Recommendations for SAS2 SFF-8088 Compatible JBOD (4 or 8 Bay) in 2024?

[sinisterpisces]

Hello,

I've built my first TrueNAS Core server in a Dell Optiplex 5040 SFF, with an LSI 9207-4i4e and a 2x10Gbps SFP+ NIC. I realize this is not an ideal long term setup, but I wanted to learn TrueNAS and have a way of testing my used NIC and HBA before spending more. The 4 internal ports are dedicated to enterprise SSD storage for VMs and fast, small backups.

I'm looking for a JBOD, preferably desktop, that will take either 4 or 8 SATA disks and actually work with TrueNAS. (I realize I can only use 4 disks with this HBA, but I'm envisioning being able to reuse this enclosure later when I build a bigger server with a 16e HBA.) I already got burned trying a QNAP DL400S, which is really just a SATA JBOD with an Asmedia controller. Instant SCSI errors when I created the pool.

These are so hard to find and so expensive that I'm starting to think it's a lost cause and I should just put the drives away until I can build a proper server, which would be fine, except one of the drives in my two disk backup NAS (a QNAP) threw bad block errors and failed a SMART test, but then passed both SMART and a bad blocks scan on reboot. Not sure what's going on there, but it's making me nervous.

I've looked at this unit, http://www.istarusa.com/en/istarusa/products.php?model=DAGE208UTL-2MS , as I found a used one for an agreeable price, which would be perfect (I have 2U left in my 9U rack), but I'm concerned about how loud it is. I assume it would be fine with TrueNAS.

Otherwise, the only thing in my price range seems to be one of the ~$300 iStar 4 bay units, and I have no idea which one of their several SAS2 4-bay JBODs I should be looking at. Their model numbers are inscruitable.

I'd appreciate any help. Thanks!

 

[Arwen]

Here are 2 desktop JBODs;

RS6414S/6418S Overview | | HighPoint Technologies, Inc.

The HighPoint RocketStor 6414S/6418S external 4- and 8-bay 6Gb/s SAS/SATA storage tower enclosures are designed for use with RocketRAID hardware.

www.highpoint-tech.com

It has both a 4 disk and 8 disk option. Use as short of cables as you can, because you are looking at SATA disks. The 8 disk option can't use the second group of 4 disks right now, as it needs it's own 4 lane cable. But, you know this. (Though a more expensive option includes a SAS Expander which can handle many more disks...)

Don't buy one of the High Point RAID enclosures, as they are not suitable for ZFS. The 2 I linked above are plain JBOD enclosures suitable for ZFS.

I have no personal knowledge of these products, nor any connection to the company. Simply found and kept the link for my future reference.

 

[Ericloewe]

I'm looking for a JBOD, preferably desktop

That's going to make things very difficult, it was never a wide market. Rackmounts are all over the place, of course, but that defeats the purpose of the desktop machine.

There's just no compelling situation that merits a desktop-style JBOD chassis, between the high cost and complexity, availability of large HDDs, capacity of some normal-ish ATX chassis models...

 

[nabsltd]

Otherwise, the only thing in my price range seems to be one of the ~$300 iStar 4 bay units, and I have no idea which one of their several SAS2 4-bay JBODs I should be looking at. Their model numbers are inscruitable.

I just purchased an iStarUSA "Raidage" 12Gbps 4-bay desktop (JAGE5BT4HD-DE), and I can help a bit with the model number info. First, you can use a 12Gbps model with your HBA...you'd just need a SFF-8088 to SFF-8644 cable. Since the prices of the 12Gbps are about the same as the 6Gbps, I think it's worth it to buy with the future in mind.

• The cases are very much computer cases without room for a motherboard.
• All the 12Gbps models have at least 2 external SAS connectors that pass through to internal. So, even a 4-disk unit can have more drives if you can find a place to put them (more on this below).
• Each starts with "JAGE", which means "JBOD Raidage".
• Next, you have the number of 5¼" bays in the unit (3B, 5B, etc.). This is actual height, like in a regular desktop computer.
• Next, you have how many hot swap slots there are (T4, T8, etc.).
• Models with "DE" are trayless, and I suggest you buy these as they aren't much more expensive and much easier to work with.
• Models that end in "-P" or "MS" have separate power buttons for each drive.
• Models with "SEA" have vertical slots in the handles to allow air to pass through while others have holes. I think it's mostly cosmetic.

So, with this, you can see that some of the models use "X in Y" bays that are listed here. I took the model I bought and then bought a BPN-DE230HD and removed the blanking plate and the top drive and inserted that instead, so now my 4x drive model is a 6x drive model.

