dj_jazzn
Dabbler
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2014
- Messages
- 31
But I have a nasty idea: write a script who loads the CPU in function of the drives temp :D
Edit: this reminds me that: https://xkcd.com/1172/
A sort of Rube Goldberg method...I like it:p
But I have a nasty idea: write a script who loads the CPU in function of the drives temp :D
Edit: this reminds me that: https://xkcd.com/1172/
My experience is that with adequate low speed fans running at their lowest speed (say 120mm or 140mm running at 600-800rpm) will provide enough airflow to keep the drive at or below 40C when the CPU is at or above 87% utilization and the disks are running 5 simultaneous high volume transfers (about as rough as it can get as it is five large sequential transfers started a few minutes apart so lots of seeking going on).Would it be possible to indirectly influence the fans speeds by lowering one or more of the temperature sensor thresholds? For example, the closest temperature sensor on the X10SL7-F to my HDD cages is the RT1 System sensor. Although not a direct measure of the disk temperature, could it be influenced by disk temperature and the direction of air flow through the case? Perhaps some experimenting is in order while stress testing the system.
Stellar documentation! Nice job.
After looking at the issues that the user in the thread had with the LSI controller dropping out during scubs I revised my cooling strategy and reinstalled the Noctus iPPC fans as they move more air and so will hopefully keep the LSI chip cooler.
Setting the fan threshold is where art meets science. The manufacturer's specifications are the starting point. What I found was there are variations within fans and the rated speeds are often out of tolerances. I suspect the amount of back pressure on the fans will slow them down and this will be due to the impedance of airflow and will vary based on the number of fans, their directions (pushing versus pulling) and how airtight the case itself is.I am in total agreement! This post has been a great resource for my own build.
I am curious to know where you set your fan threshold limits for the 140mm fans. I have also upgraded cooling and installed two NF-A14 fans. According to the Notua specs. the upper rotation speed is 3000±10% and MIN rotation speed is 800±20%.
I am currently using the following thresholds:
upper 3400 3500 3600
lower 300 400 500
It's actually fairly easy to spot quiet high airflow fans (as opposed to louder, static pressure -oriented fans): They have many small blades and they have an angle of attack oriented for the steady-state of "lots of air coming at me".One thing I didn't see you talk about, in what is an amazingly thorough thread, is the static pressure of fans. While I'm not a fan or physics expert (just starting physics 2), my understanding is for applications were the fan air flow flow is restricted, a fan with high static pressure will be superior to one designed to move the most air. From what I've read 120mm fans are better in general for this application as static pressure is increased by lowering fan diameter and increasing thickness. There are fans that particularly state they're high static pressure and are marketed for use with radiators although I couldn't tell you how much of that is marketing vs actual design optimization. Again, I don't much experience and I don't know what the performance differences would be, but I thought it might be of interest to someone researching this.
One thing I didn't see you talk about, in what is an amazingly thorough thread, is the static pressure of fans. While I'm not a fan or physics expert (just starting physics 2), my understanding is for applications were the fan air flow flow is restricted, a fan with high static pressure will be superior to one designed to move the most air. From what I've read 120mm fans are better in general for this application as static pressure is increased by lowering fan diameter and increasing thickness. There are fans that particularly state they're high static pressure and are marketed for use with radiators although I couldn't tell you how much of that is marketing vs actual design optimization. Again, I don't much experience and I don't know what the performance differences would be, but I thought it might be of interest to someone researching this.
As cyberjock says there are lots of inter dependencies and when you start getting into static pressure of fans and the airflow design it is quite technical and would greatly bloat something already really long (and when you start talking thermogodamnamics and physics the average persons eyes glaze over. My aim was to attempt to build a NAS with adequate cooling under heavy that was also reasonably quiet. I quickly came to the conclusion that there were too many variables and the only way to do this was to build, test, tweak, repeat.One thing I didn't see you talk about, in what is an amazingly thorough thread, is the static pressure of fans. While I'm not a fan or physics expert (just starting physics 2), my understanding is for applications were the fan air flow flow is restricted, a fan with high static pressure will be superior to one designed to move the most air. From what I've read 120mm fans are better in general for this application as static pressure is increased by lowering fan diameter and increasing thickness. There are fans that particularly state they're high static pressure and are marketed for use with radiators although I couldn't tell you how much of that is marketing vs actual design optimization. Again, I don't much experience and I don't know what the performance differences would be, but I thought it might be of interest to someone researching this.
In theory this might allow manual control of the chassis fans while the CPU fan is still controlled by the CPU temperature.The command for x10 is as below:
0x30 0x70 0x66 Fan Control Manually (X10)
Data1 0/1 (Get/Set)
Data2 0/1 Region
Data3 0-0x64 Duty cycle
Duty cycle is a percent in hex, therefore, max is 0x64, half is 0x32.
ipmitool raw 0x30 0x70 0x66 0x01 0x01 0x32
ipmitool raw 0x30 0x45 0x1 0x0 (Set Mode to Standard) ipmitool raw 0x30 0x45 0x1 0x1 (Set Mode to Full) ipmitool raw 0x30 0x45 0x1 0x2 (Set Mode to Optimal) ipmitool raw 0x30 0x45 0x1 0x4 (Set Mode to Heavy I/O) ipmitool raw 0x30 0x45 0x0 (Get Fan Mode)
Very interesting. It would remove the greatest complexity from an external arduino fan controller (the actual PWM hardware).I'm not certain if we need another thread for this but while trolling the SuperMicro Support FAQs on another issue I came across this FAQ: X10 Fan speed control by raw command
In theory this might allow manual control of the chassis fans while the CPU fan is still controlled by the CPU temperature.
