Samsung 870 EVO for main pool?

[sammysam4983]

I'm looking at making a huge switch to my server setup. I've been running a years-old used HP ProLiant server, and I'm wanting to upgrade to more modern hardware. I use my server primarily as a Plex Media Server, with currently 4x 6TB WD Red drives. Unfortunately, I got the WD Reds that fail once they get full, and the pool is already around 90%, so I need to make a change as soon as possible. One option I have is to get the 6TB WD Reds that don't fail (don't remember the model number), or I can bite the bullet and completely replace the existing server w/ a newer rack server that uses 2.5" drives instead of 3.5" drives.

Looking at the cost comparisons between the two, I have one question that will push me one way or the other: would a pool made up entirely of Samsung 870 EVO drives (12 drives in a Z2 configuration), be an ok setup? I'm worried about longevity, primarily. A 2TB 870 EVO is inexpensive enough that if I have to replace one or two every couple of years it won't be an issue, but I want to make sure I'm not setting myself up for massive failure at some point by using those drives.

 

[Samuel Tai]

No, the EVO won't have the required endurance as a TLC SSD. You're better off with the 6 TB Red Plus pool rebuild.

 

[sammysam4983]

Thanks for the quick response!
Just out of curiosity, are there any SSDs that would be a good option for a setup like this?

 

[Samuel Tai]

There's a reason for enterprise SSDs, because they have much higher write endurance than consumer SSDs. You'll have to forgo all the inexpensive desktop-class SSDs. Look for data-center grade SSDs, like https://www.westerndigital.com/products/internal-drives/wd-gold-nvme-ssd#WDS384T1D0D

 

[ChrisRJ]

Hm, my assumption would be that for a Plex server the vast majority of access is read operations and very little write activity. Would that still rule out the mentioned SSD?

 

[jgreco]

No, the EVO won't have the required endurance as a TLC SSD.

I disagree; the answer is not clear from the use case described. I have dozens of hypervisors that run on 850, 860, and 870 Evo's. The trick is to understand what your write profiles look like.

I started out in 2011 with Sandforce based SSD's, and in 2015 did a major upgrade to Intel 535's (you can search the forums for "Intel 535 endurance" articles by me). I actually did the 535's expecting to burn through their 73TBW endurance in just a handful of years. And that indeed happened, but SSD prices were falling at the time, and the five year Intel warranty saw most of them replaced with brand new SSD's. The 870's have 300TBW endurance and I've been deploying them without any failures that I can recall. They're always deployed in RAID1 with a hot spare as well, so I have done very well with the consumer grade SSD's as a cost-saving measure.

So the question is really this. What's your use case like? Our office fileserver for stuff like OS ISO's and firmware is mostly a "write once" affair; once a file is added to the pool, we generally don't remove it. I could see a Plex server's video library being that same sort of thing. On the other hand, if you are constantly running something like BitTorrent where there is a lot of churn writing new files and deleting slightly older files, you could burn through the endurance on those SSD's rather quickly. There's nothing wrong with right-sizing your endurance to the workload.

 

[jgreco]

It's also worth noting that 870 EVO 2TB and 4TB SSD's manufactured before 2022 may have a firmware bug that causes excessive wear. See for ex.

Samsung 870 EVO - Beware, certain batches prone to failure!

Not sure what you can construe from "construction" when everything is down to NAND chip and controller these days... and those all look the same construction wise. True. The difference was enough to bother me.

www.techpowerup.com

 

[Samuel Tai]

@jgreco, @ChrisRJ, with the nearly full pool from Plex, I suspect OP has a Torrent feed going, along with the nightly Plex DB reindexing and the various media metadata refresh tasks. This would have quite a lot of write volume.

 

[jgreco]

This would have quite a lot of write volume.

The Plex DB reindexing isn't a problem if there isn't a lot of churn in the file libraries. BitTorrent, on the other hand, could easily get out of control. You could still put that on a separate pool with some Intel S3710; I see used 800GB S3710 for $80 on eBay. If you're talking about a 2.5" bay server, that's likely to have 24 bays if it's 2U, so this is very doable alongside a dozen 870 Evo's. I'm big into right-sizing the class of SSD for the use case.

The torrent thing never made a lot of sense to me. I came into this from the world of hacked Series 2 TiVo's where a thousand hours was a common library size. When it became clear that it was practical to maintain a video media library, I was happy to do so, but it seems immoral to torrent content. I've always purchased content. This also keeps the library size manageable. I gave up on streaming services early on, because if you invested in any time trying to find content you liked and putting in your watch queue, it might well be gone by the time you got around to wanting to watch it.

 

[sammysam4983]

There's a reason for enterprise SSDs, because they have much higher write endurance than consumer SSDs. You'll have to forgo all the inexpensive desktop-class SSDs. Look for data-center grade SSDs, like https://www.westerndigital.com/products/internal-drives/wd-gold-nvme-ssd#WDS384T1D0D

If I were running a small business from my server, with critical files or applications on it, I wouldn't have an issue forking over that kind of moolah for the right drives. However, it's just a home server that I use to store media content, so I can't justify spending that much. The WD Reds that I've used for...IDK how long now, are about as "high-dollar" as I can feel good about.

The Plex DB reindexing isn't a problem if there isn't a lot of churn in the file libraries

There's the occasional addition to the library, but it is mostly read. I have the nightly stuff that runs as part of the Plex server, but with the stability in my library files the nightly write load should be minimal. I've never tried to measure the actual write usage on the pool, and I guess I should do that.