The case I got is built well enough, with good cable management inside, and the separate cooling fan plus the exhaust fan on the power supply keeps drives at about 20°C over ambient.

 

[sinisterpisces]

Thank you both.

@Arwen, I did see those; thank you for sharing them. :) I ended up pretty turned off of them because of how aggressively they try to sell their own hardware RAID solution. Until I read your message, it wasn't even clear to me that they sold a version that would work with TrueNAS. :) I'll definitely keep them in mind for the future, but I don't love that they're so confusing in the way they push the hardware RAID stuff. Still, their hardware looks really well put together.

@nabsltd It sounds like you ended up doing exactly what I'm planning long term--my goal was to eventually end up with a 6 disk pool of three mirror VDEVs, so now I actually have a plan. I'll upgrade it with the additional bays at some point. After some googling, I found that enclosure for $300 shipped. I had been ignoring anything labeled SAS3 because my budget for used enterprise drives tends to cover up to SAS2, and then things start getting ridiculous. I completely missed the expansion potential of the SAS3 enclosures.

I ordered the model you recommended today from a place called COLAMCO. It's being dropped shipped from the manufacturer, so I'm not sure how long that will take. What would you recommend for a SFF-8088-MiniSAS HD cable? The ones I've found are very expensive to shockingly expensive and teh shortest one I've seen is 1m. I've also never heard of any of the brands I'm seeing, and I know length is a consideration with SATA.

What are you using for your HBA in your server? I have an LSI-9207-4i4e now (I'm fond of the 9207 variants in part because they seem very well behaved and supported and have a temperature sensor), but eventually I'll need to upgrade to something with at least six channels out the back.

PS: That model numbering scheme is infuriating. It's both insane and completely logical. I kind of hate-love it. :P

 

[nabsltd]

I ordered the model you recommended today from a place called COLAMCO. It's being dropped shipped from the manufacturer, so I'm not sure how long that will take. What would you recommend for a SFF-8088-MiniSAS HD cable? The ones I've found are very expensive to shockingly expensive and teh shortest one I've seen is 1m. I've also never heard of any of the brands I'm seeing, and I know length is a consideration with SATA.

What are you using for your HBA in your server?

I honestly don't know what HBA, exactly, I have, but it's been cross-flashed to be a 9300-8e. Generally, you are better off buying "all internal" or "all external" cards, as those tend to be the cheapest. The exception would be if both your internal and external disks are fed off an expander where you only need one cable regardless of the disk count.

For example, a 9300-4i4e is about $90 used, while you can get a 9300-8i for less than $20 and a 9300-8e for $30. If you have two slots open, I suggest you buy those, because an SFF-8644 to SFF-8644 for external 12Gbps SAS can be had for less than $20, and internal conversion cables are much cheaper.

Also, the 9300, 9310, and 9311 can all be flashed to IT mode. A true 9300 is IT mode only, while the 9311 has some decent hardware RAID functionality with the right firmware.

 

[sinisterpisces]

I honestly don't know what HBA, exactly, I have, but it's been cross-flashed to be a 9300-8e. Generally, you are better off buying "all internal" or "all external" cards, as those tend to be the cheapest. The exception would be if both your internal and external disks are fed off an expander where you only need one cable regardless of the disk count.

For example, a 9300-4i4e is about $90 used, while you can get a 9300-8i for less than $20 and a 9300-8e for $30. If you have two slots open, I suggest you buy those, because an SFF-8644 to SFF-8644 for external 12Gbps SAS can be had for less than $20, and internal conversion cables are much cheaper.

Also, the 9300, 9310, and 9311 can all be flashed to IT mode. A true 9300 is IT mode only, while the 9311 has some decent hardware RAID functionality with the right firmware.

Thanks! I'll look into these.

Will I need to buy additional cabling for inside the enclosure to add the additional 3 disk bay (to get up to 6 drives), or is all the cabling I need already in there?

EDIT: Does the 9300-8e have a temperature sensor?

 

[nabsltd]

Will I need to buy additional cabling for inside the enclosure to add the additional 3 disk bay (to get up to 6 drives), or is all the cabling I need already in there?

EDIT: Does the 9300-8e have a temperature sensor?

Internally, the iStarUSA enclosures use simple breakout cables, so you'd need another one like that.

Yes, it does, and can be monitored by storcli (LSI command line app) and probably HWInfo. I make sure I have good airflow over the heatsink of all my HBAs or RAID cards, though, so I don't monitor. A 40mm fan works great for that if the case doesn't provide enough airflow.

