Upgrading my NAS box

[Inxsible]

Hello,

I am planning on upgrading my box and I found this SuperChassis 846TQ-R900B for $190, but I was wondering about a couple of issues:

1. Do TQ backplanes provide SAS2 capability? The description only says SAS/SATA
2. This chassis was made for X8 series boards. I have a X9SCL-F which is microATX. I know the description says it will fit microATX, but I wanted to confirm in case the screw alignments are different.

Another option I found was SuperChassis 826BE16-R1K28WB which is a JBOD chassis for $240. So I am not sure if it will allow me to put in my X9SCL-F board in there. Also this option is more expensive than the first even though this is a 2U chassis compared to 4U for the 1st option


Should I continue looking for other options?

Thanks,

 

[danb35]

Do TQ backplanes provide SAS2 capability? The description only says SAS/SATA

TQ backplanes provide no logic at all--you need to plug in an individual SATA cable to the back of the backplane for each bay. I'd strongly discourage using a 4U TQ unit, as cabling will be a rats' nest. Even in a 2U (which I've used) it isn't pretty.

 

[Chris Moore]

• Do TQ backplanes provide SAS2 capability? The description only says SAS/SATA

• This chassis was made for X8 series boards. I have a X9SCL-F which is microATX. I know the description says it will fit microATX, but I wanted to confirm in case the screw alignments are different.

The 24 bay server that I have at home was exactly as you describe. It actually still had the X8 board in it and I pulled it out and put my X9 series board in. It worked with very minimal effort on my part. The only problem I ran into was that the power cables to the system board were a little short. I bought extenders and it worked out.
Like @danb35 said, the SATA cabling to the backplane can be a pain. What I did was use two of these SAS expander cards:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-46M0997-ServeRAID-Expansion-Adapter-16-Port-SAS-Expander/122281398896
I connected 12 drive bays to each expander using these thin cables:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-SAS-t...reakout-Internal-Cable-3-28-Feet/311689047579
Because these cables are thin, they are a little fragile, so handle with care and the nest isn't so bad, but it is a lot of wire.
You can run the whole thing from a single SAS controller. I used a Dell H310 like this one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-H310-...ZFS-FreeNAS-unRAID-High-Air-Flow/162834671120

Also this option is more expensive than the first even though this is a 2U chassis compared to 4U for the 1st option

I would go with either a 3U or 4U chassis because it is easier to get quiet CPU coolers that fit in that space.

 

[Inxsible]

@danb35 & @Chris Moore

Thank you. The cabling is one thing I was kinda/sorta afraid of. The seller was claiming SAS2 capability in the ad but deep down mentioned TQ backplane. So I messaged him to get the exact backplane model number in case he has swapped it in the original case. I doubt it though. I will scour the interwebs for a chassis with an expander backplane.

 

[Chris Moore]

@danb35 & @Chris Moore

Thank you. The cabling is one thing I was kinda/sorta afraid of. The seller was claiming SAS2 capability in the ad but deep down mentioned TQ backplane. So I messaged him to get the exact backplane model number in case he has swapped it in the original case. I doubt it though. I will scour the interwebs for a chassis with an expander backplane.

You will need to spend a bit more for the SAS2 expander backplane. Plenty of them available, but they are still in demand.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk

 

[Chris Moore]

This is the best price I could find for a complete chassis that includes the SAS2 expander backplane.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Supermicro...BPN-SAS2-846EL1-24x-TRAYS-NO-PWS/382277186258

If I didn't already have one of these, I might go for it myself:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Server-Che...NEW-in-Box-New-Rail-Kit-Included/263519436540

I happen to know that this guy will take $350 for one of these...

 

[Inxsible]

I was just wondering... if there was single SAS2 card that can support all 24 drives from a single connection? And if so, are there breakout cables available that have a 1 --> 24 breakout? Meaning the 1 end goes into the SAS card and the other 24 ends each go in to the backplane for each drive.

This could probably reduce the amount of cabling as the 24 ends will only be on the backplane side and will need to be attached only once. Then I could possibly go with a TQ backplane with 24 drives.

 

[danb35]

if there was single SAS2 card that can support all 24 drives from a single connection?

I don't believe so. First, I'm not aware of any cards that run 24 channels (the most I'm aware of is 16); second, I'm not aware of any standard connector that would support that many. Even with a -16i card, you'd still need 4x breakout cables to use all those channels. And even if there were such an animal, it would probably cost more than the cost delta for a -E16 backplane.

 

[Inxsible]

I don't believe so. First, I'm not aware of any cards that run 24 channels (the most I'm aware of is 16); second, I'm not aware of any standard connector that would support that many. Even with a -16i card, you'd still need 4x breakout cables to use all those channels. And even if there were such an animal, it would probably cost more than the cost delta for a -E16 backplane.

True. I guess I was just day dreaming.

 

[Chris Moore]

I was just wondering... if there was single SAS2 card that can support all 24 drives from a single connection? And if so, are there breakout cables available that have a 1 --> 24 breakout? Meaning the 1 end goes into the SAS card and the other 24 ends each go in to the backplane for each drive.

The thing you ask for is the reason that SAS Expander backplanes exist. You are not the only one that desires this, and it is because it is so desirable that the chassis that do it are more expensive. You can save a little money with the TQ backplane, and I did that with three servers, but the latest server I bought has expander backplanes because it is so much easier.
https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/my-new-48-bay-build.61223/

 

[Inxsible]

Another thing I have been seeing on ebay is that many sellers have different PSU in the chassis than what the chassis came with. The chassis is 836-920B, but he says the psu is 700W. I have asked the seller to clarify. But it seems he removed the platinum rated 920W and replaced them with 700W non 80plus rated.

