Supermicro A2SDi-H-TP4F 16 Core SoC

[ullbeking]

I'm considering building a lightweight NAS and lightweight virtualization host based on this board: Supermicro A2SDi-H-TP4F 16 Core SoC (https://www.servethehome.com/supermicro-a2sdi-h-tp4f-review/) but I have no idea about hardware compatability. Has anybody looked to see if it will work with minimal fuss? https://www.supermicro.nl/products/motherboard/atom/A2SDi-H-TP4F.cfm Either this board or one of its relatives.

Please see my quote in this message for the sort of things I'm trying to achieve: https://forums.freenas.org/index.ph...de-discussion-thread.46494/page-6#post-399399

This is for a home server, so it needs to be quiet, etc.

 

[Stux]

No body knows yet. It should work with minimal fuss. If it doesn't work, a bug report should get it fixed.

 

[Ericloewe]

At this point, even the NIC has been out in the wild for a few months (I guess that's the advantage of making us wait so long...), so I expect full compatibility.

 

[averyfreeman]

Me likey...

 

[csmall]

Thanks for pointing this out. I'm looking for a motherboard CPU combo for a build and this one looks great.

Would this CPU be any good for transcoding/plex?

 

[averyfreeman]

Serve the home has a good review of it here:

https://www.servethehome.com/supermicro-a2sdi-h-tp4f-review/

There's also more comprehensive benchmarks here of the processor:

https://www.servethehome.com/intel-atom-c3955-16-core-top-end-linux-benchmarks-review/

Sounds like it'll be about 2x as fast as the avoton chips and marginally faster than the Xeon D-1541 for most tasks (probably due to having 16 cores). It does it all at considerably less TDP, too - Apparently their measurements were 30w idle 53w 100% load. They mention it can compete with high-performance chips, which is astounding for an atom (Xeon D can compete, too, but at about 2x the power consumption).

Too bad it's going to be expensive. Whatever happened to atoms being for cheap, throwaway netbooks to give to children in 3rd world countries? My, how times have changed...

 

[Stux]

Sounds like it'll be about 2x as fast as the avoton chips and marginally faster than the Xeon D-1541 for most tasks (probably due to having 16 cores). It does it all at considerably less TDP, too - Apparently their measurements were 30w idle 53w 100% load. They mention it can compete with high-performance chips, which is astounding for an atom (Xeon D can compete, too, but at about 2x the power consumption).

I'm looking forward to seeing some transcode benchmarks. I expect the lack of AVX will make a big difference, but I'd like to see it tested. I'm assuming that Plex uses AVX.

 

[csmall]

I'm not sure how I feel about gigabyte but they also have a board out with this cpu and a unique feature of an embedded flash intended for OS installs for things like FreeNAS an esxi etc..

http://b2b.gigabyte.com/Server-Motherboard/MA10-ST0-rev-11#ov

 

[csmall]

Looks like this board will be a little under 900 bucks.

 

[csmall]

I'm told this board will be available between September 20-22

 

[religiouslyconfused]

I would not mind a lower power one that can be used for a pfSense box.

 

[csmall]

I would not mind a lower power one that can be used for a pfSense box.

The previous supermicro atom boards are great for firewalls. I prefer OPNsense. :)

 

[averyfreeman]

Looks like this board will be a little under 900 bucks.

I got a X9SPU-F on ebay for $35 a few months ago... they're probably pretty comparable. Throw a 1230v2 in there for like $150 and enjoy for over a decade until your slightly higher energy costs finally equalize the price difference...

Seriously, this new stuff is cool, but it's crazy expensive... My X9SCL-F was only $150 when it was new. What gives?

Put an x4 PCIE m.2 converter in a slot, grab an EVO 960 for your SLOG or VMs, an LSI 9210-8i off ebay for $50 and it's basically just like a new rig.

You can even boot off an m.2 on older machines using Clover if you want to use one for a desktop. FreeNAS and ESXi boot off USB drives, so that's obviously not an issue there...

 

[averyfreeman]

The previous supermicro atom boards are great for firewalls. I prefer OPNsense. :)

LOL. My pfSense box is a Lenovo J1800 motherboard I got off eBay NEW for $15 and threw in an old ATX case from the late '90s I had lying around.

When I feed the beast, I pull through the drive-thru and let it order off the value menu ;)

 

[ullbeking]

I'm not sure how I feel about gigabyte but they also have a board out with this cpu and a unique feature of an embedded flash intended for OS installs for things like FreeNAS an esxi etc..

http://b2b.gigabyte.com/Server-Motherboard/MA10-ST0-rev-11#ov

I'm very interested in this one too. I may even prefer it over the SM C3000. SM have a reputation for providing enterprise-class hardware.

