Need build advise

[joeschmuck]

A RAIDZ2 of six 8TB drives gives you 29TB of available space = 23.2TB Usable space (subtracted 20% for the healthy pool rule) and this does not take into account compression.

Essentially I want to run (8) x 6TB hard drive in a Raid z2 which would give me 36 gigs of usable space.

You forgot to subtract the 20% which would give you 25.6TB Usable space.

16GB of RAM is absolutely fine for your use case.

And let me add this into the mix... If you are a handy person, you could purchase a different computer case and move the guts over to the new case, then if you need a few more SATA ports you just add a SATA add-on card. You may also be able to modify the original case but I think you would end up with a frankenstein looking thing unless you are a pro at metal work. And I'm not suggesting that the motherboard is a drop-in for any other case, you may need to do a little modification to mount it like drill a few holes. And you can get a PC case for as little as $30 delivered. I'm just putting this out there as I would honestly consider this for myself if all I wanted were a simple server doing what you desire and wanting that huge capacity.

 

[bent98]

Can you link me the card and case you recommend?

 

[joeschmuck]

Nope, I shouldn't. I would need to see how the motherboard was mounted first and the dimensions, then buy a case just large enough for all the drives I wanted and has enough room for the motherboard. Some proprietary motherboards have weird shapes so this needs to be taken into account. If you are good with metal work then this shouldn't be an issue. (Good = Can use dremel tool and takes time to do a good job)

As for the correct SATA card, I like the cards I have in my ESXi machine (see my signature). These do not require any firmware changes like other popular RAID cards that need to be flashed into IT mode. BTW, you don't need the faster speed RAID cards for your use case.

While we have given you a less expensive option with the ML10, you could also build an entire system up by hand, it will cost a bit more but you would have exactly what you want without any issues, other than your wallet hurting a bit more.:D

 

[Stux]

If you're not doing anything except serving files (and plex without transcoding is just serving) then you could just use an i3 and 16GB of RAM. Would recommend ECC and a server class mobo.

Not much has changed in the world of CPUs etc in the last 4 years ;)

(Until very recently:) )

 

[Stux]

I remember there was a limitation on the number of drives you needed for a pool. There was some limitaion where you needed to add four drives at a time? Also, If I run (6) 8TB drives is Raid z2 enough? what about memory. I assume i cant get away with 16 GB as you need 1M per TB?

There used to be a theory that you needed a certain number of drives for efficiency but with the advent of compressed blocks that's no longer necessary

 

[Stux]

I'd go with the HP server as the makes the most sense $$$. Since I am limited to 6 drives I can only go with raid z2. Are there others running 6 x 8tb in raid z2 effectively? Can some one comment on what memory works with the ho server?

I'm commissioning a box with a Node 304, 6x 8TB IronWolf and a x10sdv-tln4f and 32GB of ECC. Aside from enhanced cooling (7200rpm) 6x8TB is a great balance between space/size. But the IronWolf 7200 rpm drives are harder to cool

(This system is designed to do a lot more than just serve files ;) )

 

[bent98]

You guys have been great. Thanks for giving me such good advise.


I have a few more questions.

So Right now I am going with the HP ProLiant ML10 Gen 9 server to save money. Since I am limited to 6 drives I will be going with (6) 8TB WD Red drives. If down the road I wanted to transplant the mobo, PS, HD out of that case and put into into one that holds 8 drives and I then add a IO Crest SI-PEX40062 4 Port SATA III PCIe 2.0 x2 Controller Card to give me extra ports, will I have any issues adding the two drives to that card and having them see the other 6 connected to the mobo sata?

So I really have to questions relating to that.

1) If I bulid a(6)x8TB RaidZ4 and I wanted to add 2 more drives down the road is that even possible or do I have to do it at the time I create the pool?
2) If so, can the pool span across the mobo sata controller and PCIe controller?

If I wanted to use an SSD to boot instead of the flash memory, how would I hook that up since I dont have a spare SATA.
Is there something where I can convert the sata to usb? I also assume I could buy the IO Crest and hook up the SSD? But can I co-mingle the ssd and my WD Red Drives if I decide to add 2 more drives down the road?

Last question. I have a friend who has access to a Xenon 22 core 2.3 ghz cpu. would the extra cores be better for freenas in my usecase or less cores with higher mhz?

 

[bent98]

doh, forgot to ask about the memory on the HP server.


I decided I am going with 16GB. The server supports single/dual-rank 2133 MT/s ECC UDIMM (unbuffered DIMMS)

I see I dont have to populate two dimms at once but will there be any performance benefit to populating two DIMM's?

I need to know before ordering the memory. If that's the case I may go with 2x8gb instead of 1x16gb. I know I could never go over 32GB if i do that.

I pulled these off the HP manual. I guess there are different memory modeules based on single or dual rank.

HPE 8GB (1x8GB) Single Rank x8 DDR4 Memory Kit 819880-B21 ---Cheapest price $95
HPE 8GB (1x8GB) Dual Rank x8 DDR4 Memory Kit 805669-B21
HPE 16GB (1x16GB) Dual Rank x8 DDR4 Memory Kit 805671-B21 -Cheapest price $210


I found a DMS equivalent part number for the 16GB that's $159? Should I stay away from that and go with genuine HP or crucable?


https://www.datamemorysystems.com/p..._tiRt27s0vPDANiIn_4HmlJHfNMpuEfsaAnXbEALw_wcB

 

[pschatz100]

For FreeNAS, there will be no significant performance difference going with one dimm versus two. The main benefit going with one will be that you will have the option to expand memory with another dimm if you decide to do so.