If you're talking about a 2.5" bay server, that's likely to have 24 bays if it's 2U, so this is very doable alongside a dozen 870 Evo's. I'm big into right-sizing the class of SSD for the use case.

Yes, my thoughts exactly, and that's the philosophy I try to follow. If I were going to add something to the server that was more write-intensive, especially w/ something like a 24-bay 2U chassis, I would add a pool of spinners that were "right" for that specific job.

The torrent thing never made a lot of sense to me.

Me, either, and that's part of why I don't

 

[jgreco]

I would add a pool of spinners that were "right" for that specific job.

You would add a pool of spinners that were "write" for that specific job. Heh.

 

[sammysam4983]

You would add a pool of spinners that were "write" for that specific job. Heh.

I didn't want to be too on the nose

 

[sammysam4983]

So, it sounds like if the pool is mostly read (75% or more) instead of write (25% or less), the 870 EVO would be a decent drive. Might they fail faster than an enterprise-grade SSD? Probably. The trade-off I see is that the high-end consumer SSDs like the 870 EVO are cheap enough to replace at a higher frequency without having to fork over hundreds of dollars if/when a drive fails.

Another component of my planned future upgrade is that it will be, most likely, a 24-bay SFF 2U server, so I'll be able to replace the 4x6TB drives I have now with a higher number of 2TB SSDs to spread things out (including cost) a lot more. My current pool is z1, and if I were to replace it with a pool of 12x2TB I would make the change to a z2 or even z3 configuration without any real loss in capacity. Then, I'd have plenty of room to add either a second 12x2TB pool for striping, or some other pool configuration for another purpose (write-intensive stuff, for example, or maybe a mirrored pair of smaller pools for super-duper sensitive backup/storage stuff).

Anything here sounding completely "off"?

 

[MatthewSteinhoff]

I'm not worried about the EVOs burning out. I am pleasantly surprised at the durability of consumer-grade hardware when used with TrueNAS.

In 2016, we bought four 960G, ADATA SP550 SSDs as a proof-of-concept deployed as a pair of striped mirrors. We wanted to see just how much faster they were for VM storage. If they performed well, we'd replace them with enterprise-grade SSDs. Seven years later, they are still running in our production server hosting a dozen VMs. If we are to believe the SMART data, still have more than half their life left.

We have deployed several TrueNAS servers over the years with Samsung SSDs of pretty much every flavor - yes, even EVOs. Never had an SSD fail after the initial burnin period. Performance is so much better than conventional drives we don't even bother with enterprise or performance SSDs. Buy whatever name brand SSD is cheap. (Heaviest install is 18, 2TB 850 EVO SSDs (striped mirrors) for a database server. More than five years of heavy production use.)

All that said in favor of SSDs, I'm a huge fan of a mixed-drive approach. Build an SSD pool for your Plex boot and associated metadata. Leave the media on conventional drives. No use spending money on SSDs when you can keep your nine seasons of Dragon Ball Z on spinners with the results being identical.

Since incoming torrents are transient and easily replaceable, you could even create a single-SSD pool just for incoming streams. That way you're not putting miles on your live pool until the final transfer.

Investigate use case and pool configuration becomes illuminated.

 

[sammysam4983]

yes, even EVOs

The way you said this makes it sound like there's a consumer-grade Samsung drive that's better than the EVO. Is there?

 

[Ericloewe]

The way you said this makes it sound like there's a consumer-grade Samsung drive that's better than the EVO. Is there?

Conceptually, the 850 Pro is still nominally available and it does use MLC. Does it really matter? Probably not, at the 850 pro price point, you'd just get a higher-end NVMe SSD.

 

[Morris]

I have a pair of 2-TB Crucial MX500 SSD mirrored in a DVR application as well as in use for Plex Server. This is a fine way to go though you must watch out for there eventual write limit and there going read only. That could be many years in your application. To protect my self one is a used drive (recycled from another application) and one new. That way the used drive will hit it's write limit first. These are very solid consumer drives and cost less than the ones you are thinking of.

 

[pschatz100]

I used Toshiba m.2 consumer SSD's for the pool where my jails are installed and have never had an issue with them. However, they do generate heat, so keep cooling in mind if you use a lot of them in a small space.

 

[Sasquatch]

to put write profile of PLex media pools into perspective:
2x18TB Exos in mirror
8TB media 30% torrented, rest either pysical media rips or purchased downloads plus 3TB production server backup run daily(replication job)
after a year, 8790 power on hours in SMART, SMART claims 104TB written and 865TB read that's 89% read/11% write if my math is correct.

how it would look like on per drive basis in 12x2TB z2 pool i have no idea, guessing 10.4TBW/86.5TBR per drive? ~72 years with my library on 2TB 870 EVOs ;) sound too god

 

[NugentS]

The problem that I can see is that in a RAIDZ(n) pool - all drives are written to in an approximately even split - meaning that (at least in theory) they will all burn out at approximately the same time - which would be bad.

Either buy different drives, with different endurance characteristics - which may be difficult if there are more than a few OR keep a very close eye on the endurance using something like @joeschmuck 's multi-report script which will send you a report every so often (your choice) and will enable you to keep an eye on endurance trends so you can start buying new drives in time.

Yes a plex library should be mostly a read library - so the drives might last for ever (in electronics terms)