What is the situation with Gigabyte? Are they up to it? Not only in terms of technology, but also sales, after-sales support contracts, warranty, etc. I've similarly been wondering about ASRock Rack. My impression is that they are equivalent to prosumer audio equipment, i.e., very good, but not quite up there with Supermicro, Tyan, and their ilk.

 

[ullbeking]

I got a X9SPU-F on ebay for $35 a few months ago... they're probably pretty comparable. Throw a 1230v2 in there for like $150 and enjoy for over a decade until your slightly higher energy costs finally equalize the price difference...

Seriously, this new stuff is cool, but it's crazy expensive... My X9SCL-F was only $150 when it was new. What gives?

Put an x4 PCIE m.2 converter in a slot, grab an EVO 960 for your SLOG or VMs, an LSI 9210-8i off ebay for $50 and it's basically just like a new rig.

You can even boot off an m.2 on older machines using Clover if you want to use one for a desktop. FreeNAS and ESXi boot off USB drives, so that's obviously not an issue there...

Thanks for the reality check. I agree for the most part.

At first I was obsessed with the Xeon-D, in large part because it's mini-ITX and I was convinced I could build a silent, cool, and high-performing NAS server. Mini-iTX server hardware is popular these days. Many people really love SFF machines.

Now the Xeon-D is old news as far as I'm concerned. I'm still very excited about the C3000.

In terms of raw performance, cost, and basic functionality, these new boards hold a LOT more RAM. My X9SCM-F (E3-1270v2) maxes out at 32 GB, but you can fit up to 128 GB of RAM in a mini-ITX Xeon-D SoC. Also, these new systems come pre-loaded with all those features you would need to buy adapter boards for anyway (m.2 converters, SAS controller).

In favour of these new and Xeon-D and Atom C3000 SoCs, they already have many great features directly integrated into the board, and everything is ready to go! No need to spend a long time researching m.2 converter cards, or trying to find out that fits two m.2 SSDs on the one PCIe board.

The new machines use less power, but on the other hand you load them up with a dozen SDDs and the power saved will get washed out in the figures. I would also expect them to be a little easier to keep cool and quiet (as long as you don't jam them into tiny little enclosures which, I understand, tend to have the opposite effect). Some airflow is a good thing :) I believe the ideal is when you can get passive chassive airflow and a small quiet CPU cooler.

 

[averyfreeman]

I'm very interested in this one too. I may even prefer it over the SM C3000. SM have a reputation for providing enterprise-class hardware.

What is the situation with Gigabyte? Are they up to it? Not only in terms of technology, but also sales, after-sales support contracts, warranty, etc. I've similarly been wondering about ASRock Rack. My impression is that they are equivalent to prosumer audio equipment, i.e., very good, but not quite up there with Supermicro, Tyan, and their ilk.

Gigabyte - not sure about warranty, I've only had one board from them before. It had a x16 PCIE slot crap out on me within a week, so the warranty was managed by Newegg, not Gigabyte. They're supposedly nice, but to me they just look like they're more expensive than SM when it comes to server stuff.

The AsRock stuff looks nice, too. I've had several AsRock boards, two of them needed warranty and their warranty system was pain-free. Unfortunately you have to pay to send the board there, but return shipping is free, so it's not so bad. Tracking progress online is surprisingly detailed, explaining what stage of the process they're at in the ticket, and communication / response times are excellent (was always within 24hrs).

Never had to warranty anything from SM. Maybe that's saying something... personally they'd be my first choice, but with some of the interesting stuff AsRock Rack is coming out with, I might check them out eventually if they had something really unique I couldn't find in an SM board. I'll probably steer clear of GB myself, but wouldn't fault anyone for giving them a shot.

 

[averyfreeman]

Thanks for the reality check. I agree for the most part.

At first I was obsessed with the Xeon-D, in large part because it's mini-ITX and I was convinced I could build a silent, cool, and high-performing NAS server. Mini-iTX server hardware is popular these days. Many people really love SFF machines.

Yeah, it's true, ITX has its advantages. Space is limited and if I were doing a high-availability cluster now that 3.5" HDDs are much faster and can be upwards of 12TB, I'd definitely consider making some little maxed-out boxes. When I got my X9SCL-F in 2011 the biggest HDD was 3TB, so having things like 6+ 3.5" drive bays was more important.

In terms of raw performance, cost, and basic functionality, these new boards hold a LOT more RAM. My X9SCM-F (E3-1270v2) maxes out at 32 GB, but you can fit up to 128 GB of RAM in a mini-ITX Xeon-D SoC. Also, these new systems come pre-loaded with all those features you would need to buy adapter boards for anyway (m.2 converters, SAS controller).

You're absolutely right, that's the one thing that I'm struggling with. I wasn't virtualizing when I got my setup, but now that I am using ESXi I'm realizing how nice it would be to have more than 32GB - FreeNAS and the vSphere appliance alone duke it out for over more than half my ram!

