New to Freenas and i need advices

[Tréteau]

Hello everyone!

I've recently switched from OMV to FreeNAS and i've tried to build something cheap but decent and upgradable.

The configuration:
AMD Athlon 200GE (35W/upgradable to any ryzen)
ASUS Prime X370-Pro (116€/8 sata ports+M.2)
3x8Gb Corsair Vengeance 2400MHz (ECC not compatible with the 200GE but Ryzen supports it)
OS: WD Green 120Go M.2 SSD
Be Quiet! Pure Power 11 400W
Case: Fractal Design R2

Storage:
2x4To WD RED/SEAGATE IRON WOLF - MIRROR
2x4To WD RED/SEAGATE IRON WOLF - MIRROR
2x8To WD MyBOOK Shucked WhiteLabel - MIRROR

Also: LSI-9210-8i Flashed to IT Mode ( not used till i can cool it properly)

So, it's a simple file server and it works great but i want to know if you have any suggestions.
I think some 32GB ECC + a Ryzen 3 2200G would be overkill but it seems safer for my datas.

Thank You!

 

[ethereal]

i would definitely go with ecc and 400w may be a little small

 

[Tréteau]

Thank you for your advice, i think i'm gonna get some Crucial CT32G4RFD4266 and a 2200G.
Is 400W really this small? What could suck such power?

 

[ethereal]

see here for some good information - https://www.ixsystems.com/community/threads/proper-power-supply-sizing-guidance.38811/

you have 6 hdds at the moment and you could have another 3 with that case, you have a hba and 32 gb memory plus fans

it doesn't cost much more for a larger psu and you have more options for upgrading the server. you also don't want to under power the server it can cause lot of problems and be difficult to identify the problem

 

[ethereal]

with regard to the 220g this is cpu with integrated graphics - the graphics will not be used in freenas. are you buying it because you need the graphics or because it is cheaper ?

 

[ethereal]

ASUS Prime X370-Pro does not have an onboard gpu so i am 93 % sure this isn't a great choice for a m/b
https://www.ixsystems.com/community/threads/hardware-recommendations-guide-discussion-thread.46494/

 

[Tréteau]

I've opted for the 200GE first for the low tdp 35W. The GPU part of the chip doesn't interest me but it allows me to access directly the shell of freenas with a simple HDMI cable. It's not fun to plug a gpu just for direct access....
What is the problem with this board?
And thank you for your advice on the alimentation. I'lll upgrade this too.

 

[ethereal]

the integrated graphics on the cpu are not supported in freenas - you need a m/b with onboard graphics
the cpu and m/b are for a pc and will work in windows with a driver - freenas uses freebsd and there is no driver for it

 

[Tréteau]

Do you mean i can't use FreeNAS with this CPU and Motherboard? Because there's no FreeBSD drivers for the APU?
I'm not sure what you're trying to tell me. I'm actually running FreeNAS 11.2 on this CPU and this board without problem.

 

[Tréteau]

So, after research i'll probably upgrade to this:
-Ryzen 3 2200G
-Crucial CT32G4RFD4266
-BeQuiet! Pure Power 11 600W
For a total of 374€ on Amazon.

What do you think?

 

[ethereal]

So, after research i'll probably upgrade to this:
-Ryzen 3 2200G
-Crucial CT32G4RFD4266
-BeQuiet! Pure Power 11 600W
For a total of 374€ on Amazon.

What do you think?

looks good

 

[HoneyBadger]

Do you mean i can't use FreeNAS with this CPU and Motherboard? Because there's no FreeBSD drivers for the APU?

FreeNAS doesn't require any kind of GPU horsepower at all; it will work fine with the Athlon. Lacking a driver would only be an issue if it affects stability or will prevent the system from booting.

A better statement might be that the excess GPU power in the 2200G will just "go to waste" and you should only consider the CPU aspects of that upgrade.

 

[ethereal]

FreeNAS doesn't require any kind of GPU horsepower at all; it will work fine with the Athlon. Lacking a driver would only be an issue if it affects stability or will prevent the system from booting.

A better statement might be that the excess GPU power in the 2200G will just "go to waste" and you should only consider the CPU aspects of that upgrade.

i did say this but he already bought the m/b and cpu - he said it is working with freenas
i agreed he needed ecc and larger psu

 

[joeschmuck]

see here for some good information - https://www.ixsystems.com/community/threads/proper-power-supply-sizing-guidance.38811/

Great recommendation for a good read!

So lets talk ECC RAM support with an AMD CPU. I am familiar with this concept and while I have not downloaded the user manual for your motherboard, you need to read it and answer this simple but very important questions: How does your system inform you of an ECC parity failure? Believe it or not, that answer can be very hard to find. Please don't take this as me saying ECC isn't worth having if you don't know this answer, I prefer ECC RAM always and just cross my fingers that the motherboard will handle it properly. Also, in the BIOS you may have a setting on how often the ECC RAM is to be tested. One of the settings use to be something like BASIC. Leave it at the factory default. This scanning takes time and if your RAM is scanned a few times a day, that should be fine.

