My system - some feedback?

arneboeses

Cadet
Joined
Oct 3, 2020
Messages
9
Hi,

please find my setup below. Looking for some feedback:
  • Mainboard: ASUS PL11C-C/4L including KVM
  • Memory: 2x 8GB DDR4 UDIMM ECC 2666MHz
  • CPU: Intel i3-9100F (no graphic)
  • Disks:
    • 2x Samsung NVMe 970 Evo Plus 512GB (mirror - jailhouse pool)
    • 2x WD Red Pro 8TB 5400RPM 256MB ( mirror - data pool)
    • 2x Samsung NVMe 970 Evo Plus 256GB via USB 3.0 (vdev cache for data pool)
    • 1x SanDisk 128GB (SSD tech) via USB 2.0 for boot/system
  • OS: TrueNAS 12.0
Tasks:
  • Nextcloud jail
  • SMB share for TV recordings from vu+ uno 4k
Best,
Arne
 

Nick2253

Wizard
Joined
Apr 21, 2014
Messages
1,633
This system is overpowered in some ways, and under-powered in others. I'm assuming that whichever country you live in is giving you some limitations on hardware, in which case, some of my recommendations would be inappropriate.

Mainboard: ASUS PL11C-C/4L including KVM

I think you may have the model number wrong here. I believe it's P11C-C/4L (no "L" after the "P"). In any event, this is a heck of a motherboard to pair with only 16GB of RAM and an i3 processor. Is there a reason you've gone with this motherboard instead of, say SUPERMICRO MBD-X11SSL-F-O? Or even the P11C-M/4L?

Memory: 2x 8GB DDR4 UDIMM ECC 2666MHz
CPU: Intel i3-9100F (no graphic)

Both compatible with the chosen motherboard. You could probably go previous gen and save some money all across the board.

Disks:
  • 2x Samsung NVMe 970 Evo Plus 512GB (mirror - jailhouse pool)
  • 2x WD Red Pro 8TB 5400RPM 256MB ( mirror - data pool)
  • 2x Samsung NVMe 970 Evo Plus 256GB via USB 3.0 (vdev cache for data pool)
  • 1x SanDisk 128GB (SSD tech) via USB 2.0 for boot/system

You have some interesting choices here.

First the jail pool: an SSD mirror should do fine for jail storage. However, given that all you're doing is Nextcloud, this is really overkill.

Data Pool: good call on the Red Pros. Make sure you avoid the SMR problem! However, the choice of an 8TB mirror is interesting. Right now, it looks like 4TB drives have the best price/TB ratio, so 3x 4TB drives in RAIDZ would give you as much space as your 8TB mirror for much less cost. Scaled up, you could probably do 5x or 6x 4TB drives in RAIDZ2 for slightly more, with now double redundancy, and even more storage space.

"vdev cache": Wrong, wrong wrong! Nothing about this makes sense. First off, let's clean up the terminology. A cache vdev adds read cache to a pool. Often, this is referred to as an L2ARC drive, because it provides level 2 ARC (adaptive replacement cache; the main L1 ARC is your RAM). L2ARC is only beneficial in certain circumstances. Most importantly, if you are reading a file many times, an L2ARC can help a lot. But if you are reading data randomly, an L2ARC does nothing. Furthermore, it could actually make system performance worse, because RAM (which would be L1 ARC) is now being used to manage your L2ARC. For media streaming, an L2ARC is almost useless.

So, here's the issue: you're listing two drives to be used as L2ARC devices. For your use case, you don't even need one drive. 2nd: what the heck are you doing connecting these drives through USB3!? You have SATA ports on your motherboard. Use them! These drives are a waste, versus buying more data drives for your main data pool.

Perhaps, you really meant that you wanted to use one of these as a Log device, or a SLOG (separate log). That might help you, again, depending on your use case. Connecting it through USB 3, though...that's just setting you up for a bad time.

If you did mean to go the SLOG route, then these drives are not exactly the right devices. ZFS only uses something like 4GB max for its SLOG. A good SLOG devices is a highly reliable SSD with power loss protection. If you're serious about data protection, then you should probably mirror the SLOG. If you don't care about data protection, then don't do sync-writes to your NAS.

With your use case of Nextclound and media streaming, you won't benefit from a SLOG either.

boot/system: I don't know what your boot device is. Is that a USB stick or an SSD? 128GB is way overkill for a boot device. You're way better off with 2x 16GB USB sticks in a mirror. If it's an SSD, just use a SATA port and be done with it; none of this SATA devices via USB nonsense.

---

Overall, if this was my system, I'd look at the following changes:
  • Buy last-gen hardware to save a $100 or two.
  • Lose the cache devices, and giant SATA drives, and buy 6x 4TB drives. Run those in stripped mirrors for performance, or RAIDZ2 for space.
  • Get mirrored USB sticks for the boot device.
  • If you really only plan on doing Nextcloud, lose the jail pool and spend that money on an extra pair of 4TB SATA drives.
 

arneboeses

Cadet
Joined
Oct 3, 2020
Messages
9
Thank you for the extended feedback. I highly appreciate it.

