Seagate 4TB Desktop Drive Longevity

[silverback1]

Hello to all,

Let me start by thanking everyone who contributes to FreeNAS, I am grateful for your work.

In June I purchase several Seagate 4TB ST4000DM000 for use in a FreeNAS system. Since then I have been using FreeNAS in consumer hardware that I already owned. I have now acquired more of the hardware recommended by the forum for my server.

Recently I have discovered threads on this forum regarding Load Cycle Count and Head Parking on desktop drives and have become concerned about possible longevity issues with my hard drives. Unlike the WD Green Drives I don't believe there is a way to disable Head Parking on the Seagate.

Could anyone offer opinions if I should let these drives run 24/7 or set up spindown, perhaps spindown could help increase the longevity in this case.

Thanks

 

[russnas]

whats the seagate 4tb head parking feature called?

i was reading about head parking on wd green drives and its fine for many users while others some claim its bad, it parks to quick IMO, i just got 3x4tbs over 2tb greens because my spin up and the grinding is so LOUD, these drives are quieter and it doesn't have that delay.

i chose the 4tb since im not raiding and lower power consumption.Im worried about the the longevity of the drives in terms of quality control not head parking.

have you tested the drives with hdtune before using them?
http://www.hdtune.com/

 

[silverback1]

Hello russnas,

I am learning more more about the smart attribute called Load Cycle Count that appears on the output of the smart data for my drives. I found this defintion on a forum post regarding Seagate Drives. Sorry I have not been able to figure out how to attach a link.


Load/Unload Cycle Count - Count of load/unload cycles
Number of cycles the head moved into landing zone position.


Here is the smart data result for one of my six hard drives.

[root@freenas] ~# smartctl -a -q noserial /dev/da0
smartctl 6.1 2013-03-16 r3800 [FreeBSD 9.1-STABLE amd64] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-13, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, www.smartmontools.org

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Model Family: Seagate Desktop HDD.15
Device Model: ST4000DM000-1F2168
Firmware Version: CC52
User Capacity: 4,000,787,030,016 bytes [4.00 TB]
Sector Sizes: 512 bytes logical, 4096 bytes physical
Rotation Rate: 5900 rpm
Device is: In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
ATA Version is: ATA8-ACS T13/1699-D revision 4
SATA Version is: SATA 3.1, 6.0 Gb/s (current: 6.0 Gb/s)
Local Time is: Tue Sep 3 18:18:58 2013 PDT
SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
SMART support is: Enabled

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED

General SMART Values:
Offline data collection status: (0x00)Offline data collection activity
was never started.
Auto Offline Data Collection: Disabled.
Self-test execution status: ( 0)The previous self-test routine completed
without error or no self-test has ever
been run.
Total time to complete Offline
data collection 612) seconds.
Offline data collection
capabilities 0x73) SMART execute Offline immediate.
Auto Offline data collection on/off support.
Suspend Offline collection upon new
command.
No Offline surface scan supported.
Self-test supported.
Conveyance Self-test supported.
Selective Self-test supported.
SMART capabilities: (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering
power-saving mode.
Supports SMART auto save timer.
Error logging capability: (0x01)Error logging supported.
General Purpose Logging supported.
Short self-test routine
recommended polling time 1) minutes.
Extended self-test routine
recommended polling time 537) minutes.
Conveyance self-test routine
recommended polling time 2) minutes.
SCT capabilities: (0x1085)SCT Status supported.

SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 10
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x000f 106 100 006 Pre-fail Always - 11633592
3 Spin_Up_Time 0x0003 093 091 000 Pre-fail Always - 0
4 Start_Stop_Count 0x0032 100 100 020 Old_age Always - 87
5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 100 100 010 Pre-fail Always - 0
7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x000f 100 253 030 Pre-fail Always - 428731
9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 643
10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x0013 100 100 097 Pre-fail Always - 0
12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 020 Old_age Always - 88
183 Runtime_Bad_Block 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 0
184 End-to-End_Error 0x0032 100 100 099 Old_age Always - 0
187 Reported_Uncorrect 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 0
188 Command_Timeout 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 0 0 0
189 High_Fly_Writes 0x003a 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 0
190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022 066 048 045 Old_age Always - 34 (Min/Max 24/36)
191 G-Sense_Error_Rate 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 0
192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 73
193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 098 098 000 Old_age Always - 4547
194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022 034 052 000 Old_age Always - 34 (0 17 0 0 0)
197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0012 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0010 100 100 000 Old_age Offline - 0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count 0x003e 200 200 000 Old_age Always - 0
240 Head_Flying_Hours 0x0000 100 253 000 Old_age Offline - 452h+21m+53.538s
241 Total_LBAs_Written 0x0000 100 253 000 Old_age Offline - 330805526
242 Total_LBAs_Read 0x0000 100 253 000 Old_age Offline - 418168784

SMART Error Log Version: 1
No Errors Logged


It seems that the load cycle count is high for the amount of power on hours I have, but I am not sure what to do about it.

I was hoping someone with better understanding would assist otherwise I will continue to search.

Thanks for replying

 

[russnas]

i see what you mean and your running them all in a raid, i was wondering what the drives function called to see if you could disable it, my first 4tb is, which from 13 june

9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 099 099 000 Old_age Always - 1326
193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 1092

second one from monday 2sept

9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 25
193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 63

are you using any of those features in view disk?, hdd standby, advance power management, acoustic level?

 

[silverback1]

Hello russnas,

I have set the hdd standby to 30 minutes but I don't think my drives are actually spinning down. None of the other features are enabled. What features are you using? Whatever you are doing your Load Cycle Count is way lower than mine.

Thanks

 

[russnas]

i have done the command again and its at, i have hdd standby 180 and 30 on the backup, all others disabled, i figured the drive will already have power saving features,im not sure if the drives are spinning down so i have too look into this

will look up ataidle and see if that can help
http://forums.freenas.org/threads/unsure-of-sata-drive-spindown.1053/

Try setting APM to Level 128 (no spindown) or above (or disabled).

camcontrol cmd ada0 -a "E5 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00" -r -
http://forums.freenas.org/threads/how-to-find-out-if-a-drive-is-spinning-down-properly.2068/

9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 099 099 000 Old_age Always - 1344
193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 1092

try this command
camcontrol identify ada1

Feature Support?/Enable?
Value Vendor read ahead yes yes
write cache yes yes
flush cache yes yes
overlap no
Tagged Command Queuing (TCQ) no no
Native Command Queuing (NCQ) yes 32 tags
SMART yes yes
microcode download yes yes
security yes no
power management yes yes
advanced power management yes no 0/0x00
automatic acoustic management no no
media status notification no no
power-up in Standby yes no
write-read-verify yes no 0/0x0
unload no no free-fall no no
Data Set Management (DSM/TRIM) no
Host Protected Area (HPA) yes no 7814037168/7814037168
HPA - Security no


Just tried hdd standby 5min, advance power management 128 - looks like it spun down
camcontrol cmd ada0 -a "E5 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00" -r -
50 00 00 00 00 40 00 00 00 00 00

 

[Yatti420]

Load cycle counts aren't that big of a concern on Seagate drives.. I'd prefer to have my drives never spindown or idle if I could afford the hydro.. Those load cycle counts are fine for Seagates..

It's the WD Green drives (possibly reds) that you will have to take some action.. 5-8 sec idle by firmware is great for power savings on a barely used computer.. I have disabled the green drives parking by using WDIDLE.. Definitely recommended if you plan to use WD green drives..

Less then 12 months on this drive.. My parents computer non-wdidle'd..

