Atom C2758 vs C2750 for FreeNAS

[Shroom]

Hey guys, so I've recently been looking a lot at the new 8-core Avoton/Rangeley Atom boards by SuperMicro, they seem like very solid platforms for FreeNAS (moreso than the ASRock boards - better NIC and SATA controllers, more DIMMs, better layout).

I'm just confused about one thing - there are two versions of the 8-core Atom with only minute differences:

SuperMicro A1SAi-2750F: supports only Intel TurboBoost
SuperMicro A1SRi-2758F: supports only Intel QuickAssist

The 2750 board is roughly $35 more expensive on Newegg than the 2758 board, and Geekbench scores rate it marginally higher:

C2750 scores higher than the C2758 for some reason. Could this have to do with TurboBoost vs QuickAssist, or are this just unreliable/skewed data?

What is the difference between TurboBoost and QuickAssist anyway? I'd never even heard of QuickAssist until I was looking at these boards.

Will any of this make much of a performance difference on FreeNAS to warrant the extra $35? If TurboBoost is significantly better I'd definitely opt for the 2750 board as I want to squeeze out as much processing power as possible in this tiny form factor.


Note: Newegg shows the 2750 board as only supporting up to 32GB of memory, but the SuperMicro site shows them both supporting 64GB.

 

[D4nthr4x]

I have the 2758, I have streamed 3 simultaneous plex transcodes while running a torrent client with around 600 torrents at the time. For me there is no justification in spending more for the 2750.

 

[Shroom]

I have the 2758, I have streamed 3 simultaneous plex transcodes while running a torrent client with around 600 torrents at the time. For me there is no justification in spending more for the 2750.

Thanks for the post!

Would you mind posting your build specs here? I'm curious.

 

[D4nthr4x]

I have the 2758f supermicro board. 16gb kingston ram, 6x3TB wd reds, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151139 psu, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352033 case

 

[Shroom]

I have the 2758f supermicro board. 16gb kingston ram, 6x3TB wd reds, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151139 psu, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352033 case

With the exception of your case and PSU, we're going for pretty much duplicate builds!!

Glad to hear it's all running great.

What plugins do you use, if any?

Also... how did you fit 6 HDDs in there?

 

[Shroom]

Just found this:
http://www.servethehome.com/Server-detail/intel-atom-c2758-benchmarks-8-core-rangeley-tested/

Looks like the benchmarks for the 2750 are slightly better. Might be worth the $35 for the extra 200MHz with the TurboBoost.

 

[mka]

I have the 2758, I have streamed 3 simultaneous plex transcodes while running a torrent client with around 600 torrents at the time. For me there is no justification in spending more for the 2750.

Is idle power consumption an issue at your build? Did you measure its idle power usage?

 

[D4nthr4x]

I did not measure power consumption, the node 304 is designed to hold 6 hard drives watch the video.

 

[Shroom]

Is idle power consumption an issue at your build? Did you measure its idle power usage?

Why would power consumption be an issue? The board uses very little.

I did not measure power consumption, the node 304 is designed to hold 6 hard drives watch the video.

Will do, thanks! I might reconsider my case choice if it does, that thing is tiny!

 

[mka]

Why would power consumption be an issue? The board uses very little.

That is why I was asking. The Atom C2000 platform wasn't available when I bought my FreeNAS setup and this was a design issue for me. I 'm interested how it would perform at idle operations.

I ended up with: Haswell Dual Core Pentium 3.0GHz and 16GB ECC Ram, efficient PSU, Intel Server S1200 Board, 2 SSDs and 6x RaidZ2 WD Red (4.0TB & 3.0TB soon harmonized to 4.0TB drives). 29W idle during disk spindown, 16W idle without disks.

 

[cyberjock]

You aren't going to save many watts with the newer Atoms over your current setup.

 

[Madd Martigan]

Hey guys, so I've recently been looking a lot at the new 8-core Avoton/Rangeley Atom boards by SuperMicro, they seem like very solid platforms for FreeNAS (moreso than the ASRock boards - better NIC and SATA controllers, more DIMMs, better layout).

