BUILD Updated build thoughts?

[Something]

Current build (PCPartPicker list)
CPU - Intel Core i3-4370 3.8GHz Dual-Core Processor
CPU cooler - Noctua NH-L9x65 33.8 CFM
Motherboard - MSI Z87M GAMING Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard
RAM - G.Skill Sniper Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1866 Memory
HDs - 2x Western Digital Red 4TB 3.5" 5900RPM Internal Hard Drive
Case - Silverstone GD07B (Black) HTPC Case
PSU - SeaSonic X Series 400W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular Fanless ATX Power Supply
Disk drive - Samsung SH-224DB/RSBS DVD/CD Writer (not really needed but I have it left in for now)
FreeNAS boot drive - SanDisk Ultra Fit™ CZ43 32GB USB 3.0 Low-Profile Flash Drive (not included in the PCPP list)

Having made the foolish mistake to not include ECC in my original build (and learned the error of my ways...why couldn't it have been something less silly?) i'd like to take this opportunity to make some upgrades. 2 more HDs, a UPS and possibly some better cooling (for the hard drives?). The UPS needs to either be tall and slim or wide and flat due to space constraints. If it's tall and slim, I have ~4.2" of space. If it's wide and flat, I have ~5" of space for the UPS + cords (to stick upward). I haven't looked around too much and truth be told, I don't quite know what I need in this regard. I'll cover main component replacement lower.

My NAS is situated in a fairly enclosed space (I try and take some time to regularly enough clean the dust out) and I don't have room to stuff it elsewhere (while maintaining an ethernet connection to my network) which keehauls some of my other options with dedicating my NAS to pure storage and having a more dedicated box to handle computational needs.

Upgrades (PCPartPicker list)
HDs - 2x Western Digital Red 4TB 3.5" 5900RPM Internal Hard Drive
UPS - CyberPower CP1350AVRLCD UPS

For the 4 drives i'm thinking of doing 2 mirrored pools. Presently, my NAS is being used for backups.

As for ECC and the main internal components...

I am currently setting up (at least one) game server in a jail (for now) and i'll later see about virtualizing it, along with at least one linux distro as a testbed for code. I have yet to get around to putting OwnCloud together but having decided on that, i'm adamant about using that to make life easier with transferring files to friends. I'm not 100% on what i'll do from there, i'm nowhere near fully tapping into what I can do with my NAS.

Since I need to replace the motherboard and RAM and my needs seem to be going beyond an i3, i'm thinking that I should replace the CPU with an E3 as well.

Main component upgrades (PCPartPicker list)
CPU - Intel Xeon E3-1231 V3 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor
Motherboard - Supermicro X10SLL-F Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard
RAM - 2x Crucial 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory

If it comes to the point that moving up from an E3 is needed either for performance or going beyond 32GBs, I think i'll be better served upgrading then, as DDR4 ECC still carries an atrocious premium to it as best I can find and I want to avoid feature creep. Would 32GBs be enough for my present needs with a bit of room for later growth?

The fully upgraded system would look like this.

Show

Build (list)
CPU - Intel Xeon E3-1231 V3 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor
CPU cooler - Noctua NH-L9x65 33.8 CFM
Motherboard - Supermicro X10SLL-F Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard
RAM - 2x Crucial 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory
HDs - 4x Western Digital Red 4TB 3.5" 5900RPM Internal Hard Drive
Case - Silverstone GD07B (Black) HTPC Case
PSU - SeaSonic X Series 400W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular Fanless ATX Power Supply
Disk drive - Samsung SH-224DB/RSBS DVD/CD Writer (not really needed but I have it left in for now)
FreeNAS boot drive - SanDisk Ultra Fit™ CZ43 32GB USB 3.0 Low-Profile Flash Drive (not included in the PCPP list)
UPS - CyberPower CP1350AVRLCD UPS

Thoughts? Thank you.

 

[Ericloewe]

For the 4 drives i'm thinking of doing 2 z1 pools.

Wait a minute there - proper terminology is important.
If you mean the RAID5 equivalent, RAIDZ1, you can't do that. RAIDZ1 requires three drives at least.
If you mean the RAID1 equivalent, mirrors, all is well (except for your terminology). I'm not sure two pools are the solution I'd choose, but that's for you to decide.

I haven't heard much, but would it be efficient to use an SSD in the L2arc to make up for RAM deficiencies?

Nope, definitely not at 32GB of RAM. 64GB is generally the minimum where an L2ARC can be considered.

 

[Darren Myers]

Your current build i see with an i3, gaming motherboard, i3, and a current 16Gb of non ECC RAM. You started with x2 4Tb hdds, and are now adding another 2 harddrives + an APC is that correct?

Going off what @Ericloewe said i think some clarification is needed on your intent for storage.

 

[Nick2253]

I think your links are wrong, because what you are saying in your post doesn't seem to jive with the builds you've posted.

Also, if you want better feedback on your build, it's a lot easier for us to see your build if you just put it in your post directly. Yes, I know, pasting the link is easier, but it really doesn't take more than a few minutes, and it goes a long way to correcting any misunderstandings, and helping us help you.

