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Compatible UPS

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Inxsible

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I am currently looking at 2 different rack-mount online UPS(es?) and was wondering if anyone had any experience with either of them.

  1. Tripp Lite SmartOnline SU1500RTXL2UA (without a network card)
  2. APC SURTA2200XL (without a network card)
Devices potentially connected to the UPS
  • Primary NAS with 12 drives(eventually -- currently has 6 drives) (2x1028W Platinum PSUs -- although the consumption is/would be much less - 70W CPU, 25W Board, 4x10W RAM, 3x10W Fans = 165W Total + 12x10W HDD or 12x30W HDD(spin-up) + 25W HBA card )
  • Backup NAS with 6 drives (450W Corsair Gold PSU - 53W CPU, 4x10W RAM, 25W Board, 3x10W Fans, 5W USB = 155W Total + 6x10W HDD or 6x30W HDD(spin-up) )
  • pfSense 1U router (10W CPU, ~35W single stick RAM+Board = 45W )
  • TP-Link 16 port Switch (~120V - 0.3A = 36W)
  • DD-WRT Access point (1.5A, 12V DC)
  • Cable modem (coz, why not)(~120V - 0.5A = 60W)
  • .
  • The TV and soundbar are just behind the wall where the UPS will be and are also connected to the ethernet from the patch panel - so if the wattage allows, I might pull a power strip from the UPS to the other side of the wall and put the TV and soundbar on the UPS as well - but this doesn't have to happen
Adding all that up comes to 1024W peak. I might add 20% to the grand total --for future expansion in case I add any additional server. This is why I thought 1500VA = ~1000W to 1350W is the UPS that I should target.

I have some questions regarding UPSes in general
  1. The NUT tools shows me that the Tripp Lite is
    Code:
    Yellow(based on publicly available protocol)
    for the usbhid-usb driver. But I don't get any results if I change the Connection Type to Network. Does this mean that this UPS is only supported via USB and not via Network or Serial? APC was all Red except if you are using a network connection type
  2. What does "protocol 4001" or protocol 4004" mean on the NUT tools (I saw these for SU1500RTXL2UA and SU1500RTXLCD2U respectively)
  3. How would I check the UPS' compatibility with FreeBSD (either with FreeNAS as the master and pfSense as the slave or vice-versa).
  4. Do Online UPS go through batteries at a higher rate since the batteries are constantly being used for AC->DC->AC compared to Line-Interactive where the batteries only get activated in case of a blackout/brownout? The AVR in a Line-Interactive UPS should handle the other minor fluctuations, I imagine.
  5. Given that this is going to be for home use, do you think it is overkill to go for a Online UPS as compared to Line-Interactive given that the Online UPS (refurb with new batteries) is available for about $250-$350? If not, then I might just get a brand new Line-Interactive UPS instead of looking for a used one with new batteries as that will give me some warranty as well. Or a bigger VA rating say 3000. Lots of possibilities with Line-Interactive in the same price range.
  6. Currently all my devices are connected to a PDU which connects to the wall. Would it be ok to power all these devices from the same UPS receptacle -- so that I can continue using the PDU? OR should all devices be connected to the UPS directly -- in that case, I believe the number of receptacles on the UPS will be less as both come with only 6 NEMA5-15R receptacles
 

kdragon75

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Keep in mind that the VA rating has nothing to do with run time.
Cable modem (coz, why not)(~120V - 0.5A = 60W)
You might want to check that... I have never seen a 60w cable modem...
Also keep in mind that a TV and soundbar may not be PFC loads. Not ideal to connect to a UPS.
 

Inxsible

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Keep in mind that the VA rating has nothing to do with run time.
Agreed

You might want to check that... I have never seen a 60w cable modem...
Also keep in mind that a TV and soundbar may not be PFC loads. Not ideal to connect to a UPS.
It says
Code:
100~240VAC,50/60Hz,0.5A MAX
I know it won't pull 0.5A all the time, but I just took the max on the sticker and ran with it.

I will research more about PFC loads. Thanks.
 

xyz-cases

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I can't help you much since I'm new at this my self, but your modem brick probably have a transformator taking it from 120/230v to 12v.

