X11SSM-F dressed up as a pig or no?

[Nakedape]

I'm trying to scrape together hardware for a RAIDZ2 FreeNAS box that will primarily be used as a fileserver in a small home network with a handful of users. My secondary goal is to be able to run a few jails, Plex, whatever. Maybe as a distant tertiary goal, it would be nice if I could upgrade e.g. the CPU and set up ESXi on the same hardware instead.

To avoid having the handful of users reduced to just me trying to figure out of she even took the car, I've decided to bite the bullet and buy some components second-hand from 'reputable' people on my local 'craiglist'-ish thing. I realize this is probably not the best idea, but it is, I think, this or nothing (which is apparently what I now call money). I've tried to skim through the HW Guide and other usual suspects, and jotted down some notes, but I'm still worried I might have made some serious misjudgements or bad trade-offs here and I'd appreciate if someone could point that out to me if that is the case.

If I could chose I'd buy only 16GB RAM for half the price, but they are sold together so no. Also I couldn't find the RAM on the Supermicro QVL.. so those are a no go then?

This is what I got on my drawing pad:

Type	Part	State	Price ($)
Motherboard	Supermicro X11SSM-F	New	265
CPU	Intel Core i3 6100	Used ("In good shape" or some such bs)	54
Memory	4 x Kingston 8GB DDR4 2133 MHZ Reg Dimm KVR21R15S4K4/32, KVR21R15S4K4/32I	Used ("RAM doesn't age so this is a excellent deal")	215
PSU	Seasonic Focus GX 550 550W	New	86
HDD	2 x 3TB WD Red NAS WD30EFRX	New	229
HDD	4 x 3TB WD Red NAS WD30EFRX	Used ("5k to 10k POH, used as backup, mostly idle")	354
Case	Fractal Design Node 804	New	128
		TOTAL	1331

Are there better ways to spend USD 1331? Should I do something different? What's the general take on used hardware around here? Any bananskins down the road? All comments welcome. Thanks.

 

[tfran1990]

I would say make sure you take some time to look around when buying ram, supermicro may say that only X part number works, but crucial will have a prt number that works with that mobo, same thing with Kingston. If possible i would def get the biggest stick of memory per slot now so you can max out the board.

You could also check out the build guides on the forum, you could def get something set up for less then 1331 .

 

[Johnnie Black]

That is registered RAM and won't work with that board, you need Unbuffered ECC.

 

[Nakedape]

Thanks. Big RAM sticks makes sense considering future upgrades, so thanks for that suggestion.

My apologies for adding that RAM as a last-minute stunt to complete the list. Fueled by FOMO on what is probably not good deals anyway I'm rushing a little bit here and should probably read more and type less.

Any thoughts on the second-hand 3TB WD hdds? I've tried to find evidence to back up the sellers claim that the fact that they've been sitting idle for most of the time (which I guess I'll have to take his word for?) means they have more life left in them than if they had been used in a heavy R/W environment, but both the MTBF figure and, by extension it seems, the Annualized Failure Rate rely on POH as the only (?) parameter. So whether or not they have been idle seems irrelevant, which is a little counter-intuitive to me.

 

[Nakedape]

From https://www.seagate.com/gb/en/support/kb/hard-disk-drive-reliability-and-mtbf-afr-174791en/:

AFR and MTBF specifications are based on the following assumptions for business critical storage system environments:

• 8,760 power-on-hours per year.
• 250 average motor start/stop cycles per year.
• Operations at nominal voltages.
• Systems will provide adequate cooling to ensure the case temperatures do not exceed 40°C. Temperatures outside the specifications in Section 2.9 will increase the product AFR and decrease MTBF.

(my bold)

I'm not sure what motor start/stop actually is, but perhaps its a clue?

Then there's this from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_disk_drive_failure

A 2007 study published by Google suggested very little correlation between failure rates and either high temperature or activity level. Indeed, the Google study indicated that "one of our key findings has been the lack of a consistent pattern of higher failure rates for higher temperature drives or for those drives at higher utilization levels.".

I don't know if that study has been refuted or what, but if the above excerpt is true then the idle argument does not hold very well imo.

 

[mistermanko]

My bigger concern would be if the disks are SMART-healty with no bad blocks. Plus, are they still after being shipped to you.
I've bought second hand WD Reds and was lucky enough to just have one out of six drives with pending sectors after they were shipped to me.
Although the seller claimed they were pristine, he even send smart screenshots.

 

[Nakedape]

My bigger concern would be if the disks are SMART-healty with no bad blocks. Plus, are they still after being shipped to you.
I've bought second hand WD Reds and was lucky enough to just have one out of six drives with pending sectors after they were shipped to me.
Although the seller claimed they were pristine, he even send smart screenshots.

There's no shipping involved in this case, except my reckless driving. But having read your post I think I'll insist on a money-back guarantee if any of them fail SMART test after delivery. Thanks.

 

[elorimer]

Amazon has the WD Red line on sale periodically. Today it's the 4tb ($90) and 10tb ($230) drives on sale So you could get 6 new 4tb drives for less than your bundle of used/new 3tbs.

 

[Newfoundland.Republic]

and I would get them now given the potential shortages with the COVID19 virus....

 

[mistermanko]

Us folks from Europe can only wish for these prices you guys in NA can get. The RED 4 TB is idleing at 110€ since november.

 

[Bozon]

Amazon has the WD Red line on sale periodically. Today it's the 4tb ($90) and 10tb ($230) drives on sale So you could get 6 new 4tb drives for less than your bundle of used/new 3tbs.

