IBM ServeRAID M1015 - Difference between LSI 9240-8i and LSI 9220-8i version

[snicke]

Some IBM ServeRAID M1015 HBA cards seem to be labeled LSI 9240-8i and others LSI 9220-8i (and maybe more labels?). Is there any difference hardware wise or is it just different default firmwares? I.e. can both be crossflashed to be an LSI 9211-8i in IT mode and function equally well?

I'm about to order this IBM ServeRAID M1012 card: http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-M1015-S...SAS9220-8i-46M0861-46M0831-FH-A-/171979162793

Does it seem authentic or any suspicions that it might be a fake card of some sort and why?

 

[Dice]

If patience is your friend:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-LSI-Int...579357?hash=item3aaf441b1d:g:338AAOSwHnFVwxjd

 

[snicke]

If patience is your friend:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-LSI-Int...579357?hash=item3aaf441b1d:g:338AAOSwHnFVwxjd

Yes I've seen that and many other unbelievably low offerings on Ebay from China. One could wonder how they can be so cheap... But did you read this and a lot of other discussions regarding the same matter: https://groups.google.com/a/zfsonlinux.org/forum/#!topic/zfs-discuss/ZILZT5qINSI Not even an LSI print ant the PCIe-print in another place compared to proven authentic ones. I'm very sceptical and don't think it's worth it to save a few tens of dollars and possibly put all your precious data at risk when it is a big investment in total. Could work great but could also be rejected cards for whatever good reason that someone got from the trash bin. Could even be replicas. Who knows? The weakest link you now...

On topic again. Anyone know the answer to my question in OP above and opinion if you think it's an authentic card or not. @jgreco? @Ericloewe? Anyone else?

 

[jgreco]

At $150 that isn't "how can this be so cheap." $75 is cheap.

The thing working for you in this case is that it seems to be from some DK place with a perfect feedback history, selling other server-y stuff, since 2007; an explanation of being pulls for upgrade would have made sense some years ago, when the M1015 was being sold (~2009-2011) or when the three year leasing cycle was up and companies were returning the servers (at which point they wouldn't be new pulls). Therefore the most alarming thing about this, to me, is just that someone's saying that they're new server pulls. That'd only make sense to me if they had been pulled and then sat on a shelf for a bunch of years. I don't have a loose M1015 right now to compare the image to, but IBM did make a bunch of FRU's of various M1015 subvariants.

I've bought a lot of stuff off eBay over the years. It's the nature of the business. I'd be more cautious if it was coming from Asia. I'd be more cautious if it was coming from some private seller (especially in California). The fact that it comes from an IT parts'er works in its favor. These factors don't make it legit. But if it were me, I'd be fairly comfortable taking a shot at it, and then hitting up eBay for a refund if it wasn't legit.

 

[snicke]

Thanks for a clever answer. I'm thinking similar regarding the "working for me" points. Of course it's really good that it's next door(ish) to me as a Swede also (Denmark). Delivery will take a couple of days max.

At $150 that isn't "how can this be so cheap." $75 is cheap.

Exactly. If I'm on the clear (and don't misunderstand you) you agree with me that the Chinese 9211-8i, which i believe normally is much more costly than an M1015, for $80 seems a little to cheap/good to be true while $150 for the M1015 seems reasonable in that sense or even little more expensive than desired.

an explanation of being pulls for upgrade would have made sense some years ago, when the M1015 was being sold (~2009-2011) or when the three year leasing cycle was up and companies were returning the servers (at which point they wouldn't be new pulls). Therefore the most alarming thing about this, to me, is just that someone's saying that they're new server pulls. That'd only make sense to me if they had been pulled and then sat on a shelf for a bunch of years.

Agreed, but you say 3 years leasing cycle. If you look closely at the picture the label on the card actually says "Made in Thailand 2012-04-03". If that can be true (can it?) then it make sense with pulls about now from servers that just have been upgraded don't you think? But i do seems odd to call them brand new. Has the servers been put on a shelf for three years an now they want to sell them but with som upgrade parts? What parts do they keep? Can you get any other useful information if you use the zoom functionality and look at the numbers of both sides of the card?
[/QUOTE]

Did you know if IBM M1015 labeled LSI 9240-81 is the same as LSI 9220-8i hardware vise?