Code:

*** DiskCheckup V3.1 Build: 1005 Report ***
 
SysInfo DLL Version:                                                  SysInfo v1.0 Build: 1028
Time of export:                                                      17:36:10 04-Sep-2013
 
Device information:                                             
  Device ID:                                                        0
  Interface:                                                        ATA
  Device Capacity:                                                  1907726 MB
  Serial Number:                                                    WD-WCAZAC966842
  Model Number:                                                      WDC WD20EARX-22PASB0
  Firmware Revision:                                                51.0AB51
  Partitions:                                                   
      C:        1893291 MB
 
ATA information:                                                 
 
  Disk geometry:                                               
      Cylinders:                                                      243201
      Tracks/Cylinder:                                                255
      Sectors/Track:                                                  63
      Bytes/Sector:                                                  512
      Total disk sectors:                                            3907029168
      Logical sector size:                                            512
      Physical sector size:                                          4096
      Media rotation rate:                                            N/A
      Buffer size:                                                    0 KB
      ECC size:                                                      50 Bytes
 
  Standards compliance:                                         
      ATA8-ACS Supported:                                            Yes
      ATA/ATAPI-7 Supported:                                          Yes
      ATA/ATAPI-6 Supported:                                          Yes
      ATA/ATAPI-5 Supported:                                          Yes
      ATA/ATAPI-4 Supported:                                          Yes
      Serial/Parallel:                                                Serial
        SATA 3.0 Compilance:                                        Yes
        SATA 2.6 Compilance:                                        Yes
        SATA 2.5 Compilance:                                        Yes
        SATA II: Ext Compilance:                                    Yes
        SATA 1.0a Compilance:                                        Yes
        ATA8-AST Compilance:                                        No
  World Wide ID:                                                    50014EE2B11F631B
 
  Feature support:                                             
      SMART supported:                                                Yes
        SMART enabled:                                              Yes
      SMART self-test supported:                                      Yes
      SMART error log supported:                                      Yes
      LBA supported:                                                  Yes
      IORDY supported:                                                Yes
      CFast supported:                                                No
      DMA supported:                                                  Yes
        Maximum Multiword DMA mode supported:                        2
        Multiword DMA selected:                                      0
        Maximum UltraDMA mode supported:                            6
        UltraDMA selected:                                          None
      Maximum PIO mode supported:                                    4
      SATA Compliance:                                                Yes
        NCQ priority information supported:                          Yes
        Unload while NCQ commands are outstanding supported:        No
        Phy Event Counters supported:                                Yes
        Receipt of power management requests supported:              Yes
        NCQ feature set supported:                                  Yes
        SATA Gen2 Signaling Speed (3.0Gb/s) supported:              Yes
        SATA Gen1 Signaling Speed (1.5Gb/s) supported:              Yes
        Software Settings Preservation:                              Supported, Enabled
        In-order data delivery:                                      Not supported
        Initiating power management:                                Not supported
        DMA Setup auto-activation:                                  Supported, Enabled
        Non-zero buffer offsets:                                    Not supported
      Trusted Computing supported:                                    No
      Host Protected Area (HPA) supported:                            Yes
      Read look-ahead supported:                                      Yes
        Read look-ahead enabled:                                    Yes
      Write cache supported:                                          Yes
        Write cache enabled:                                        Yes
      Power management supported:                                    Yes
      Security mode supported:                                        Yes
        Security mode enabled:                                      No
      Device Configuration Overlay (DCO) supported:                  Yes
      48bit Addressing supported:                                    Yes
      Auto Acoustic Managment (AAM) supported:                        No
      Power-up in Standby (PUIS) supported:                          Yes
        Power-up in Standby (PUIS) enabled:                          No
      Advanced Power Management (APM) supported:                      No
      CompactFlash Association (CFA) supported:                      No
      General Purpose Logging (GPL) supported:                        Yes
      Streaming supported:                                            No
      Media card pass through supported:                              No
      Extended power conditions supported:                            No
      Extended status reporting supported:                            No
      Write-read-verify supported:                                    No
      Free-fall control supported:                                    No
      TRIM command supported:                                        No
      SCT command transport supported:                                Yes
      NV Cache enabled:                                              No
      NV Cache Power Management supported:                            No
 