Mainboard - you're right. Somehow the "L" jumped in there. I took that one as it has already 2 NVMe slots onboard and I already had these two SSDs at home. Additionally, it supports the KVM via an extra module, is low power consumption and supports ECC memory. Regarding the " P11C-M/4L" - I simply haven't seen it when I purchased that board in January.

CPU and Memory - I took 16GB as I assume that should be fine for my home NAS. There are only 2-3 jails running (Nextcloud, piHole, testing) and some SMB shares. Additionally, my main goal was to have as few power consumption as possible. It should replace my former root servers. As I have the kvm module I did not want to have graphic unit so I took that one. 4 cores seemed to be fine.

Storage
  • (NVMe) - I wanted to have a fast jailhouse therefore the NVMe. As I already had them and the size is suitable for my needs, I set them as mirror for fail safe reasons.
  • (Disks) - The "data" disks are mounted into the nextcloud jail as storage. The overall current usage is about 48% and there is not so much coming in the next 2-3 years. The mainboard only support 4x SATA. I had 4x 2TB disks set as raidz before but two of them died so I replaced them. Due the power saving I just took two bigger ones which were on sale at that time instead of 4. But yes, I thought about 4 mirror-striped as well but they will consume additional power.
  • (Boot) - It's that one. I had it at home as well and I had the internal USB port left. I did not mirror them as I do regular config backups and could replace the device at anytime. No need for SLA of 99.99% or so.
  • (vdev) - maybe I misunderstood the usage of it. As my data pool has only 5400rpm devices I thought to add a SSD cache to speed up the reading and to avoid that the disks need to run if not necessary as the system is in my living room. I'm sharing a gallery via Nextcloud with my family so we add files there and theses files will be read regularly. But yes, random reads are the majority. As the Samsungs can only r/w with 3400/3000Mbps I put them into USB 3 adapters which can handle 5Gbps max so there should not be a bottle neck.
Is it now more clear or still nonsense ;)

Best,
Arne
 

ChrisRJ

Wizard
Joined
Oct 23, 2020
Messages
1,919
To the OP: What drives you towards FreeNAS and not e.g. Synology?
 

arneboeses

Cadet
Joined
Oct 3, 2020
Messages
9
I have a QNAP at home as well and some qnaps and synologys at work. I don't like the UI, the totally overloaded system and the fact that they limit the functionalities on purpose. E.g. - I was running some Linux VMs on my qnap. Qnap did an update without a note that they will remove that app from the system. Luckily I had backups of them but that's a no-go, additionally to the other facts I already mentioned
 

Nick2253

Wizard
Joined
Apr 21, 2014
Messages
1,633
So, have you built this system or not? It sounds like you already own the hardware and already have the system set up..... So, I have to ask the question: what feedback are you looking for? You posted this in the "Will it FreeNAS?" forum, which usually implies that you're looking to build a system, or to repurpose a system for FreeNAS. As far as I can tell, you are doing neither here.

USB-to-SATA (and by extension, NVMe) adapters, as a general rule, add a bunch of latency to communication. Even if sequential data read speeds are high, that doesn't necessarily mean that random I/O will be high as well. Also, many USB adapters do a poor job of providing SMART data or other low-level drive data, which ZFS relies on. While I can't say for sure that all USB-to-SATA adapters are deficient, from my experience, every USB-to-SATA adapter I've used has been deficient and inferior to direct SATA connections.

Power saving is definitely a worthwhile goal, but I'm wondering if you're being penny wise and pound foolish here. Idle power for HDDs is usually somewhere around 5W. Running 24/7 for a year is about 44 kWh. In Europe, where electricity is fairly expensive, you're running around $0.30/kWh, which makes the electricity cost about $13/yr/HDD. Trying to optimize the spin up/down of a hard drive won't save you much in terms of energy cost, and will definitely increase the wear on the drives. In other words, if you want to work on real savings, I'd look at buying a more efficient refrigerator, furnace, or washer/dryer, which would save you hundreds of dollars per year in electricity.

If you're looking for feedback on ways to improve your system, I would suggest:
  1. Ditch the USB adapters.
  2. Ditch the cache drives.
 

arneboeses

Cadet
Joined
Oct 3, 2020
Messages
9
Thanks for the feedback. It was indeed what I was looking for. I already had all components at home and was looking for some feedback/optimization. I removed the cached as recommended. I tested the USB NVMe adapter and they would become a bottle neck as you mentioned. The r/w speed was just 350MB/s.

Thanks again.
 
Joined
Jan 27, 2020
Messages
577
Power saving is definitely a worthwhile goal, but I'm wondering if you're being penny wise and pound foolish here. Idle power for HDDs is usually somewhere around 5W. Running 24/7 for a year is about 44 kWh. In Europe, where electricity is fairly expensive, you're running around $0.30/kWh, which makes the electricity cost about $13/yr/HDD. Trying to optimize the spin up/down of a hard drive won't save you much in terms of energy cost, and will definitely increase the wear on the drives. In other words, if you want to work on real savings, I'd look at buying a more efficient refrigerator, furnace, or washer/dryer, which would save you hundreds of dollars per year in electricity.
This! spin down interferes with lot's of scheduled processes like SMART tests, scrubs, meta data creation. It can make the shares and applications much more unresponsive. I wouldn't bother.
 
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