 

[Something]

Wait a minute there - proper terminology is important.
If you mean the RAID5 equivalent, RAIDZ1, you can't do that. RAIDZ1 requires three drives at least.
If you mean the RAID1 equivalent, mirrors, all is well (except for your terminology). I'm not sure two pools are the solution I'd choose, but that's for you to decide.


Nope, definitely not at 32GB of RAM. 64GB is generally the minimum where an L2ARC can be considered.

Apologies, 2 mirrored pools (so 2 sets of RAID1 to put it traditionally). I want to be able to keep the data of the zpool should one drive fail and be able to hotswap in another.

As I understand it, when it comes to zfs if I want to expand a pool from one drive (IE for mirroring or RAIDZ#) I have to wipe all drives in the process. As a result I don't think I can even consider using RAIDZ1/2 with 4 drives as the present data I don't want to lose nor buy excess disks presently for temporary storage.

I'll use any extra SSDs I come into for other purposes then, cheers!

Your current build i see with an i3, gaming motherboard, i3, and a current 16Gb of non ECC RAM. You started with x2 4Tb hdds, and are now adding another 2 harddrives + an APC is that correct?

Yes! Beyond that, i'll be replacing the i3, motherboard and 16GBs with some supermicro board, an E3 (i'm thinking that would be best) and 32GBs of ECC. I'll be fixing up my original post with the full details.

Going off what @Ericloewe said i think some clarification is needed on your intent for storage.

The storage will mainly be for backup purposes. I have laptops and a desktop/workstation (both OS X and Windows, so CIFS and AFP) to backup to it. I've considered having the mobile devices backup to it but that seems like more of a nightmare than it's worth presently. Perhaps in the future.

Beyond that, jails/VMs for a Linux distro (possibly several, not all necessarily online simultaneously but that is possible, would it be possible to have them all share the same storage space and interact on the same files simultaneously?) to act as a testbad for code, game server(s), and my VOIP stuff.

I think your links are wrong, because what you are saying in your post doesn't seem to jive with the builds you've posted.

Sorry, it does appear a bit confusing, I cleared it up.

Also, if you want better feedback on your build, it's a lot easier for us to see your build if you just put it in your post directly. Yes, I know, pasting the link is easier, but it really doesn't take more than a few minutes, and it goes a long way to correcting any misunderstandings, and helping us help you.

Good point, will change that. And, it's done.

 

[ChriZ]

Do you need the i3-4370 for a different build?
Asking because you can use it and save yourself the $242...

 

[Something]

Do you need the i3-4370 for a different build?
Asking because you can use it and save yourself the $242...

I'll be passing that one along to a friend. Though, if an i3 4370 is conceivably enough for multiple VMs/jails hosting games, compilers, etc... and handling backups, I can still institute a change of plans.

 

[danb35]

As I understand it, when it comes to zfs if I want to expand a pool from one drive (IE for mirroring or RAIDZ#) I have to wipe all drives in the process.

This isn't correct, really. To expand a pool, you have two basic options: (1) add a vdev to the pool, or (2) replace all the disks in at least one of the pool's vdevs with larger disks (assuming those disks were all the same size to begin with). In no case do you need to wipe any, much less all, drives in the pool, and the capacity is pretty much seamlessly added to the pool. For more detail, consult @cyberjock's guide (linked in @Ericloewe's sig above).

 

[Something]

This isn't correct, really. To expand a pool, you have two basic options: (1) add a vdev to the pool, or (2) replace all the disks in at least one of the pool's vdevs with larger disks (assuming those disks were all the same size to begin with). In no case do you need to wipe any, much less all, drives in the pool, and the capacity is pretty much seamlessly added to the pool. For more detail, consult @cyberjock's guide (linked in @Ericloewe's sig above).

I often forget how large the learning curve is on ZFS :/. Thank you.

 

[Nick2253]

Make sure you understand the difference between vdev and zpool: the vdev is the hardware group of disks (like the raid array), and the zpool is the data which lives on one or more vdevs.

You can easily expand a pool by adding more vdevs, but you can't easily expand a vdev by adding more HDDs. You can, however, grow a vdev by replacing the hard drives in a vdev with larger hard drives.

If you want to go the RAID10 route, you can actually grow that pretty easily: simply add multiple mirrored vdevs to a pool, and the data will be stripped across those mirrors.

 

[ChriZ]

Well, actually ZFS supports "converting" a single drive pool into a mirrored drive pool.
For any other conversion you need to destroy the pool.

 

[Darren Myers]

Also keep in mind if youre doing RAIDz1 with x2 2 disk pools, and you decide to grow it...if you using large hdds like 4Tb or 6Tb drives, youre gonna have a bad time...RAIDz1 isnt really recommended anymore due to the size of disks and the potential for an issue/error to occur while reslivering such a large disk(s)

 

[danb35]

@ChriZ, I assume you're focusing on @Something's "if I want to expand a pool from one drive...", and that's a good point. There's no way to turn a single-disk pool into a RAIDZ pool without simply creating a new pool. However, it's certainly possible to expand it by simply adding more drives. They'll be striped together, so there won't be any redundancy, but if he's using a single-disk pool, he clearly doesn't care about redundancy in the first place.

