Supermicro A1SAi-2750F vs ASRock C2750D4I

[Tomasz Elendt]

Hi,
this is my first post here and I hope I picked the right forum :)

I plan to build small (Mini-ITX form factor, up to 4-6 HDDs), quiet and low-power NAS for my home needs. I thought about going for Atom C2750 which AFAIK comes with 2 boards at the moment:

• Supermicro A1SAi-2750F
• ASRock C2750D4I

And now the question: Which one would you choose (assuming that you don't need more that 6 SATA ports) and why?

Supermicro is still cheaper (at least here in Germany). The only downside I see is that Supermicro uses SODIMMs while ASRock uses full size DIMMs. ASRock on the other hand has no internal USB header (that could be used for a boot drive) and no USB 3.0.

Another (bonus) question is about virtualization. I know it's not recommended to run FreeNAS as VM (especially in this case, since Avotons don't support VT-d), but with this number of cores (and the number of RAM that could be installed on these boards) it seems like a waste to run only NAS software there. The question is: can FreeNAS be a host system for some hypervisor (type 2)? I don't need much for these VMs, just a slice of CPU/RAM, NFS mount and possibility of running OS of my choice. If it's possible - what are the available options? (Sorry for lame question, I'm new to BSD).

 

[cyberjock]

Well, USB3 is disabled in FreeNAS 9.2.0+ since it doesn't work quite right with FreeBSD. You also shouldn't need to use USB3 much(and you are crazy if you build a system of USB disks).

 

[TheSmoker]

You can install freenas and run multiple jails to suit your needs.

 

[Tomasz Elendt]

Well, USB3 is disabled in FreeNAS 9.2.0+ since it doesn't work quite right with FreeBSD. You also shouldn't need to use USB3 much(and you are crazy if you build a system of USB disks).

Yes, I don't plan to use USB much. But I might occasionally attach external drive to it to copy some data (that should be faster than copying data to the shared driver over the network). Missing support of USB3 in current version of FreeNAS is important information to me (but I guess it'll be enabled at some point). Missing internal USB header is just esthetic thing (allows to hide boot drive inside the chassis).

You can install freenas and run multiple jails to suit your needs.

Jails is OS-level virtualization (such as LXC, OpenVZ and Solaris Containers) which means it really just isolates group of processes and limits their resources. I cannot use it to run different OS (such as Linux) unless I use real hypervisor (type 2) in it.
Someone mentioned (in this thread) that it's probably possible to run VirtualBox in FreeNAS (although no one tried it I guess). What are the other options? I also found an information that KVM has been ported to FreeBSD. Has anyone tried that? (I guess I should have asked it in different forum, since it's not really a hardware question).

Going back to original topic: Can anyone spot any other important differences between these 2 boards? How about SATA controllers: Intel C2000 vs Intel C2750 (+Marvel SE9230 and SE9172)? Is it ok to use them with CFI A7879 chassis and its power supply?

 

[cyberjock]

Missing support of USB3 in current version of FreeNAS is important information to me (but I guess it'll be enabled at some point). Missing internal USB header is just esthetic thing (allows to hide boot drive inside the chassis).

There is no ETA on this problem. It could be this summer or 2016. There is no way to know. In short, don't bet the farm on features that aren't being promised now. ;)

 

[Tomasz Elendt]

There is no ETA on this problem. It could be this summer or 2016. There is no way to know. In short, don't bet the farm on features that aren't being promised now. ;)

That's fine, it's not really that important to me.

It seems there's one drawback of Supermicro A1SAi-2750F - I haven't heard of anyone running FreeNAS on it :) On the other hand @forfiter reported that he managed to boot FreeNAS 9.2 on ASRock C2750D4I in this thread.
The advantage of Supermicro over ASRock is it's price (50€ cheaper here). The brand also seems to be quite popular among users of this forum.
I'm also not sure how well the ASRock's passive cooling works in the long run.

I still have one week to make up my mind. Thanks in advance for any advices :)

 

[cyberjock]

ASRock has been mentioned alot lately. I wouldn't say it's "popular" as much as I'd say "they're discussed a lot". Supermicro is certainly the most popular around here. ASRock has been offering hardware options that does turn a lot of heads. But, the truth is there's more to buying and building a system than a lot of talk.