I don't know of any ECC RAM test products that flat out work on every system so don't spend your money on a RAM test program without first asking here. MemTest86 is a bust for example as it only supports very specific motherboard for ECC testing. Too many people have lost their money this way.

Sorry if I put a damper on ECC but I had an AMD system and this was one of the conserns that I was never able to answer. It was a great motherboard and CPU for FreeNAS but I couldn't prove it would recognize an ECC error nor how it would inform me of one.

 

[Tréteau]

Thank you all for your replies.

I agree that upgrading to the Ryzen 2200G would be a waste for the igpu part. But this board need Ryzen for ECC compatibility and it's the cheapest Ryzen.

Regarding ECC memory, thank you for your post joeschmuck! I checked the ASUS Memory QVL for this motherboard and the Crucial CT32G4RFD4266 does not appear in it. It seems that the board does not support single 32GB stick either.
For the parity failure i can't find anything for now.

Edit: AMD Raven Ridge serie does not seem to support ECC, so exit the 2200G and 2400G.

Edit2: So, after digging, i've found that the Ryzen3 1200 supports ECC with this motherboard. It doesn't have a graphic chip and it's cheaper than the 2200G! But the ECC compatibility is not really clear from asus. The documentation on ECC for consumers products is inexistant.

 

[joeschmuck]

I agree that upgrading to the Ryzen 2200G would be a waste for the igpu part. But this board need Ryzen for ECC compatibility and it's the cheapest Ryzen.

Money talks!

Regarding ECC memory, thank you for your post joeschmuck! I checked the ASUS Memory QVL for this motherboard and the Crucial CT32G4RFD4266 does not appear in it. It seems that the board does not support single 32GB stick either.

This is not always a deal breaker. ECC may still work but you just need to pay attention to what is on the QVL and then find a similar chipset. With enough research you may be able to find what you want.

For the parity failure i can't find anything for now.

Exactly and writing the company will likely provide no good answers.

So with all that said, I went to try to validate what Ryzen CPU did actually support ECC RAM and go figure, read this little article: https://www.hardwarecanucks.com/for...ws/75030-ecc-memory-amds-ryzen-deep-dive.html

Conclusion: AMD has not validated ECC for this CPU type. They are not saying it works or doesn't work, it's up to you to test it out and see if it works. I took a risk on an AMD system many years ago for my FreeNAS foundation. I have retired that system since but it did allow me to get into FreeNAS cheaply.

So my words of advice are more a single question that you should answer:
1) How important is the data you are storing on your FreeNAS?
A) Not important at all: You don't need ECC RAM, just build the cheapest system you can, and store copies of important stuff on separate drives or DVDs (such as family photos).
A) Very important: Consider a different system build that you know will support ECC RAM properly.

 

[jgreco]

I've opted for the 200GE first for the low tdp 35W.

Is your case unable to handle the heat from a standard part? That's the only time you should use a low TDP CPU.

Some people have the mistaken assumption that a low TDP part "uses less power" but this is wrong. They typically idle at the same power level as the standard part. However, under a workload, a standard part will throttle up and get the workload done very quickly. Low TDP parts typically restrict clock speed, and as such, will get the work done more slowly, and will be consuming peak watts for a much longer period of time, and generally uses more overall watts to get the work done.

 

[Tréteau]

https://www.hardwarecanucks.com/for...ws/75030-ecc-memory-amds-ryzen-deep-dive.html

A really interesting article indeed, thank you. Two-bits errors are not corrected though, Isn't it a big problem in case of failure?
As I understand, you either find someone with the same motherboard and CPU that provide you with some ECC kit that worked for them or you buy and prey.

1) How important is the data you are storing on your FreeNAS?

Not that important, it's not professional or critical data. And i backup on the NAS and on USB drives.

I might consider to roll with this setup for now and upgrade to server grade hardware for full compatibility when i saved enough.

Is your case unable to handle the heat from a standard part? That's the only time you should use a low TDP CPU.

My case is able to handle the heat fine. Honestly, i've gone with this CPU because it was cheap. I've seen test where many 65W i3 handled power consumption better than this 200GE but for twice the price, at least. And i didn't need much power since the build is principally a SMB server.

Some people have the mistaken assumption that a low TDP part "uses less power" but this is wrong. They typically idle at the same power level as the standard part. However, under a workload, a standard part will throttle up and get the workload done very quickly. Low TDP parts typically restrict clock speed, and as such, will get the work done more slowly, and will be consuming peak watts for a much longer period of time, and generally uses more overall watts to get the work done.

Thank you, that's really good to know.

 

[jgreco]

A really interesting article indeed, thank you. Two-bits errors are not corrected though, Isn't it a big problem in case of failure?

Double bit failures are generally a sign of a failed module. There is a lot of added complexity in trying to go beyond single bit error correction, which would mean extra memory and other stuff. The main focus of ECC is to remediate the occasional inadvertent bit flip that happens as a result of a cosmic ray, not on trying to force a failed module to appear "operational."

 

[Ericloewe]

And the system will panic and/or the CPU will be halted on an uncorrectable error, so data corruption is fairly unlikely in that scenario.