 

[ChriZ]

@danb35 : yes I was referring to that part of the post.
What i meant, though, is not that he can add a second drive to a single drive pool and create a stripe of two drives, (he can do it if he only cares about speed, of course), but that he can also attach a drive to a single drive pool and create a mirror.
Not sure though, if he can only do it in CLI...

 

[danb35]

What i meant, though, is not that he can add a second drive to a single drive pool and create a stripe of two drives, (he can do it if he only cares about speed, of course), but that he can also attach a drive to a single drive pool and create a mirror.

I understand that, but both are true--though the mirror can currently only be done through the CLI.

 

[ChriZ]

Yeap, I looked a bit into it after my last post and if I am not mistaken, it will be possible using the gui in upcoming freenas 10.

 

[Something]

Any thoughts then on my hardware upgrades besides the hard drives? I think for now two zpools with 2 vdevs for my 4TB WD Reds is where I should go. I don't have enough drives to make RAIDZ2/3 setups viable. Or would RAIDZ2 be a sensible choice with 4-6 4TB drives?

Make sure you understand the difference between vdev and zpool: the vdev is the hardware group of disks (like the raid array), and the zpool is the data which lives on one or more vdevs.

You can easily expand a pool by adding more vdevs, but you can't easily expand a vdev by adding more HDDs. You can, however, grow a vdev by replacing the hard drives in a vdev with larger hard drives

Okay now i'm getting it, the abstraction clicked. vdevs for each drive, zpools to organize the drives. So long as the vdevs are maintained, drive failures aren't a (likely) concern.

As long as each drive is a vdev, I can change the zpool as I see fit (within some limitations). IE adding vdevs to a RAIDZ2/3 zpool or taking an existing (striped/stand alone) drive/vdev that is its own zpool and adding a second vdev to the pool for mirroring without losing existing data in the pool.

Assuming a RAIDz2 pool with 4 drives (or 2 mirrored drives) . If a drive fails, the vdev isn't necessarily compromised and neither is the zpool (my data). If the vdev fails, the drive isn't necessarily compromised but the zpool (my data) is. Correct?

If you want to go the RAID10 route, you can actually grow that pretty easily: simply add multiple mirrored vdevs to a pool, and the data will be stripped across those mirrors.

Not sure on that front, would you recommend it?

Well, actually ZFS supports "converting" a single drive pool into a mirrored drive pool.
For any other conversion you need to destroy the pool.

Okay good, I ask because in the future I may have drives that do not require redundancy that i'd like to mirror the drive without wiping the drive.

Also keep in mind if youre doing RAIDz1 with x2 2 disk pools, and you decide to grow it...if you using large hdds like 4Tb or 6Tb drives, youre gonna have a bad time...RAIDz1 isnt really recommended anymore due to the size of disks and the potential for an issue/error to occur while reslivering such a large disk(s)

Think at this point I won't be considered RAIDZ1 or RAIDz2 at any point soon. Not sure that'd cater to my needs.

@danb35 : yes I was referring to that part of the post.
What i meant, though, is not that he can add a second drive to a single drive pool and create a stripe of two drives, (he can do it if he only cares about speed, of course), but that he can also attach a drive to a single drive pool and create a mirror.
Not sure though, if he can only do it in CLI...

I understand that, but both are true--though the mirror can currently only be done through the CLI.

I'm no stranger to a CLI now. Spent far too much of my life fearing it, now it's a comfortable second home.

I'm not concerned with drive speed, it's why i've opted for Reds over Red Pros or REs. Maxing a gigabit connection as is will be plenty for me. Theoretically, far down the line (4-6 years), when 10GbE is more common/affordable/supported i'll keep such an option in mind.

Yeap, I looked a bit into it after my last post and if I am not mistaken, it will be possible using the gui in upcoming freenas 10.

Ooh neat!

 

[Darren Myers]

RAIDz2 would be my preferred setup, and most other users here i *think* will agree due to the use of larger drives. RAIDz2 using x4 4Tb hdds, you'd get ~6.2Tb of usable space (including the 80% max to fill to), that might be the best course of action as x2 RAIDz1's with 2 4Tb drives each gives you usable space of ~3.1Tb....But a worse fault tolerance and the possibility to loose data due to a failure and resliver of a drive. But of course making a RAIDz2 requires you to move all your data, destroy the pool, and remake it

 

[Something]

I would either be doing RAIDZ2 with all 4 drives in one zpool or RAID1/mirroring of 2 drives in two zpools.

Or to put it traditionally. RAID6 with 4 drives or 2 independent configurations of RAID0 (two drives).

What benefit is there to a RAIDz2 setup for me? I'm not too concerned with drive performance and don't believe that will be an issue given my uses (see first post).

 

[ChriZ]

In a 4drive raidz2 pool you can lose any 2 drives and data stays intact.
In a two mirrored pairs zpool (two raid1s which create a raid10, in traditional raid naming), you can afford to lose 2 drives, but not from the same mirror.
In this aspect a raidz2 using 4 drives is safer. But due to huge waste of space, the best raidz2 to begin with is a 6drive one.