ASRock has been making some waves as they are providing some tantalizing hardware options for potential FreeNAS users that want to build a physically small server that is low power and reasonable in performance. However, people have been having problems with them booting FreeBSD and FreeNAS. There are some issues to be worked out, and I have no doubt they'll eventually get worked out. ASRock also isn't well known in the server industry, so they have no name to go on. On the other hand Supermicro has a very well known name that represents quality in the industry. My personal opinion is that ASRock has definite room to be a potentially excellent contender to compete with Supermicro. But, that will have to be earned. They haven't earned it yet in my book, but I have no reason to think that their quality isn't very good. But, there is no solid time-tested evidence that they are good or bad. And that distinction should be made clear to potential buyers. Time will tell how good or bad they are.

 

[Max Performance]

The only downside I see is that Supermicro uses SODIMMs while ASRock uses full size DIMMs.

What is the downside of using SO-DIMMs? You can get both SO-DIMMs and UDIMMs with 16GB capacity, also with ECC, from I'M Intelligent Memory (www.intelligentmemory.com)
Asrock already shows "max 64GB" on their website, while Supermicro still shows max 32GB. But this is incorrect, the Supermicro Board can also take 64GB total based on 4 pcs 16GB ECC SO-DIMMs.

 

[jgreco]

What is the downside of using SO-DIMMs? You can get both SO-DIMMs and UDIMMs with 16GB capacity, also with ECC, from I'M Intelligent Memory (www.intelligentmemory.com)
Asrock already shows "max 64GB" on their website, while Supermicro still shows max 32GB. But this is incorrect, the Supermicro Board can also take 64GB total based on 4 pcs 16GB ECC SO-DIMMs.

The processor on the Supermicro board may be able to address 64GB, but until 64GB on their board has been thoroughly tested, it is unclear whether or not it is actually safe and stable.

Now, for other business. My previous "suggestion" was that you may wish to disclose your relationship to a chip manufacturer... this helps avoid conflict of interest issues while simultaneously adding credibility to the information you provide.

This was not ACTUALLY so much a suggestion as it was a guideline for your continued participation and promotion of a memory brand here.

Your two total messages have been well placed, generally add to the conversation, and suggest that you're not just blindly spamming forums. Given that the product is new, this by itself isn't objectionable, and actually I appreciate your apparent self-control. But you do need to disclose your relationship, or your account will wind up banned.

Thanks.

 

[Max Performance]

I work for a distributor of the I'M product line and I do have some insight about the compatibility to certain boards like those from Asrock and Supermicro.
Personally I wanted to upgrade my MacMinis (got 4 of them) with 16GB modules, but unfortunately this does not work, as no other Intel processors besides the Atom C2000 series is currently capable to work with them. On AMD and other processors they work well though, and for the Avoton/Rangeley Intel released an update to the Memory Reference Code last year. AMIBios then released an updated BIOS.

 

[cyberjock]

@Max Performance

Personally, until someone wants to spend the money to find out how well they work on various hardware, it'll be a bit hard for me(personally) to recommend them until I have validation that they work properly on the hardware we use around here. Not to discredit your experience, but there's something to be said for actual real world experience.

Also, I have been unable to even find someplace to buy them, never mind the price. I'm sure the price is far above what I'd be willing to spend to find out if they work or not. ;)

This isn't much different than the Norco case competitor that was here a few months ago. Their case was the same price, had small differences in their design over Norco, and generally speaking appeared to be a better designed case. But, when you're spending huge sums of money on hardware, there's something to be said by hearing from someone that actually uses the hardware that it does actually work well, what the potential drawbacks are, etc. That competitor was able to offer me a fairly substantial discount. But it still turns into a situation of "why spend my money to find out what I don't need to know?" I did feel bad telling him I wasn't willing to pay for a product I didn't actually need myself and only found the product interesting because I do like to be able to recommend various options and let the end user pick out the best choice.