I'm just confused about one thing - there are two versions of the 8-core Atom with only minute differences:

SuperMicro A1SAi-2750F: supports only Intel TurboBoost
SuperMicro A1SRi-2758F: supports only Intel QuickAssist

Note: Newegg shows the 2750 board as only supporting up to 32GB of memory, but the SuperMicro site shows them both supporting 64GB.

You've made a few statements that have me confused since I own the four core ASRock board. The SuperMicro boards have similar onboard NICs (they are both Intel anyway) but the ASRock does only have a dual port. Since things like LACP and NIC teaming offer only marginal benefits for CIFS and NFS use, more ports don't necessarily help much unless you have segregated networks. I think the biggest differentiator is that the SuperMicro boards use laptop style DIMMs and that is why you are seeing a realistic limit of 32GB since 16GB SO-DIMMs aren't generally available. That is one of the nice things about the ASRock board is that it uses standard DIMMs and while 64GB is difficult to get and very expensive it is at least more practical to obtain. I also know that most believe that the additional 6 Marvell SATA ports are a negative, I haven't experienced any issues using them. Even then, you also have an additional 6 Intel SATA ports if that's a concern but if you leverage both you end up with 12 ports usable.

I'm not saying that the SuperMicro boards are bad in any way but their reliability may be overstated. If you're looking at using this configuration at all then you aren't all that concerned about overall reliability because there are better hardware solutions that offer more capability and reliability than something in this price range.

 

[cyberjock]

I don't think their reliability is overstated. If anything, people are jumping to the conclusion that these ASRock boards are really "server" ready. Supermicro has been doing servers for more than 2 decades. ASRock stopped producing motherboards around 2005 or so because they were bankrupt. That's not necessarily a good sign for long-term observers. Anyway, they're back, and they've only recently dived into the server market. Sorry, but I don't buy stuff from companies that "just" entered the server market. So when weighing one company with 2 decades of server hardware and one with a year.. guess which one is far more likely to have a quality product?

Marvell has been a nightmare for many people here. They don't really provide driver support for FreeBSD or Linux, so most of it is hack jobs to make it work. If they change something in the controller they tell nobody about the change, so the community is left in the dark. Is that the kind of "support" you want for hardware you are relying on to safely handle your data? I wouldn't say "yes".

Most of us are cost conscious and are willing to pay 50%+ less for slightly less reliablity. I no idea what "brand" you have in mind when you make a statement like "If you're looking at using this configuration at all then you aren't all that concerned about overall reliability..." because Supermicro is exactly what you get when you buy an iXsystems machine, except for the Mini. But, I'll tell you that all of the big names like Dell, HP, etc don't necessarily fare better for reliability with FreeNAS and FreeBSD. Just search the forums and see how many times those companies get bashed here with hardware that isn't compatible.

 

[Shroom]

You've made a few statements that have me confused since I own the four core ASRock board. The SuperMicro boards have similar onboard NICs (they are both Intel anyway) but the ASRock does only have a dual port. Since things like LACP and NIC teaming offer only marginal benefits for CIFS and NFS use, more ports don't necessarily help much unless you have segregated networks. I think the biggest differentiator is that the SuperMicro boards use laptop style DIMMs and that is why you are seeing a realistic limit of 32GB since 16GB SO-DIMMs aren't generally available. That is one of the nice things about the ASRock board is that it uses standard DIMMs and while 64GB is difficult to get and very expensive it is at least more practical to obtain. I also know that most believe that the additional 6 Marvell SATA ports are a negative, I haven't experienced any issues using them. Even then, you also have an additional 6 Intel SATA ports if that's a concern but if you leverage both you end up with 12 ports usable.

I think you misunderstood. I was comparing the two SuperMicro boards to each other. Newegg had me confused because it labeled the 2750 as only supporting 32GB, but they both actually support 64GB. What really caught my about the SuperMicro boards was that they have 4 DIMMs rather than the 2 on the ASRock 266 board I was looking at, but that's apples and oranges. The ASRock 2750 board also has 4 DIMMs which is nice, I just didn't like the layout as much as the SuperMicro.