Take the output voltage and multiply it by the amperage.

Example:
Output: 12v x 2.0A =24w

60w is really high for a modem.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk
 

Chris Moore

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Also keep in mind that a TV and soundbar may not be PFC loads. Not ideal to connect to a UPS.
Why is that?
Do Online UPS go through batteries at a higher rate since the batteries are constantly being used for AC->DC->AC compared to Line-Interactive where the batteries only get activated in case of a blackout/brownout? The AVR in a Line-Interactive UPS should handle the other minor fluctuations, I imagine.
One of the facilities I did work for (years ago) had very bad power and went with online UPS systems as a way to get clean, reliable power, to the computers.
It may not always be true, but in their situation they were constantly having dips and surges that were being corrected by the UPS. This does put an additional load on the batteries and they needed new batteries after just about two and a half years, where I have seen a 'normal' stand-by UPS battery pack last four to five years.
Your specific situation will likely be different.
instead of looking for a used one with new batteries as that will give me some warranty as well.
I have never seen a UPS fail, in any way, inside the warranty conditions where some outside influence was not involved that would void the warranty. For example, we had flooding that wet the equipment and caused failures. It was during the warranty period, but was not a warranty event.
Currently all my devices are connected to a PDU which connects to the wall. Would it be ok to power all these devices from the same UPS receptacle -- so that I can continue using the PDU? OR should all devices be connected to the UPS directly -- in that case, I believe the number of receptacles on the UPS will be less as both come with only 6 NEMA5-15R receptacles
I have many racks configured with vertical PDU strips running up the back of the rack that plug into a UPS system mounted in the bottom of the rack. I think it would be fine to do this, but you need to ensure that you are not overloading the outlet on the UPS.
 
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rvassar

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Why is that?
TV's & Home Theater systems have very large audio amplifiers designed to recreate the subtlest of details in the waveforms presented to their inputs. Most computer UPS inverters throw square waves or stepped RMS modified square waves that are not fully filtered to smooth ripple free DC needed by these amplifiers. When you connect one to a computer UPS, you usually get a harsh 60 or 120hz buzz. There are true sinewave UPS units that I'm told work better.
 

Inxsible

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There are true sinewave UPS units that I'm told work better.
The ones that I was looking at were pure sine wave output as they were online UPSes. I have also seen a few line-interactive units that have pure sine wave output. Those can be used for the TV etc, right?
 

rvassar

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The ones that I was looking at were pure sine wave output as they were online UPSes. I have also seen a few line-interactive units that have pure sine wave output. Those can be used for the TV etc, right?
As much as I'd like to be able to say "yes", I don't have any hands on experience with them to confirm they work. I only have confirmation that the stepped / square wave ones do not work.
 

xyz-cases

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Pure sine-wave is the best UPS's for sensitive electronics. Square-wave and modified sine-wave are more for lighting etc. I wouldn't run a NAS or server on anything but a pure sine-wave UPS.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk
 

rvassar

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Pure sine-wave is the best UPS's for sensitive electronics. Square-wave and modified sine-wave are more for lighting etc. I wouldn't run a NAS or server on anything but a pure sine-wave UPS.
I'm going to disagree. Computers are indeed sensitive electronics. So much so that their standard power supplies have much more robust switching and filtering engineered into them, just to survive your refrigerator or basement sump pump switching on in a non-UPS application. I don't know of any modern IT application that specifies a sine wave inverter over the standard step-square wave rack units. All they need to do is hold the rack up until the generator starts, and stabilizes in RPM.

At home, I might buy one to use in a mixed application. Say a home office with a TV and computers. But you get at most a couple minutes of run time, so... Not a lot of point in wasting UPS capacity on a TV.
 

xyz-cases

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I'm going to disagree. Computers are indeed sensitive electronics. So much so that their standard power supplies have much more robust switching and filtering engineered into them, just to survive your refrigerator or basement sump pump switching on in a non-UPS application. I don't know of any modern IT application that specifies a sine wave inverter over the standard step-square wave rack units. All they need to do is hold the rack up until the generator starts, and stabilizes in RPM.