I'm not trying to high jack this thread, but I was looking at the Amazon deals that you mentioned. Out of curiosity, I clicked on the pro versions of the drive, and I noticed that an advertised difference between the 2 drives is that the Consumer was only recommended for NAS's with up to 8 drives while the Pro drives were recommended for NAS's up to 24 bays. How does the drive know, or is this a warranty marketing limitation, and not a technology limitation?

 

[elorimer]

Beyond the longer warranty and faster spin speed, I think it is said there is something in the Pros that does more vibration compensation, so supposedly able to be packed into rackmounts.

I guess the drive doesn't need to know what it is suitable for.

 

[Newfoundland.Republic]

Re: Red v. Red Pro - lots of Google search results: see https://nascompares.com/2016/05/10/should-you-buy-wd-red-pro-drives-or-ordinary-wd-red-nas-drives/

 

[Bozon]

Interesting, reading, I was wondering if the sata connectivity was "smurfed" such that more than 8 drives in a chassis couldn't be accessed, but it looks like more than 8 of the red amateurs, would be fine, but you would need to watch for vibration issues. Thanks.

 

[Nakedape]

I found the datasheets slightly more informative that the vacuous click-bait drivel on nascompares.com, especially re the vibration resistance of the respective types:

WD Red:

Noise and Vibration Protection: Designed to operate solo, desktop drives typically offer little or no protection from the noise and vibration present in a multi-drive system. WD Red drives are designed for multi-bay NAS systems.

WD Red Pro:

In a Network Attached Storage device, a desktop hard drive is not typically designed for NAS environments. WD Red Pro drives are equipped with a multi-axis shock sensor that automatically detects subtle shock events and dynamic fly height technology which adjusts each read-write function to compensate and protect the data. This combination of technology further protects the drives in larger 1 to 24 bay NAS environments and helps increase hard drive reliability.

So, it looks as if the Pro disks have accelerometers in the control loop that drives the R/W head, which for someone like me who knows nothing about HDDs is both surprising and kind of cool! Wow. I wonder though what the Red's vibration damping scheme is like? Is it just marketing speak for dampening rubber washers and/or gaskets or something of that nature? Has anyone taken their WD Red apart and looked?

[1] https://documents.westerndigital.co...et-western-digital-wd-red-hdd-2879-800002.pdf
[2] https://documents.westerndigital.co...estern-digital-wd-red-pro-hdd-2879-800022.pdf

 

[Nakedape]

Us folks from Europe can only wish for these prices you guys in NA can get. The RED 4 TB is idleing at 110€ since november.

Yeah, I was about to say. Btw, Random Dude just arrived and delivered the four used WD Red disks just now. At least they were in anti-static bags and he didn't stab me, which was about as much as I could have hoped for.

 

[John Doe]

my 2 cents:

go with big ram
+ you can upgrade
+ saves you power
- more expensive

i have this node case as well and i really hate it!
it is equipped with 7 discs and temps are going beyond 40 °C during replication task
(5 case fans!!!)
while on the motherboard side you have way too much space, the hard disc side is very tight. most of the time the side cover from HDD section is open :-(

so my recommendation is to go with those sharkoon vibe fixers and take a case with enough 5,25 slots, put some silverstone 180mm air penetrators in front and be happy with low temps and low noise

case with the big fans:

https://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/a-xblade-full-tower-case-a-xblade-page-3

it seem this brand is out of business

BTW: in case someone has a recommendation for me for a dust filter, i would appreciate!

 

[Bozon]

my 2 cents:

go with big ram
+ you can upgrade
+ saves you power
- more expensive

i have this node case as well and i really hate it!
it is equipped with 7 discs and temps are going beyond 40 °C during replication task
(5 case fans!!!)
while on the motherboard side you have way too much space, the hard disc side is very tight. most of the time the side cover from HDD section is open :-(

so my recommendation is to go with those sharkoon vibe fixers and take a case with enough 5,25 slots, put some silverstone 180mm air penetrators in front and be happy with low temps and low noise View attachment 36248

case with the big fans:

https://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/a-xblade-full-tower-case-a-xblade-page-3

it seem this brand is out of business

BTW: in case someone has a recommendation for me for a dust filter, i would appreciate!

He is talking about box fans, but the same principal could be applied to your computer fan system.

Shop Air Filter System VS Box Fan | Surprise

Sponsored by https://filterbuy.com/air-filter-sizes/ After spending many hours researching the effectiveness of using the box fan with a filter attached to t...

www.youtube.com

This place has many filter sizes.
https://filterbuy.com/air-filter-sizes/

 

[Newfoundland.Republic]

Maybe you could liquid cool the drives: https://koolance.com/help-hard-drive-coolers

 

[Nakedape]

my 2 cents:

go with big ram
+ you can upgrade
+ saves you power
- more expensive

i have this node case as well and i really hate it!
it is equipped with 7 discs and temps are going beyond 40 °C during replication task
(5 case fans!!!)
while on the motherboard side you have way too much space, the hard disc side is very tight. most of the time the side cover from HDD section is open :-(

so my recommendation is to go with those sharkoon vibe fixers and take a case with enough 5,25 slots, put some silverstone 180mm air penetrators in front and be happy with low temps and low noise [...]

Interesting. I hadn't contemplated that I could actually hate that case. Come to think of it I'm planning on stuffing the whole thing away behind a wall where I can't see it (or hear it much) anyway, so maybe I should rethink that one and start with something simple/bigger and cheap(er). A used case perhaps.. hmm.