I did like how the ASRock 2750 has 12 SATA ports and I HAVE heard people using all 12 and having absolutely no issues. However to me it just throws more into the mix than I really need and I'd rather avoid using controllers that the majority consider worthless and just stick with a board that has exactly what I need - the SuperMicro. It also happens to have a very good NIC and 4 GbE ports which just solidifies the decision for me.

I'm not saying that the SuperMicro boards are bad in any way but their reliability may be overstated. If you're looking at using this configuration at all then you aren't all that concerned about overall reliability because there are better hardware solutions that offer more capability and reliability than something in this price range.

I'm absolutely concerned about overall reliability. What do you think would offer performance and reliability on a better level than that 8-core Atom in the same mini-ITX form factor, and how?

 

[Shroom]

Most of us are cost conscious and are willing to pay 50%+ less for slightly less reliablity. I no idea what "brand" you have in mind when you make a statement like "If you're looking at using this configuration at all then you aren't all that concerned about overall reliability..." because Supermicro is exactly what you get when you buy an iXsystems machine, except for the Mini. But, I'll tell you that all of the big names like Dell, HP, etc don't necessarily fare better for reliability with FreeNAS and FreeBSD. Just search the forums and see how many times those companies get bashed here with hardware that isn't compatible.

Does the Mini come with the ASRock? That's surprising

 

[cyberjock]

I believe it does.

 

[Madd Martigan]

I don't think their reliability is overstated. If anything, people are jumping to the conclusion that these ASRock boards are really "server" ready. Supermicro has been doing servers for more than 2 decades. ASRock stopped producing motherboards around 2005 or so because they were bankrupt. That's not necessarily a good sign for long-term observers. Anyway, they're back, and they've only recently dived into the server market. Sorry, but I don't buy stuff from companies that "just" entered the server market. So when weighing one company with 2 decades of server hardware and one with a year.. guess which one is far more likely to have a quality product?

Marvell has been a nightmare for many people here. They don't really provide driver support for FreeBSD or Linux, so most of it is hack jobs to make it work. If they change something in the controller they tell nobody about the change, so the community is left in the dark. Is that the kind of "support" you want for hardware you are relying on to safely handle your data? I wouldn't say "yes".

Most of us are cost conscious and are willing to pay 50%+ less for slightly less reliablity. I no idea what "brand" you have in mind when you make a statement like "If you're looking at using this configuration at all then you aren't all that concerned about overall reliability..." because Supermicro is exactly what you get when you buy an iXsystems machine, except for the Mini. But, I'll tell you that all of the big names like Dell, HP, etc don't necessarily fare better for reliability with FreeNAS and FreeBSD. Just search the forums and see how many times those companies get bashed here with hardware that isn't compatible.

This isn't an attempt at starting an argument. In an enterprise environment, none of these solutions are generally on the table anyway. NAS solutions need to scale to 100's of terabytes or more and have to offer at least four 9's of reliability. Open source software isn't on the table for these things easier because there is no responsibility for these solutions. If they fail or if you have problems then coming to a forum on the web isn't going to be acceptable to the leadership of the company. Things like control units and redundant serving devices are not only desired but they are required. Connecting to multiple pools of SAN storage to deliver the 100's of terabytes of storage is also a requirement. Offering multiple methods of cross site replication is also a requirement. Of course these solutions move you into millions of dollars very quickly but when you stand to lose much more than that because the data is that important to the company then it's an easy business case.

In a small business and/or home environment I think FreeNAS is a great solution. I think that having the ability to work on a variety of gray market hardware is also very nice. I just don't subscribe to the illusion that one vendor's motherboards are so much better than another vendor's motherboards that it will make much difference when it comes to the overall reliability of the system since the weak point of that system is still going to be the consumer class drives that are in it. Since nobody here seems all that interested in building these things with enterprise class drives (i.e. SAS or FC, 10KRPM or 15KRPM or Enterprise SSDs) because that is where the significant cost comes in, I would say that you can pick whichever motherboard you want with whatever CPU and NICs you want and your gains will only be marginal either way.