So, how important should the 80plus rating be when you are purchasing Supermicro hardware?

 

[Chris Moore]

Another thing I have been seeing on ebay is that many sellers have different PSU in the chassis than what the chassis came with. The chassis is 836-920B, but he says the psu is 700W. I have asked the seller to clarify. But it seems he removed the platinum rated 920W and replaced them with 700W non 80plus rated.

So, how important should the 80plus rating be when you are purchasing Supermicro hardware?

What they are doing is putting a cheaper power supply in the chassis and selling the better power supply separately to make more money. Places that do that are trying to maximize their profit at your expense. I would look elsewhere.
The platinum rated supply will run cooler and make less noise.

 

[Inxsible]

What they are doing is putting a cheaper power supply in the chassis and selling the better power supply separately to make more money. Places that do that are trying to maximize their profit at your expense. I would look elsewhere.
The platinum rated supply will run cooler and make less noise.

Yup, I gathered as much.

The seller replied and said he'd include the 920W but with an upcharge of $125. That makes the price too high IMO. I am thinking of telling him to keep his 700W and reduce the price by 40-50 bucks. Then buy the gold rated PSU separately. But I would need to be sure which PSUs would fit in that chassis.

 

[Chris Moore]

Should I continue looking for other options?

What price range are you looking at?

 

[Inxsible]

@Chris Moore I was looking at about $200 -- for the chassis + quality PSUs (at least 80Plus Gold rated)

On a side note, I was thinking that since I am doing an upgrade, would it make sense to go Hyper-V this time. Note that I have 0 experience with ESXi.

I have this server lying around. The config is listed in the first post in the linked thread. Currently I am using it only as a test bed for different OSes etc. I could also possibly use the LSI card that I got with that server to pass the disks to ESXi

1. Would this work? How many disks would I be able to pass through?
2. Can I still use a 24 bay server to pass all the disks to ESXi? Can I use some of those disks solely for FreeNAS, and some others for my other VMs?

If I go the ESXi route, here's what I am thinking of doing:

1. FreeNAS VM (Emby, Transmission, Couchpotato) -- i.e. move my current setup into a VM basically
2. 2 or 3 "desktop" VMs running Archlinux (to be accessed by a chromebook/laptop). Each member of my family can have 1 dedicated VM for their use.
3. 1 Windows 7 VM -- because I have a licensed Win 7 Home install disk lying around
4. Home Automation VM -- this is not immediate need, but something I'd like to tinker with.

Only 1 & 5(if i do create a Home Automation VM) need to run 24/7. The other VMs will be pulled up as required. Would my board X9SCL-F + Xeon E3-1240 + 32GB of RAM be sufficient for all of this? Remember, not all VMs will run simultaneously. Or do you think I would need a bigger and better board (possibly a board with dual CPUs)?

If my existing board+CPU+ 32GB RAM is sufficient, then I have 2 questions:

• Can I use the server as is - in the existing 1U chassis and add a JBOD unit with an external SAS2 connection? (JBOD chassis seem to be cheaper than server chassis with a SAS2 backplane)
• Or can I buy a TQ based server chassis, as all disks are passed to ESXi instead of to FreeNAS directly?

 

[Inxsible]

I am able to get a 2U JBOD chassis(SC826BE16-R1K28WB) for $240 with redundant PSUs and a 2U server chassis(SC826BE16-R1K28LPB) for $300 with the same redundant PSUs locally. Both chassis are very similar in the 826 series with the same 1028W PSUs

With the JBOD, I can have 4 (from the 1U server)+12 drives whereas with the server chassis I would have only 12 drives. What would be a better option?

@Chris Moore, I know that you propose going 3U or 4U, but from everything that I have searched on craigslist/offerup/letgo/ebay, 4U seems to be a bit out of my reach :(

 

[Chris Moore]

I am able to get a 2U JBOD chassis(SC826BE16-R1K28WB) for $240

and a 2U server chassis(SC826BE16-R1K28LPB) for $300

$240
+ $300
= $540 ... and 2 chassis at 2U each is still 4U.

This chassis is 4U and I happen to know for sure, because I bought one, that the seller will accept $350 for it and it is quiet enough that I have it in my office about 8 feet from my desk with 36 drives installed and room for 16 more.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Server-Chenbro-48-Bay-Top-Loader-4U-Chassis-NEW-in-Box/253503074088

 

[Inxsible]

$240
+ $300
= $540 ... and 2 chassis at 2U each is still 4U.

This chassis is 4U and I happen to know for sure, because I bought one, that the seller will accept $350 for it and it is quiet enough that I have it in my office about 8 feet from my desk with 36 drives installed and room for 16 more.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Server-Chenbro-48-Bay-Top-Loader-4U-Chassis-NEW-in-Box/253503074088

No no no, I am not buying both. Only 1 of them.

I already have a 1U chassis 813MTQ that currently houses my X9SCL-F. The options I listed were :

1. Using my exisitng 813MTQ as the server + a 2U JBOD giving me 16 bays
   
2. Buying a server chassis and transplanting the X9SCL-F into it (and maybe selling off the 1U chassis) giving me 12 bays.

 

[Inxsible]

Yet another option is to buy a 846TQ chassis for $190 and then add a HP SAS expander card to it. That would be the cheapest option to get 24 drives - but it still doesn't solve the cabling mess with 24 SATA cables going into the expander card.

 

[Chris Moore]

Buying a server chassis and transplanting the X9SCL-F into it

Why not buy the 4U chassis and transplant into it? That would give you a lot more bays to work with.