At home, I might buy one to use in a mixed application. Say a home office with a TV and computers. But you get at most a couple minutes of run time, so... Not a lot of point in wasting UPS capacity on a TV.
I didn't say it was only possible to run it on a pure sine-wave UPS, I said I wouldn't. It would most likely be fine on a modified sine-wave or even a square wave UPS, but why would one risk it? The UPS would be low-cost compared to the other equipment

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk
 

Chris Moore

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All the UPS systems we use at work (and what I use at home) are the stepped wave type. It is good enough. I don't bother with a UPS for things like TV and Stereo where they might actually need pure sign wave because of something intrinsic to the functionality.
I have a old digital clock that can't function at all on a stepped wave UPS because it uses the sign wave to measure time.

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Inxsible

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All the UPS systems we use at work (and what I use at home) are the stepped wave type. It is good enough. I don't bother with a UPS for things like TV and Stereo where they might actually need pure sign wave because of something intrinsic to the functionality.
Thanks Chris. If stepped wave is good enough, do you think a line-interactive might be ok as well instead of a double-conversion topology? The reason I ask is Line-Interactive UPS are much easier to find on Ebay for around $200. Double-conversion UPS are usually around $350-400 with an exception here and there for about $250 -- but in a sad exterior condition at least from the looks of it.

All I need the UPS to do, is keep running the servers for 3-5 mins MAX and if it is a extended brownout or a blackout, then start the graceful shutdown process on those servers. I really don't need to keep the servers running for more than that, because it's a home environment and in case the power stabilizes itself on the 6th minute, it really is NOT much of a hassle to start up the 2-3 machines up again. Plus, we don't have that many issues with power at our place.

Also, I have seen some UPSes have 4-6 receptacles as battery back-up and maybe a couple more for "Surge Protection only". I was thinking of plugging the TV and soundbar to the "Surge Protection only" instead of having another surge protector near the TV. But again, the TV is not that important as far as this UPS purchase is concerned. I have other ways of protecting those equipment. If it blows up, it will give me a chance to upgrade to a bigger TV ;)
 

Chris Moore

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You won't be able to use the exact same model, but this is what I use. It has a receptacle in the back to add a second battery pack if you need longer run time. I have six UPS units like this at home. One for each server and one for my desktop computer and one for my wife's desktop. They will keep the systems up for around 15 minutes, depending on the exact load at the time. Some of the UPS units have additional items like switches, routers, firewalls etc. so that all the computers and their communications say up until the power either returns or the low battery signal goes out, when everything starts to shutdown. I have had some of these UPS units long enough that they are on their second or even third set of batteries. A UPS is an investment. The batteries are easily replaceable and you can continue using the system for many, many years.

https://www.amazon.com/APC-Back-UPS-Battery-Protector-BR1500G/dp/B003Y24DEU
 

Inxsible

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I have started looking at line-interactive units as well in my search and found a decent APC SMT1500RM2U unit nearby. However NUT says :

upload_2018-9-18_11-2-54.png


What does this mean? Does it mean that the SMT1500RM2U is not fully supported by FreeNAS? All I need is for it to be recognized and start a graceful shutdown of 2 FreeNAS servers and 1 pfSense router.
 

Inxsible

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Another UPS that I found is the Eaton 5PX1500RT which shows the following on NUT:

upload_2018-9-18_13-27-46.png


So it would seem that the Eaton 5PX1500RT is better supported than the APC SMT1500RM2U
 

Inxsible

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I ended up buying a highly discounted NEW Eaton 5PX1500RTN since
  1. it is supported by NUT -- which is important since I need to use it with FreeBSD based solutions (FreeNAS & pfSense)
  2. it is 1440VA & 1440W which would more than suffice my need
  3. it is network enabled
  4. it is capable of Extended Runtime by adding a Battery Module(although the battery modules are pretty expensive). I might not even need this feature though as the unit itself is capable of doing what I need.
The unit cost me about $50-$80 more than a decent used(with new batteries) 1500VA UPS. Decent used ones with new batteries generally cost around $250. But I think it's worth it because it comes with the rails & the network card which you don't usually get in the used ones on ebay. It will get to me mid next week. Can't wait.

If anyone else is looking for an UPS then this would be a really great deal.

Eaton 5PX1500RTN -- $329.99
 
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