However, if it makes you feel better then I concede that SuperMicro is certainly better than ASRock.

 

[Madd Martigan]

I think you misunderstood. I was comparing the two SuperMicro boards to each other. Newegg had me confused because it labeled the 2750 as only supporting 32GB, but they both actually support 64GB. What really caught my about the SuperMicro boards was that they have 4 DIMMs rather than the 2 on the ASRock 266 board I was looking at, but that's apples and oranges. The ASRock 2750 board also has 4 DIMMs which is nice, I just didn't like the layout as much as the SuperMicro.

I did like how the ASRock 2750 has 12 SATA ports and I HAVE heard people using all 12 and having absolutely no issues. However to me it just throws more into the mix than I really need and I'd rather avoid using controllers that the majority consider worthless and just stick with a board that has exactly what I need - the SuperMicro. It also happens to have a very good NIC and 4 GbE ports which just solidifies the decision for me.


I'm absolutely concerned about overall reliability. What do you think would offer performance and reliability on a better level than that 8-core Atom in the same mini-ITX form factor, and how?

I did misunderstand slightly. I would say that your mileage may vary when reading the specs for many products on Newegg. I think they generally do a very good job but they aren't infallible when posting the specs for a product they are selling. The manufacturer is authoritative on that.

I will concede that if the majority of the forum members that have experience with FreeNAS and these parts are saying that SuperMicro is the more reliable solution then that seems like the path to follow. In my particular case I looked at the capability and cost of the components involved and chose the ASRock board because it had more features for the price. So far I haven't regretted that choice. Unfortunately I have discovered the true cost and weakness of this solution is the drives I can afford to put in it. Even RAIDZ2 just delays the inevitable of failing drives. Either way, it's a fun experiment. I have not found FreeNAS itself to be terribly reliable from a software perspective but that's not what this particular forum is about and I know that I get what I paid for so I'm not really complaining.

 

[xcom]

I been using my FreeNAS Mini for about two days now. Is too early to say but so far so good.

I cant agree with cyberjock. Basically what you are saying is that iXsystem just shoot them self on the foot by selling a problematic system? I don't buy that.
I do agree with one thing ... SuperMicro has been on the market a lot longer than ASRock for sure.

 

[D4nthr4x]

This isn't an attempt at starting an argument. In an enterprise environment, none of these solutions are generally on the table anyway. NAS solutions need to scale to 100's of terabytes or more and have to offer at least four 9's of reliability. Open source software isn't on the table for these things easier because there is no responsibility for these solutions. If they fail or if you have problems then coming to a forum on the web isn't going to be acceptable to the leadership of the company. Things like control units and redundant serving devices are not only desired but they are required. Connecting to multiple pools of SAN storage to deliver the 100's of terabytes of storage is also a requirement. Offering multiple methods of cross site replication is also a requirement. Of course these solutions move you into millions of dollars very quickly but when you stand to lose much more than that because the data is that important to the company then it's an easy business case.

In a small business and/or home environment I think FreeNAS is a great solution. I think that having the ability to work on a variety of gray market hardware is also very nice. I just don't subscribe to the illusion that one vendor's motherboards are so much better than another vendor's motherboards that it will make much difference when it comes to the overall reliability of the system since the weak point of that system is still going to be the consumer class drives that are in it. Since nobody here seems all that interested in building these things with enterprise class drives (i.e. SAS or FC, 10KRPM or 15KRPM or Enterprise SSDs) because that is where the significant cost comes in, I would say that you can pick whichever motherboard you want with whatever CPU and NICs you want and your gains will only be marginal either way.

However, if it makes you feel better then I concede that SuperMicro is certainly better than ASRock.

The only difference between enterprise ZFS solutions and a FreeNAS ZFS solution is who gets yelled at when something goes wrong. You can absolutely use this in an enterprise environment.