Unfortunately, as a volunteer here I don't get to spend money on hardware to find out if its good or not. Now when I win the lottery, I'll probably do it just for the experience. But as a poor unemployed soul there isn't much room to spend on fun stuff like 16GB memory modules.

 

[Max Performance]

Feel free to contact Asrock Taiwan. They have tested the modules already, just as several others did. And they do appear on Asrock website under approved memory, although still with incorrect part number, which they hopefully correct soon.
The "full Intel validation process" is still outstanding, then they might appear also on Intels list of approved modules. Supermicro also plans to do a full validation that takes at least 4-5 weeks).
And yes, the mass production has not yet started, therefore you can currently not find them orderable in the shops. I think in March, latest in April you will be able to order them.

Pricewise, I can safely say a 16GB ECC module will not be much higher than $300. You need to evaluate for yourself if this is 'far above what you are willing to spend'.

 

[jgreco]

Some of us have actually had custom memory modules made in the past and are familiar with the ins and outs (and the astronomical price to do so).

In re:

The processor on the Supermicro board may be able to address 64GB, but until 64GB on their board has been thoroughly tested, it is unclear whether or not it is actually safe and stable.

I don't really know enough about AsRock to know whether their testing is up to par, but barring an obvious example to the contrary, I would have to trust that they have clue.

However, testing modules on an AsRock board would not qualify them for use on a Supermicro board, or at least that's not what passes for rigor in our shop. Even minor revisions of the same exact board can differ; I could dig a bit and come up with examples of where early revision mainboards in a model were incapable of supporting a specific kind of memory, and the design defect required a board level revision. There's actually a reason that Supermicro's validation takes weeks. There's also a reason that they only test a modest number of modules...

 

[cyberjock]

Feel free to contact Asrock Taiwan. They have tested the modules already, just as several others did. And they do appear on Asrock website under approved memory, although still with incorrect part number, which they hopefully correct soon.
The "full Intel validation process" is still outstanding, then they might appear also on Intels list of approved modules. Supermicro also plans to do a full validation that takes at least 4-5 weeks).
And yes, the mass production has not yet started, therefore you can currently not find them orderable in the shops. I think in March, latest in April you will be able to order them.

Pricewise, I can safely say a 16GB ECC module will not be much higher than $300. You need to evaluate for yourself if this is 'far above what you are willing to spend'.

For many people, they completely ignore those approved memory lists and stick with what other people say works. It's well know those lists aren't always maintained, and companies have been known to change their modules but reuse a part number causing problems. I've personally been bit by that twice.

Asrock saying it works is a good sign, but around here it appears Asrock may be rapidly losing its shine. Someone posted just yesterday that they bought one of those new Asrock boards and its a hot mess. Various issues that make the system FAR less than ideal for many users. Some may be fixed by a future BIOS update, others are probably poor design of the PCB itself. Unfortunately, word-of-mouth reigns king around here. And I'd definitely not recommend Asrock right now. And right now if someone showed up asking about Asrock I'd point them to that thread. IPMI is horribly broken, someone burned out a PCI card because for some reason the PCI slots are still fully powered even when the computer is off, etc. It just wasn't a good experience and he's very dissatisfied with Asrock.

By far, the most common brand bought here is Supermicro(and not coincidentally they're also the most recommended). So it'll be interesting to see if these pass muster. Then, it'll be interesting to see who actually will buy them and test them. I can say with a high degree of certainty that 99% of the users here will NOT drop more than about $100 on a stick of RAM(regardless of size) without some assurance from a user on the forums/IRC vouching personally that they work. Just like most people won't buy a new computer case by a different manufacturer that hasn't been used here. Most of us, given a choice between "proven to work" and "may not work" will go with what is proven unless the price is absolutely amazing compared to the alternative. And unless 16GB sticks are suddenly cheaper than the 8GB sticks, people are almost certainly going go with with the "proven to work".

