My Internet is awesome

[Black Ninja]

Our green brother was right: Basically till we get out internet from Local municipality-based broadband services, it won't get better.

I hope it won't comes to that but let me say it , so I can refer to this moment as "I told you so !" in a future:
No what the big cable company is doing already is trying to do is to separate internet to where you going and how long you stay there m and how far you what to go. So they'll start charging you according to your destination of traffic. Example: You stream from "our network" video it won't cost you same if you stream from netflix , or overseas if you like.

Our traffic will be manipulated by either slowing it down a lot or stopping to access to some destinations or being charged more according to "where you going on internet" and "who's network you are accessing". So we won't be able to go wherever we like and connect to whoever we like.

They already started to play these games with netflix(I don't like streaming anyways). Now they are still plotting about the new ways of internet being delivered. Trying to compare internet like not being the pipe the the water itselft. More you use more you pay.(at least that's how they are lobbying it) The truth they are just the pipe, the data we are getting they don't create it, they don't have a well where they dig the water , they are just the pipe between us and the destination, but they are not happy with this role. Because the temptation to control what what all people drink is to great and that's why it has been abused and it will be even more unless is taken of their hands.

That's is I said my prediction. And just the time will tell if I was right or wrong. I really hope I will be proven wrong for everybody's sake.

 

[Black Ninja]

In some cases, ignorance is bliss ;)

It is, but then you can't complaint why it hurts when you already chose the "blue pill":)

 

[jgreco]

I must post this link: https://what-if.xkcd.com/31/ :D

Honestly, there was a time when I was ferrying magnetic media around the city because the Telebit modems used for UUCP could no longer keep up with mail and news.

 

[joeschmuck]

I must post this link: https://what-if.xkcd.com/31/ :D

Nice read.

Honestly, there was a time when I was ferrying magnetic media around the city because the Telebit modems used for UUCP could no longer keep up with mail and news.

I recall moving data around using 8" floppy discs because our 110 baud acoustic modems was just so slow so it was faster to just drive it across town. Of course that wasn't for work, but it was for school, High School.

 

[jgreco]

Heh. I remember in high school, being one of just a few kids allowed to work with a programmable calculator of some sort. Damned if I can remember the brand or model anymore, I just remember that it had a paper tape printer, a mag card reader that took a slightly-bigger-than-credit-card magcard, and it had a punch-card reader add-on. It could run extremely simple programs, but the very limited supply of unobtanium magcards was jealously guarded by the CS teacher.

Back when it took *effort* to add two numbers

 

[jgreco]

HOLY HELL, THE INTERNET IS AWESOME.

http://www.oldcalculatormuseum.com/monroe1860.html

Memories come flooding back. I fondly remember learning the intricacies of that machine, one punch card at a time.

 

[Black Ninja]

In old days with 14.4K modems, Loading a page on internet it took some time so I had a habit to open few windows to check another while waiting on first one to load.
Today with PC's 100x faster and internet 100000x faster some pages are taking the same time. By the time they load all the video,adds,drm,and all the junk attached to it and then encrypted on over provision system, it takes same time for some pages to load as it took in a 90's.
So at some point we are getting the tastes of the old days limited old hardware by the use of the lastsest and greatest hardware use in a wrong way.

 

[Bidule0hm]

So at some point we are getting the tastes of the old days limited old hardware by the use of the lastsest and greatest hardware use in a wrong way.

Exactly, can't agree more. I have a Amiga that boot in 8 seconds (that's from floppy, not from SSD...) and the OS only use less than 200 KB of RAM when idle (but Windows on the other hand...), and it's very stable, I didn't crashed it once (but Windows on the other hand...²).

Now it's like "yeah we have x GB of RAM, I don't care if I use x MB just to do this useless thing (or even useful thing but I can use 10x less RAM if I optimize it, but why optimize it? we have tons of RAM now...)", that's why I hate java (besides the others problems like being the biggest security hole I ever saw... and it's even portable thanks to the only "advantage" of java...) or bloated web sites who use a ton of CSS, JS and images to do useless things (usually to be "pretty", no even for the ergonomy...). Ok, I digress a bit too much maybe here... :P

 

[joeschmuck]

Heh. I remember in high school, being one of just a few kids allowed to work with a programmable calculator of some sort. Damned if I can remember the brand or model anymore, I just remember that it had a paper tape printer, a mag card reader that took a slightly-bigger-than-credit-card magcard, and it had a punch-card reader add-on. It could run extremely simple programs, but the very limited supply of unobtanium magcards was jealously guarded by the CS teacher.

Back when it took *effort* to add two numbers :)

Good Times!