In favour of these new and Xeon-D and Atom C3000 SoCs, they already have many great features directly integrated into the board, and everything is ready to go! No need to spend a long time researching m.2 converter cards, or trying to find out that fits two m.2 SSDs on the one PCIe board.

Also true. If time were an issue I guess it would be more important - I like fixing up old stuff and reading about tech garbage though. Oh, and saving money. Love saving money.

The new machines use less power, but on the other hand you load them up with a dozen SDDs and the power saved will get washed out in the figures.

That's the thing, is the Xeon-D doesn't really use that much less power at the end of the day. There's still all the RAM that takes 1.2v - 1.35v per module, all the HDDs I'm assuming any FreeNAS user would want to cram in their case, the IPMI module (which is on 24x7 even if the computer is not), etc. When it comes to the actual processor's portion of the power consumption, if it's got decent idle technology (anything that's an E3 or E5 Ivy Bridge or newer), then it's really not going to use much more energy doing what it does most - idling. Then when you need the power, you have it, which is also a plus.

Also, SOCs (Xeon-D, C3000, etc.) have issues with virtualization where things like passthrough are either harder or impossible based on the fact that they're integrated and not technically using a PCIE lane (correct me if I'm wrong about this, but I think I read it on a guy's site who sells Xeon-D ITX computers with ESXi pre-loaded - it's been a while).

I would also expect them to be a little easier to keep cool and quiet (as long as you don't jam them into tiny little enclosures which, I understand, tend to have the opposite effect). Some airflow is a good thing :) I believe the ideal is when you can get passive airflow and a small quiet CPU cooler.

Passive-only I guess could be a reasonable end-goal but it's not going to happen any time soon. You always need some airflow for a server, for your m.2 and your SoC or your northbridge, and your drives. Hint: Usually the bigger the fan, the quieter. 120mm are your friend.

EDIT: Just wanted to mention the role that power supplies play in energy efficiency. My basic rule in a nutshell, based on all my countless hours of research, is always purchase a power supply that aims at being twice the rated continuous wattage as you calculate your system will use, because 50% load is where the efficiency curve of the PS's output is at its highest level (the CoolerMaster web calculator is good). Always buy at least an 80Plus Bronze (gold or platinum obviously better but not if prohibitively more expensive). This matters really more than anything else, beyond making sure the processor is at least an Ivy Bridge (22nm process) or newer generation, getting 1.35v or 1.2v DIMMs, turning off IPMI or whatever other little thing can be done to maximize efficiency. $0.02 given.

 

[Stux]

SOCs (Xeon-D, C3000, etc.) have issues with virtualization where things like passthrough are either harder or impossible based on the fact that they're integrated and not technically using a PCIE lane (correct me if I'm wrong about this, but I think I read it on a guy's site who sells Xeon-D ITX computers with ESXi pre-loaded - it's been a while).

This is incorrect. The Xeon D at least is designed for cloud providers, and the cloud is just a big network of VMs. Virtualization works perfectly on Xeon D platforms and the X10SDV is on the VMware hardware compatibility list (in the guise of a superserver)

 

[averyfreeman]

This is incorrect. The Xeon D at least is designed for cloud providers, and the cloud is just a big network of VMs. Virtualization works perfectly on Xeon D platforms and the X10SDV is on the VMware hardware compatibility list (in the guise of a superserver)

Sure, virtualization works perfectly, but we're talking about passthrough of a non-discrete "component" embedded in an SoC. It's not actually a PCIE device, nor embedded in the motherboard chipset. It's inside the processor.

But you're right - apparently it is possible, but it requires a slight workaround, as the controller won't be automatically visible in the ESXi PCIE controllers list.

Here's a guide I found:
http://www.kaperschip.nl/2016/08/ahci-controller-passthrough-with.html

Edit: In fact, I think here you are on this forum describing the same thing:
https://forums.freenas.org/index.ph...-sata-from-the-x10sdv-tln4f-o-bad-idea.46915/

To clarify for anyone stumbling on this post who is confused, this workaround is not required on boards using Xeon E3s or E5s (such as the X10SL7-F mentioned by someone in the above FreeNAS thread). They have separate motherboard chipsets with built-in controllers for things like AHCI, USB and ethernet that essentially function just like any other PCIE device. e.g. C216, C232, H67, X99, X270 etc.

By contrast, X10SDV boards have Xeon-D "processors" which actually SoCs ("System on a Chip), which integrate the traditional chipset into the CPU package. Other examples are Denverton and Avoton (although Avoton lacks VT-d to begin with).

However, many motherboards with SoCs also often have integrated LSI HBAs on the board (but not inside the SoC) which are likely more reliable and wouldn't require any workarounds. If you're shopping new and have money to burn, that'd be the thing to get.