 

[Max Performance]

Just to complete it: Here is the link to the approved memory list at AsRock which shows the Intelligent Memory 16GB modules: http://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=C2750D4I#Memory QVL

 

[cyberjock]

Just to complete it: Here is the link to the approved memory list at AsRock which shows the Intelligent Memory 16GB modules: http://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=C2750D4I#Memory QVL

Great... now to see who will ever risk the cash to buy some of these.

 

[FNSeeker]

Hi,

First time poster.

Better late than never. I want to add some info missing from the replies to this thread.

I have installed FreeNAS 9.2.1 on Supermicro A1SAi0-2750F (housed in UNAS NSC-800 Pro box . See: www.u-nas.com/product/nsc800.html). Now updated to 9.2.1.2. In case you (OP) still wonder.

(Running on 16 GB Kingston 1600MHz 1.35v KVR16LSE11/8 DDR3 SODIMMs; LSI 9240-8i card flashed to 9211-8i IT mode).

I used off-the-shelf NASs previously so this is my first with building server and also with FreeNAS. I take my hat off to many developers behind FreeNAS. But still got a lot to learn about its features while awaiting HDD's from my daughter coming back from the US. Much cheaper than overpriced OZ. FYI, Newegg offers 10% on WD30EFRX online + free delivery. Deal closes March 5th.

One thing though, I don't seem to be able to install FreeNAS from USB although Supermicro BISO recognises USB3 as bootdisk.

Cheers


http://www.u-nas.com/product/nsc800.html

 

[Tomasz Elendt]

So I went with Supermicro A1SAi0-2750F as well. I used CFI A7879 chassis and I put 16GB of RAM (2 x KVR16LSE11/8) and 3 x WD Red WD30EFRX (in RAIDZ1) in it.
I used IPMI KVM-over-IP and installed FreeNAS on a USB flash drive from "virtual storage" ISO image.

Everything works great except USB3 and PWM Fan (I replaced the default 120mm chassis fan with 'be quiet!' Silent Wings 2 PWM) but these are known issues AFAIK.

 

[FNSeeker]

Thank for sharing.

1. '.. used IPMI KVM-over-IP and installed FreeNAS ..'

I've used a more rudimentary way by hooking up with a CD-ROM! But like the sound of your method. Is there a link to step-by-step of your method?

2. 'Everything works great except USB3' even after trying this 'To enable support, create a tunable with a variable of xhci_load and a value of YES' ?

3. What power supply did you use? I am currently running a used EMACZ Zippy PSU, but in the process of getting a much more quiet PSU.

Fortunately for me, the 120mm fans of UNAS NSC-800 Pro are quiet. At least I got something on the good side.

 

[Tomasz Elendt]

1. '.. used IPMI KVM-over-IP and installed FreeNAS ..'

I've used a more rudimentary way by hooking up with a CD-ROM! But like the sound of your method. Is there a link to step-by-step of your method?

You can see the IPMI features of Supermicro board in action in the following video (jump to 15:56):
In 17:02 the girl switches into KVM Console and you should see "Virtual Media" menu item. Use that to select any ISO or IMG image on your hard drive (AFAIR it's also possible to select "Virtual Media" in Web GUI, but only from SMB/CIFS share).

Since I'm using Mac I used Java client which I downloaded from Supermicro FTP (link here).
In the end it was as simple as connecting IPMI's dedicated LAN with my router, finding it's IP address in my router status page and calling the following command in Terminal window:

Code:

java -jar SMCIPMITool.jar <IP_ADDRESS> ADMIN ADMIN ukvm

2. 'Everything works great except USB3' even after trying this 'To enable support, create a tunable with a variable of xhci_load and a value of YES' ?

Haven't tried that. I'll try that as soon as I'll come back home.

3. What power supply did you use? I am currently running a used EMACZ Zippy PSU, but in the process of getting a much more quiet PSU.

I replaced the chassis default PSU (no-name 200W FlexATX PSU) with FSP150-50TNF (fanless). But it wasn't the main source of noise - the chassis' fan was. Right now I have the chassis' fan disabled and all I can hear are the working hard drives :)

Fortunately for me, the 120mm fans of UNAS NSC-800 Pro are quiet. At least I got something on the good side.

Unfortunately U-NAS cases are not available in Europe :(