A command like:
Code:ipmitool raw 0x30 0x70 0x66 0x01 0x01 0x32
should set the fans in region 2 to 50% PWM. Region 2 is likely the FAN-A header which is normally controlled by the Peripheral (Chassis Temp) sensor.
However, it is uncertain if this command will work in any fan mode (Standard/Full/Optimal/Heavy I/O) of if the fan mode must first be set to a mode that supports independent control of both zones (either Optimal or Heavy I/O) as outlined in this FAQ.
Code:ipmitool raw 0x30 0x45 0x1 0x0 (Set Mode to Standard) ipmitool raw 0x30 0x45 0x1 0x1 (Set Mode to Full) ipmitool raw 0x30 0x45 0x1 0x2 (Set Mode to Optimal) ipmitool raw 0x30 0x45 0x1 0x4 (Set Mode to Heavy I/O) ipmitool raw 0x30 0x45 0x0 (Get Fan Mode)
I have a bad disk in my ZFS3 array and when I get a replacement I will poke around a bit and report on the results. If this works it should allow a system to have the chassis fans forced to a adequate speed to keep the disks at or below a target temperature under their heaviest load.
The ultimate solution might involve building a Arduino-based controller with a thermistor that can be bonded to one of the disks which controls the chassis fans via PWM. I did a bit of research on this while helping another user out off-line and it looks promising.
You're welcomeThis is very throughout - it's an excellent read, thank you @GrumpyBear
I will definitely use this when setting up my build as I'll use an R5 case (which is literally the same). I wonder how much of this should be modified when using with an X9 board?!?
How much adjustment is required for an X9 series motherboard likely depends on the board and its components that generate heat, the modes supported by the fan controller and whether it has IPMI but the process should be the same (i.e. Monitor the HDD and System temperatures during 100% CPU and heavy disk activities to ensure the temperatures remain in a range you are comfortable with.
A big part is determining the best fans and the required IPMI thresholds for minimum speed. If the design objective is super quite then fans with a larger diameter supporting smaller minimum RPM (say 140mm versus 120mm and 300rpm versus 600rpm) might be best
I also found a wide variation in a fan's ability to move air based on the Static Pressure of the fans (higher is better) and significant variation in the upper speed of fans. Considering two fans with identical minimum speeds but differing maximum speeds the unit with the higher maximum speed will likely be noisier at lower PWM duty cycles but YMMV.
I'd aim for under 40. These drives, even at 5400rpm get hot when under load.I do want quiet as I don't have a cellar to hide the server but I don't want to sacrifice reliability either. Is there any sense to go for 30-33C for the HDDs (when stress tested) or a 37-39 is more of a reality (so when the system is near idle then it'll drop to 30-33C)?
The Cougar Vortex 140mm Fans I tried first worked OK. The temps were a little high but if you don't have a very hot SAS Controller on the motherboard like I did they may work well. They are not that much cheaper than the Noctua iPPC fans though. The Noctuuas are overkill somewhat but spending and extra $150 to protect $1500 - $3000 worth of hardware ... The Cougar fans are, IMHO, ugly and do not have the oomph the Noctuas or Delta Bearing Fans do. Most of the Linux-based appliances I deal with at work use tiny Delta Fans in 1U or 2U rack-chassis and sound like a jet engine when starting.I will keep this in mind.
What are the reliable brands for 140mm fans (apart from Noctua)?
That's Quite the processor. If you are just planning a simple NAS then it might be overkill. If your looking at virtualization and possible multi-processor then it might be OK. Others have more experience than I in this area. The last Multi-CPU system I built was a Dual Pentium 166 on a Tyan for Quake in 1996 :D. That processor has a TDP of 120W which is just under the TDP guideline of 140W max for that cooler but you should be OK as your not overclocking but if I was spending north of a grand on a CPU I'd probably go for a cooler designed for Server and Workstation use like the NH-U9DX i4 or the NH-U12DX i4 with a 120mm fan which should be quieter. Either of these should fit in the Define R5 no problem.I found a Noctua NH-D9L for my CPU. Is this enough or should I go for a bigger size fan (and sink) for a Xeon E5-2670?
The Cougar fans are, IMHO, ugly and do not have the oomph the Noctuas
if I was spending north of a grand on a CPU I'd probably go for a cooler designed for Server and Workstation use like the NH-U9DX i4 or the NH-U12DX i4 with a 120mm fan which should be quieter
Remember that all motherboards are usually only rated for 1.5A per fan header and that assumes that you are not using all the headers. Using a modified splitter for the chassis fans will mean just the CPU fan will draw off the motherboards 12V rail though so the usual limit of 3-4A total should handle a couple of fans on a CPU cooler easily.
Is my only option to purchase a splitter with molex connector (similar to what you linked)?
I would actually order two sets of cables as you need some extra fan connectors making the mod. Of course if you've got some extra laying around... ;)