 

[sinisterpisces]

Yes, it does, and can be monitored by storcli (LSI command line app) and probably HWInfo. I make sure I have good airflow over the heatsink of all my HBAs or RAID cards, though, so I don't monitor. A 40mm fan works great for that if the case doesn't provide enough airflow.

Awesome. I'm probably going to hold off on buying another card anytime soon--this the Optiplex only has two PCIe slots and 3 onboard SATA slots; to get this to work at all like I want, I need the combination of the 9207-4i4e (4 SSDs, 4 JBOD drives) and two of the onboard SATA (2 JBOD drives).

The other slot has my 10Gbps NIC.

I'm going to have to rebuild this server with a more suitable motherboard and case at some point, but not now. I'm already a bit overbudget on this since I didn't know what I was doing at first and made some poor choices (like trying to build it all into a Dell Optiplex).

The good news is I will at least be able to reuse the NIC, JBOD, all the disks, and maybe the HBA I have. Oops.

Internally, the iStarUSA enclosures use simple breakout cables, so you'd need another one like that.

Cool! That's ... surprisingly simple. It's so nice that SATA and SAS use the same form factor for data connections on the disk side.

Dumb question. Is it conceivably possible to use one of those breakout cables from the MiniSAS HD port on the back of the enclosure to a pair of the SATA ports on the motherboard?

So, I could use one of the ports on the back for a Mini SAS HD to SFF-8088 (for my HBA), and another for a Mini SAS HD to SATA data breakout (motherboard SATA), and get all 6 drives.

 

[Ericloewe]

Dumb question. Is it conceivably possible to use one of those breakout cables from the MiniSAS HD port on the back of the enclosure to a pair of the SATA ports on the motherboard?

Not the same cable, but a reverse-breakout cable, yes. They look the same, they are incompatible.

 

[sinisterpisces]

Not the same cable, but a reverse-breakout cable, yes. They look the same, they are incompatible.

Ah. That's good to know. Thanks!

I tried to find one on Amazon and failed. Maybe I didn't use the right search terms, but all I was getting back were forward breakout cables.

Where would I find a reverse cable?

EDIT: In case anyone else finds this thread and is looking for reverse breakout cables, Supermicro has them.

Supermicro Internal Reverse Breakout Cross-Over MiniSAS HD to 4 SATA with Sideband 55/55/55/55/55cm Cable (CBL-SAST-0631)	CBL-SAST-0631	$18.44
Supermicro Internal Reverse Breakout Cross-Over MiniSAS HD to 4 SATA with Sideband 75/75/75/75/75cm Cable (CBL-SAST-0591)	CBL-SAST-0591	$18.44

 

[nabsltd]

Cool! That's ... surprisingly simple. It's so nice that SATA and SAS use the same form factor for data connections on the disk side.

As a side note, the iStarUSA enclosures are 100% compatible with SAS disks, but because they use standard SATA connections in the breakout cable, you lose features that aren't important in this use case (e.g., dual porting).

If you are looking for disks 8TB or smaller, used enterprise SAS drives are cheaper than used enterprise SATA of the same size.

 

[sinisterpisces]

As a side note, the iStarUSA enclosures are 100% compatible with SAS disks, but because they use standard SATA connections in the breakout cable, you lose features that aren't important in this use case (e.g., dual porting).

If you are looking for disks 8TB or smaller, used enterprise SAS drives are cheaper than used enterprise SATA of the same size.

Thanks for the info about the enclosure.

At least I have bigger disks than that, so I don't have to feel extra stupid about not going with SAS. (Though I probably will when I replace these disks.)

Speaking of that, is it possible to mix SAS and SATA disks? I think TrueNAS won't care, but what about the HBA?

EDIT: I just realized I didn't check...
Am I going to need to add additional SATA power cable(s) when I put in the 3 disk enclosure? I'm assuming I just use the cabling that's there already for the enclosure I'm going to remove to fit in the 3 disk one.

 

[nabsltd]

Speaking of that, is it possible to mix SAS and SATA disks? I think TrueNAS won't care, but what about the HBA?

EDIT: I just realized I didn't check...
Am I going to need to add additional SATA power cable(s) when I put in the 3 disk enclosure? I'm assuming I just use the cabling that's there already for the enclosure I'm going to remove to fit in the 3 disk one.

Mixing disk types is fine.

There are at least 2 extra SATA power connectors inside the enclosure, plus a couple of 4-pin Molex that could have adapters added. I'm pretty sure the same power supply is used in the 8-bay units they sell.

 

[sinisterpisces]

Mixing disk types is fine.