SMART ATTRIBUTES:
ID    Description                            Status        Value        Worst        Threshold    Raw Value    TEC           
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  1    Raw Read Error Rate                    OK            200          200          51            0            N.A.           
  3    Spin Up Time                            OK            165          162          21            6716          N.A.           
  4    Start/Stop Count                        OK            100          100          0            521          N.A.           
  5    Reallocated Sector Count                OK            200          200          140          0            N.A.           
  7    Seek Error Rate                        OK            200          200          0            0            N.A.           
  9    Power On Time                          OK            91            91            0            6717          N.A.           
10    Spin Retry Count                        OK            100          100          0            0            N.A.           
11    Calibration Retry Count                OK            100          100          0            0            N.A.           
12    Power Cycle Count                      OK            100          100          0            519          N.A.           
192    Power off Retract Count                OK            200          200          0            56            N.A.           
193    Load Cycle Count                        OK            169          169          0            95093        N.A.           
194    Temperature                            OK            124          112          0            26 C          N.A.           
196    Reallocation Event Count                OK            200          200          0            0            N.A.           
197    Current Pending Sector Count            OK            200          200          0            0            N.A.           
198    Uncorrectable Sector Count              OK            200          200          0            0            N.A.           
199    UltraDMA CRC Error Count                OK            200          200          0            0            N.A.           
200    Write Error Count                      OK            200          200          0            0            N.A.           

Even using 12 months this averages 7924.42 cycles per month.. Everytime computer comes out of sleep or powered on etc drives have to spin up and that count should increase..

 

[cyberjock]

I totally agree with Yatti, but I do 300 seconds(the longest you can do). Why keep the head flying over the disk platters if the drive isn't used for hours? Of course, for my situation I have the "perfect storm" of opportunity for utilizing the Intellpark technology. I'm the only user of the server and I either use the server or I don't. It uses CIFS shares and nothing else, so there's no risk of the drives parking and unparking large numbers per day. I typically see anywhere from 5-20 parks a day, which I consider to be very acceptable. If you plan to use plugins, do iSCSI or NFS for ESXi then your best bet is probably to disable it completely.

 

[silverback1]

Thanks to all that replied to this thread,

After further investigation I realized that at my current load cycle rate I would reach the 300,000 cycle count rating for the Seagate 4TB ST4000DM000 in 4.84 years which is probably as much service life that one could expect from a cheap desktop hard drive. I can see why Yatti explained that Load Cycle Count is not a big concern for Seagate drives. It will be interesting to see what the actual life of these drives are.
At $37.50 per terabyte it seemed like a good idea when I purchased them. Only time will tell.

Thanks Again

 

[russnas]

the load cycles isnt a way to determine its life span, but with these calculated numbers it will outlast warranty,
i get 20 cycles a day being the only user of the nas, 20x365 = 7300, 300,000/7300 = 41 years,

BUT from the spec sheet the power on hours is 2400 which is 100days, so 6.6 hours a day for 2 years, to make it stretch out its warranty period,

im already at 1400 hours in 3 months so it will be over that in December.

http://www.seagate.com/files/static...sc/desktop-hdd-data-sheet-ds1770-1-1212us.pdf

so the nas version of this drive the un/load is 600,00 while the power on hours is 8760 which is 365days, im not sure why they under estimated these drives especially when this drive is ment to run 24/7 x365

http://www.seagate.com/files/www-co...s/docs/nas-hdd-data-sheet-ds1789-1-1305us.pdf

i dont know how long these will last but im certain they should last at lease 5 years which is what older seagate 250gb drives used it have and WD greens were 3 years warranty in 2010

 

[cyberjock]

Not a wiz with Seagates, but that's probably rated values. I know WD's are rated for 250k, but some people have had double that with no problems. It also depends on your type of loading. Streaming videos can be the most devastating. When i stream a movie it does a read about every 12 seconds. If I had used the default of 8 seconds I'd rack up quite a bit in that 2 hours(Hint:600).

Sometimes I turn a TV show on and leave the entire series to stream over 3-4 days on my laptop.. imagine how much THAT would rack up(Hint:28,800). So in just 4 days I can use up more than 10% of the drives expected lifetime cycles. Ouch! There are people that have hit that 250k cap in less than 60 days.