And I can't beat that one. The oldest thing I ever worked on was a mid-1970's Ballistic Missile System back in 1982 on the USS Von Steuben SSBN 632 but even that system was upgraded from core memory, but for decades it still retained hydraulic operated magnetic disk drives with read/write heads about 1" in diameter and I use to teach how to troubleshoot the system to the flip-flop level (all the components were discrete parts) as repairing it could take some time if you're just Easter egging it...

In old days with 14.4K modems, Loading a page on internet it took some time so I had a habit to open few windows to check another while waiting on first one to load.

LOL, Yea, I'll give it to you, 14.4K modems on the internet were slow but so were the V.21 and V.22 modems which ran at 1200 and 2400 bps. I use to run a BBS back in the day and it used a 1200 bps modem and a separate phone line to support anyone calling in at any time, then the first internet like service in my area called Prodigy became available and an upgrade to double my speed was in order, the 2400 bps modem made all the difference in the world and I still retained that second dedicated phone line. ISPs started popping up a few years after Prodigy and they had more to offer, like better access to the real internet and everything was command line driven. Software was not very graphical at all but it was still fun.

 

[joeschmuck]

I have a Amiga that boot in 8 seconds (that's from floppy, not from SSD...) and the OS only use less than 200 KB of RAM when idle

That's because back in the old days programmers had limited resources (RAM) and had to create compact code.

I didn't crashed it once (but Windows on the other hand...²).

Well Windows gets a bad rap because it's trying to run on all kinds of various hardware and it's limited by the drivers for that hardware. If it were like an Apple, like your Amiga, a locked in and known piece of hardware, Windows would have been made just for that hardware and the odds of it crashing all the time would never have existed.

 

[Bidule0hm]

Yep, exactly. But now it's like every company I worked for or I saw prefer the dirty, cheap and fast solution over the elegant, more expensive and longer solution... It may be a more or less good idea for short term but my past experiences says it's a bad idea for the long term.

Actually I also crashed Linux 2 (3?) times in my life... And I saw some iMacs crashing at my work too :) Never crashed FreeNAS though :P

 

[Black Ninja]

Exactly, can't agree more. I have a Amiga that boot in 8 seconds (that's from floppy, not from SSD...) and the OS only use less than 200 KB of RAM when idle (but Windows on the other hand...), and it's very stable, I didn't crashed it once (but Windows on the other hand...²).

Now it's like "yeah we have x GB of RAM, I don't care if I use x MB just to do this useless thing (or even useful thing but I can use 10x less RAM if I optimize it, but why optimize it? we have tons of RAM now...)", that's why I hate java (besides the others problems like being the biggest security hole I ever saw... and it's even portable thanks to the only "advantage" of java...) or bloated web sites who use a ton of CSS, JS and images to do useless things (usually to be "pretty", no even for the ergonomic...). Ok, I digress a bit too much maybe here... :p

I am glad you are seeing it too. That is exactly how they would say it :"...but why optimize it? we have tons of RAM now..."
The problem is the "programmers" should be a people who have a talent, skills and knowledge , not like we have now people with ambition to be programmers. People like Steve Gibson are example of what programmer should be. You don't need to tell him why it has to efficient , small or why use assembler instead of "modern" high level language. He already know what it takes and has it.

Hardware (no matter how powerfully) can't keep up with the human stupidity. Humans will always win that battle. When you have programmers that are there not because they are good at anything but because they have the ambition to have this job , that's the result. They just don't get it.


Like you said a slow old hardware with lightweight optimized for the job os, will always be much faster. Here is something perhaps happens to you too: Do you have non-geek friend who complain how their NEW computer was faster when they bought it , and only after 6 months is soooooooooo.... slow they need a new one they think ? And in a same time you give them your old laptop to try with lightweight os, optimized clean and strip down to minimum, and they can't believe how fast is it. Ring a bell ?;)

They think their PC become actually slower, They don't understand that hardware is not getting slower by being tired of 6 months work, the loads are getting much heaver that's the reason looks slower to them.

 

[joeschmuck]

Never crashed FreeNAS though :p

I have, a lot of times when I started out but FreeNAS 8 was new and it didn't always work well. Actually I caused a crash today but since it was intentional I don't think that counts.

Hardware (no matter how powerfully) can't keep up with the human stupidity. Humans will always win that battle. When you have programmers that are there not because they are good at anything but because they have the ambition to have this job , that's the result. They just don't get it.

Agreed

 

[Black Ninja]

Yep, exactly. But now it's like every company I worked for or I saw prefer the dirty, cheap and fast solution over the elegant, more expensive and longer solution... It may be a more or less good idea for short term but my past experiences says it's a bad idea for the long term.