There are at least 2 extra SATA power connectors inside the enclosure, plus a couple of 4-pin Molex that could have adapters added. I'm pretty sure the same power supply is used in the 8-bay units they sell.

Excellent. I think I just need two SATA power cables, so I should be good.

Otherwise, I'm sure the pile of Dubious Power Adapters in my parts box will have what I need.

I'll have the JBOD monday, and the enclosure to get up to six disks is on the way. I'm super excited.

Thank you both for your help.

 

[sinisterpisces]

Here are 2 desktop JBODs;

RS6414S/6418S Overview | | HighPoint Technologies, Inc.

The HighPoint RocketStor 6414S/6418S external 4- and 8-bay 6Gb/s SAS/SATA storage tower enclosures are designed for use with RocketRAID hardware.

www.highpoint-tech.com

It has both a 4 disk and 8 disk option. Use as short of cables as you can, because you are looking at SATA disks. The 8 disk option can't use the second group of 4 disks right now, as it needs it's own 4 lane cable. But, you know this. (Though a more expensive option includes a SAS Expander which can handle many more disks...)

Don't buy one of the High Point RAID enclosures, as they are not suitable for ZFS. The 2 I linked above are plain JBOD enclosures suitable for ZFS.

I have no personal knowledge of these products, nor any connection to the company. Simply found and kept the link for my future reference.

Thanks again for the info about these.

I reached out to their customer service department before I posted this thread, and let them know I wanted to use one of their enclosures with TrueNAS and an LSI 9207 HBA.

I got a response yesterday, which I wanted to post here in case it's useful for anyone who finds this thread later. I emphasized the part where they disclaim any compatibility (or incompatibility) with the LSI 9207. I'm pretty wary of buying from them after reading their response, as I'm not confident they'd provide any support at all if anything went wrong (e.g., it would always be the HBA's fault).

Hello John,
Thank you for reaching out to HighPoint Technologies! You can find the link to our Estore purchase page below:
RocketStor 6414S
https://www.highpoint-tech.com/product-page/rocketstor-6414s
RocketStor 6418S
https://www.highpoint-tech.com/product-page/rocketstor-6418s
Please note that the above 2 models have been designed for HighPoint's RocketRAID series SAS and SATA RAID controllers. We have not tested for compatibility with either the LSI-9207-4i4e or the LSI-9207-8e.
Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns.

Thanks.
HighPoint Technologies, Inc.
www.highpoint-tech.com

 

[sinisterpisces]

I just purchased an iStarUSA "Raidage" 12Gbps 4-bay desktop (JAGE5BT4HD-DE), and I can help a bit with the model number info. First, you can use a 12Gbps model with your HBA...you'd just need a SFF-8088 to SFF-8644 cable. Since the prices of the 12Gbps are about the same as the 6Gbps, I think it's worth it to buy with the future in mind.

• The cases are very much computer cases without room for a motherboard.
• All the 12Gbps models have at least 2 external SAS connectors that pass through to internal. So, even a 4-disk unit can have more drives if you can find a place to put them (more on this below).
• Each starts with "JAGE", which means "JBOD Raidage".
• Next, you have the number of 5¼" bays in the unit (3B, 5B, etc.). This is actual height, like in a regular desktop computer.
• Next, you have how many hot swap slots there are (T4, T8, etc.).
• Models with "DE" are trayless, and I suggest you buy these as they aren't much more expensive and much easier to work with.
• Models that end in "-P" or "MS" have separate power buttons for each drive.
• Models with "SEA" have vertical slots in the handles to allow air to pass through while others have holes. I think it's mostly cosmetic.

So, with this, you can see that some of the models use "X in Y" bays that are listed here. I took the model I bought and then bought a BPN-DE230HD and removed the blanking plate and the top drive and inserted that instead, so now my 4x drive model is a 6x drive model.

The case I got is built well enough, with good cable management inside, and the separate cooling fan plus the exhaust fan on the power supply keeps drives at about 20°C over ambient.

Where did you purchase yours from? I just had the order I placed a while ago at Colamco cancelled because the item is "discontinued."
But they're still listed on the iStarUSA website. I'm really confused now, and even had the 3 disk add-on enclosure and a pile of disks and nothing to put them in.

 

[nabsltd]

Where did you purchase yours from? I just had the order I placed a while ago at Colamco cancelled because the item is "discontinued."

Provantage

It was drop shipped straight from iStarUSA.

 

[sinisterpisces]

Provantage

It was drop shipped straight from iStarUSA.

Cool. I placed an order at Provantage yesterday.