 

[joeschmuck]

will I have any issues adding the two drives to that card and having them see the other 6 connected to the mobo sata?

No issues.

1) If I bulid a(6)x8TB RaidZ4 and I wanted to add 2 more drives down the road is that even possible or do I have to do it at the time I create the pool?

First, there is no RAIDZ4, it's RAIDZ2, you could go upt to RAIDZ3 if you like but I'm sure you meant Z2. Second, you can add hard drives to the pool however it would be either by adding another vdev (not optimal for your situation) or destroying the pool, adding the two new drives, and recreating the pool. This means you would need to backup all your data before destroying the pool. This is the one thing most people do not like about ZFS.

2) If so, can the pool span across the mobo sata controller and PCIe controller?

Yes, it doesn't matter which SATA ports the drives use, it's all the same to FreeNAS.

If I wanted to use an SSD to boot instead of the flash memory, how would I hook that up since I dont have a spare SATA.
Is there something where I can convert the sata to usb? I also assume I could buy the IO Crest and hook up the SSD? But can I co-mingle the ssd and my WD Red Drives if I decide to add 2 more drives down the road?

If you want the boot device to be a SSD I would place that drive on the SATA0 connector (first one to be read by the BIOS) and then spread the other drive connections out to the other SATA ports. I would not use a USB to SATA adapter.

Last question. I have a friend who has access to a Xenon 22 core 2.3 ghz cpu. would the extra cores be better for freenas in my usecase or less cores with higher mhz?

This depends on what you do with FreeNAS. In your given situation it would likely just eat up more power and create more heat. A high CPU count would be good if you are plannign to run multiple VMs on FreeNAS. A 4 core count is what I'd recommend for most users here and most users would want to transcode video content. A 2 core count is the minimum I'd recommend, even in your situation. And in your use case, you don't even need a fast CPU, again because you are not transcoding. However I believe the ML10 is fast enough for typical transcoding, but I couldn't say it would transcode 4K content. Again, not something in your use case.

I see I dont have to populate two dimms at once but will there be any performance benefit to populating two DIMM's?

The difference in 1 DIMM vs. 2 DIMMs is called interleve memory where basically the RAM access speed is doubled (I'm simplifying it). However in a typical FreeNAS system, the RAM speed makes virtually no difference unless you are shooting to run many VMs where that speed would come into play. In your use case, it doesn't matter. You might be able to add the 16GB DIMM and leave in the 2GB DIMM and end up with 18GB RAM. One thing to do is the burn-in tests where you run MemTest86 for several days to ensure the RAM is free of failures (and other system components), and the CPU stress test for a few hours. With your use case I seriously doubt your CPU will be under any load except when you are running the stress test.

 

[bent98]

well I guess i am sticking with the 6 drives then as I would have to buy the 8 drives upfront to create to pool and I cant afford the expense right now. Is the SSD drive really that much better because that would mean I would have to buy and expansion card just to use it. Plus I would have to boot the ssd off the expansion card. I assume the HP bios would allow for that?

God forbid the thumb drive went bad, as long as I keep a backup config I could just reimage freenas 11 and download the config to restore?

 

[bent98]

I just purchased the memory from a place that sells car parts. Who would of thought. They are a certified HPE dealer. I got it for $201.53 shipped to my door. I had to call them up to get 10% off. That was the cheapest I could find by far

https://www.carid.com/hp/16gb-mpn-805671-b21.html


One thing thats strange about the HP Proliant ML10 Gen 9 is Tiger Direct is selling one with an i3-6100 process for $179

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/search.asp?keywords=+40414767

And one for $265 with a slower Pentium G440. I couldnt find anywhere in the HPE website or offical PDF specs about the i3-6100 being an option.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5173247&CatId=329

Needless to say I purchased the cheaper one with the better process. I assume if I want to upgrade the CPU down the road to a E3-1225v5 I should have an issue with the BIOS being locked and not allowing me to put that process in?

 

[joeschmuck]

With respect to the SSD booting...

The SSD is significantly more reliable than any USB flash drive. That is the only benefit. Always maintain a backup copy of your configuration. Since you will be like me, I doubt your configuration will change often so it's not a big deal keeping it current, just make a backup when you make changes to the system configuration.

I can't say if the system would boot from the add-on SATA card if you added one, that will depend on the BIOS. However you can connect your hard drives to the add-on card and the SSD to the motherboard (SATA0 position is best from a BIOS default position) and all will work fine. My advice, you can wait on the SSD and SATA add-on card and just go with a USB Flash drive for now. Also I don't believe in the USB Flash Mirrored Drives thing. If the drive fails, you just gran another flash drive, install FreeNAS on it and then restore your backup configuration file. It's very quick and painless. Having two USB flash drives mirrored doesn't mean the system will boot if one fails. It's a fake raid setup but some folks like it anyway. If you end up liking the USB Flash drive booting then you saved yourself a few bucks. If you find that you want to change it at a later date, it'a an easy change.

 

[bent98]

can you comment on the different versions of the HPE server. As we speak I just found a place that has an open box HP Proliant ML10 Gen 9 ie-6100 for $138 with no tax and free shipping


One thing thats strange about the HP Proliant ML10 Gen 9 is Tiger Direct is selling one with an i3-6100 process for $179

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/search.asp?keywords=+40414767

And one for $265 with a slower Pentium G440. I couldnt find anywhere in the HPE website or offical PDF specs about the i3-6100 being an option.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5173247&CatId=329

Needless to say I purchased the cheaper one with the better process. I assume if I want to upgrade the CPU down the road to a E3-1225v5 I should have an issue with the BIOS being locked and not allowing me to put that process in?