Actually I also crashed Linux 2 (3?) times in my life... And I saw some iMacs crashing at my work too :) Never crashed FreeNAS though :p

That's cause no body thinks in a long run(not me or you obvious). And nobody fixes problems , now they patch them, postpone them or passing it on somebody else.

Crashing was issue in win95 or win98. Now I don't think is an issue anymore. Not that Win7 won't ever crash , but consider the complexity and ton of additional software that could cause the crash , I would said is pretty stable. Reliability was the only concern, now with win10 we have much worse enemy who is there for a reason.

I would never install win 10 in my house but, how you get ahead with hardware if you stop with software (win7). I would love to have NVMe SDD which are cost less than my first SSD, but gotta upgrade OS to use it. No way, I'll get a virus first.

 

[Black Ninja]

LOL, Yea, I'll give it to you, 14.4K modems on the internet were slow but so were the V.21 and V.22 modems which ran at 1200 and 2400 bps. I use to run a BBS back in the day and it used a 1200 bps modem and a separate phone line to support anyone calling in at any time, then the first internet like service in my area called Prodigy became available and an upgrade to double my speed was in order, the 2400 bps modem made all the difference in the world and I still retained that second dedicated phone line. ISPs started popping up a few years after Prodigy and they had more to offer, like better access to the real internet and everything was command line driven. Software was not very graphical at all but it was still fun.

My old days I remember started with 8 bit pc 1 MHz which didn't even floppy to save you work. And for comparison the place I had it was where not every home has telephone and electricity had a off hours several hours each day. Guess who was the rocket scientist back in a day for his own domain

 

[Bidule0hm]

Do you have non-geek friend who complain how their NEW computer was faster when they bought it , and only after 6 months is soooooooooo.... slow they need a new one they think ? And in a same time you give them your old laptop to try with lightweight os, optimized clean and strip down to minimum, and they can't believe how fast is it. Ring a bell ?;)

Yep. To keep the same example my Amiga is just responsive, even after years, even if you have several windows opened, no lag at all. And that is with a 14 MHz CPU and 2 MB of RAM... Yep, if you do it right you can run preemptive multi-task multi-windows OS on that hardware... :)

I have, a lot of times when I started out but FreeNAS 8 was new and it didn't always work well. Actually I caused a crash today but since it was intentional I don't think that counts.

I actually count only real crashes because I'm a programmer so I crashed systems many times on purpose or by accident when doing less than recommended things just to learn and have some fun (things like "what happens if you do a malloc() of 4 GB with only 2 GB of RAM?" :D).

 

[jgreco]

I would never install win 10 in my house but, how you get ahead with hardware if you stop with software (win7). I would love to have NVMe SDD which are cost less than my first SSD, but gotta upgrade OS to use it. No way, I'll get a virus first.:)

Ah, Win10 isn't so bad. Once you bludgeon Cortana to death, wipe out all the crApps, and start stripping out as much of the system as possible, then you mess with the telemetry stuff to cause it to FOAD, then the biggest objectionable bit becomes the forced updates, which I'm ambivalent about, but I've seen so many end user machines that never get upgraded, that I'm not too sure I actually view the strategy as anything more than a necessary evil.

 

[jgreco]

Yep. To keep the same example my Amiga is just responsive, even after years, even if you have several windows opened, no lag at all. And that is with a 14 MHz CPU and 2 MB of RAM... Yep, if you do it right you can run preemptive multi-task multi-windows OS on that hardware... :)

Fondly recalling the days of things like the AT&T UNIX pc, the Fortune 32:16, and the Sun 3/60.

We actually had a 3/60 (20 MHz Motorola 68020) running in production until about 2010. Not a *fast* machine, but it got its job done, pleasantly, reliably, responsively.

The 3/60 was certainly capable of running the X Window System and did so on as little as 4MB of RAM, though in later years XFree86 on FreeBSD was a much better end user experience. The 3/60 was something like 22 years old when we took it out of service.

I actually count only real crashes because I'm a programmer so I crashed systems many times on purpose or by accident when doing less than recommended things just to learn and have some fun (things like "what happens if you do a malloc() of 4 GB with only 2 GB of RAM?" :D).

... lots of swapping? ...

 

[Bidule0hm]

We actually had a 3/60 (20 MHz Motorola 68020) running in production until about 2010. Not a *fast* machine, but it got its job done, pleasantly, reliably, responsively.

Mmm M68k...

... lots of swapping? ...

More something like the system saying "No, I'll not let you do that!" :)

 

[AVB]

That makes two of us except for me it was for work.

I recall moving data around using 8" floppy discs because our 110 baud acoustic modems was just so slow so it was faster to just drive it across town. Of course that wasn't for work, but it was for school, High School.