are the drives formatted in the proper/desired RAIDZ format? If not then you will need to save off your data and then destroy and create your new pool.

My current advice is for you to take those drives you have, attach them to some computer that can run a SMART long test on them and see what the results are. Feel free to post those results if you need someone to interpret them for you. If you recall the pool type you had then that would become important too because if you had a RAIDz1 and find out you have 2 drives that fail horribly. Well you know you will need some new drives and that you may not be able to recover some of the data (depending on the failure).

 

[samuyeah]

As everybody seem to agree, my best choice would be transferring the data to a new pool in a new FreeNAS system. Next few days I'll try to concrete what my options are regarding this new build (in the meantime I'll try to check my old drives as joeschmuck wisely adviced).

Thanks so much for your time and attention. I owe you all a round of beers.

 

[samuyeah]

Well, 3 of 4 WD Green 2TB HDDs passed the tests so far. More chances on getting the pool back I suppose (RAID-Z1 vdev).

After reading a lot in this forum I've finally decided to go for the easy and cheap option and I've ordered a Dell Poweredge T20 (210€ in amazon) + 2 X Crucial CT2KIT102472BD160B 8GB RAM (140€). That's 350€ for an out-of-the-box FreeNAS+ZFS solution. Unbeatable.

If I cannot get my data back I'll have entertainment for a while filling those 4x2TB HDDs again. But if I manage to import the old pool (I am counting on this), I'll be in the same situation as before: a) I need more space and b) I need to transfer my data to a brand new pool. As I said, for the short term I'll be OK with the T20 but I started wondering what options do I have for a future expansion:

1) Rob a bank and build a proper FreeNAS solution following the guides and recommendations in this forum (around 600€-700€ + disks) so I get more TB and I'll be able to transfer the data to a new FreeNAS pool (I could also recycle old WD Green 2TB in a second pool afterwards).

2) Build a SAS external enclosure with more room for more disks and attach it to the T20 (I know this isn't the most popular solution in this forum but I cannot see any problems with it yet).

3) An occasional external backup solution that allows me to securely transfer the data and create a new bigger pool in the T20 (some kind of an Icy Box solution I mean).

4) Buy a second Dell T20 and fill it with bigger disks (for its price it's still the cheapest solution probably).

5) Gradually replace my old HDDs with bigger disks without transferring my data and/or creating a new pool in the FreeNAS system (taking into account that my pool was created in an old-non-ECC Ubuntu server: would this be a reliable long term solution?).

I'd like to hear your thoughts on these ideas, specially the last one. What you think of them? Do I have more options?

Sorry for my illiterate and never-ending doubts, I'm learning a lot here. Thanks so much for your kind and priceless help as always.

 

[PhilipS]

I just recently put together a Dell T20 system. FWIW, I had to tape up a lot of the ventilation holes in the case to get merely adequate airflow over my drives to keep them cool.

However, based on your location, this may not be much of an issue for you. :)

 

[samuyeah]

I just recently put together a Dell T20 system. FWIW, I had to tape up a lot of the ventilation holes in the case to get merely adequate airflow over my drives to keep them cool.

However, based on your location, this may not be much of an issue for you. :)

Hey! Global warming is a very important problem that concerns us all :D

Did you tape your server like that?: https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/dell-poweredge-t20.18989/page-2#post-145291
Any pictures?

BTW: I'll let you know if I have a bad connection issue ;)
https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/dell-t20-blue-sata-port.43962/

 

[PhilipS]

Did you tape your server like that?: https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/dell-poweredge-t20.18989/page-2#post-145291
Any pictures?

Yep, pretty much like described in that thread. I have no pictures, but it is straight forward. Don't forget the opening on the side of the case.

My drives still hit over 40C under load, I'm not too happy about that. Next step is to get more airflow out of the case fan.

As a side note, these drives are 8TB models pulled from WD MyBooks (WD80EZZX drives). When I tested them inside the MyBook enclosure they reached 48C

 

[Robert Trevellyan]

My bottom two drives are the warmest. During a scrub, the upper of those two often goes above 40C, but not far above (its lifetime max is 43C). The one below has been up to 41C. Just last night I was thinking about replacing the vented PCIe blanking plates with solid plates, as you mentioned in your other thread.

 

[samuyeah]

Hi lads! Just a quick update FYI:

My old WD Green successfuly passed SMART tests. I was desperate to confirm if the pool could be imported so I tried directly in FreeNAS and... YES! Everything was incredible fine and easy.

During T20's first boot up I entered the BIOS in order to check settings and I noticed that RAM memory was listed as 1333Mhz...¿? Later on I found this post where somebody appear to have found that you need to upgrade T20's G3220 CPU in order to get 1600 Mhz memory rates. Is that correct people?

Right now I'm stressing the RAM memory with Memtest86: no errors so far after 7 hours running (first time I run Memtest86 it freezed up; I tested DIMMs separately and they were OK, I put them both back again and swap (white) slots and everything OK so far). I'll run a scrub when I confirm that everything's soft and smooth.

 

[jgreco]

Memory speed for a ZFS NAS isn't suuuuuuuper important. You're limited by the speed of hard disks and ethernets. Don't get all OCD about 1333 vs 1600.