 

[jgreco]

$75-$80 was the going price during the peak of what I perceived to be the lease-end window (~2012-2013 "ish") from a new hardware generation. This time period saw a large number of these cards from a large variety of parts-ers. Without actually being able to *prove* what was going on, my read of the situation was that a whole bunch of 2009-2010 era gear had been turned in at the end of lease. My guess was that some major hosting operation (Amazon? Google? I'm pretty sure Yahoo! was doing HP because I've got some HP's that clearly once belonged to them) had ditched the gear and that the market was flooded with them. For well over a year.

Now, yes, of course, the hardware wasn't sold exclusively in 2009-2010, and I would expect it was still available in 2013, so you're free to speculate on the origin of your card and whether it might fit the pattern. It doesn't seem to fit the pattern of "new pull", which raises legitimacy questions, but it could be that they were sitting in a box as spares, or got racked but never turned up, or the seller is outright mistaken as to the "new pull." I don't know. I'm just showing you how to read tea leaves. Your guess is actually likely to be better than mine, because you're thinking heavily about it, and have some money at mild risk.

I believe the primary difference between the 9220 and the 9240 is that the 9220 required a hardware key to enable the RAID5 functionality, while the 9240 does it in software. This might be accompanied by some other minor variations. The 9220 and 9211 are very similar except that I *think* the 9220 is the variant that LSI sells to OEM's to integrate with their own customized firmware. Actually trying to make sense out of all the part numbers is a bit challenging.

 

[snicke]

Thank you very much @jgreco. Yeah who knows. It's not much a money thing to me. Much more a "possibly put my data at risk" thing. Because actually I cannot get this card from a Swedish reseller that I would trust. Out of stock! Probably because they in fact aren't "brand new" and not manufactured anymore. ;)

But (important): I will be able to flash this card to become the community favorite card LSI 9211-8i (with version P20 - IT mode) to be used in FreeNAS 9.3.1?

BTW, this forum is awesome. And that's of course due to all awesome community seniors like you taking your time to answer all endless questions in very kind and intelligent ways. So a BIG thank you! :)

Now over to read your answer and links in the other thread about ZFS and jails/record size/rocket science etc... ;)

 

[jgreco]

Take the time to do proper burn in testing of your machine, and "possibly put data at risk" becomes a low risk - even with a "fake" card.

The IBM ServeRAID M1015 is in far heavier use around these forums than the legit LSI HBA card. It's a little more complicated to flash to begin with, but you should be able to find the resources here to help you.

It isn't just those of us who have a lot of seniority that make this community successful. I'm constantly running across new-ish users who have obviously done their homework and are now paying it forward to the next guy. Please do take that to heart, because it really makes it so much more pleasant for everyone. I don't have as much time as I'd like to concentrate on the forum, so it's always very awesome to see when someone else has already provided a good strong answer to a question I would have answered if I had seen it first.

 

[snicke]

And it is a "full height bracket" card I want @jgreco for an ordinary Fractal Design R5 chassi? Not a "low profile bracket" card?

 

[jgreco]

A low profile card is meant for special applications, where a full height bracket won't work. A *large* majority of the cards you might put into a server these days are half height cards, thanks to the ongoing en-small-ening of parts.

That's a 2U (3.5 inch high) server chassis. When fitted with a conventional mainboard (X10SRL etc) the available height for a slot is reduced. The low profile bracket allows a low profile card to work in that chassis and be secured properly.

That's a 2U server as well. However, by eschewing the normal ATX form factor for the mainboard and using a riser instead, four full height (and full length!) slots are fit into it along the left side of the chassis, plus somewhere from one to three more half height slots in the middle (depending on PCIe lane availability and possibly positioning of CPUs etc; the one in that picture looks like it can't handle any half heights to me due to the CPU)

Ideally it's good to get a card with both brackets, because even if you only need the full height bracket today, someday you might say "ah I really want to do this NAS differently" and end up in something with LP, like a 2U rackmount.

 

[MMacD]

Some IBM ServeRAID M1015 HBA cards seem to be labeled LSI 9240-8i and others LSI 9220-8i (and maybe more labels?). Is there any difference hardware wise or is it just different default firmwares? I.e. can both be crossflashed to be an LSI 9211-8i in IT mode and function equally well?

I'm about to order this IBM ServeRAID M1012 card: http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-M1015-S...SAS9220-8i-46M0861-46M0831-FH-A-/171979162793

Does it seem authentic or any suspicions that it might be a fake card of some sort and why?

I just compared it to one I bought off a seller who has 100% goodness (which doesn't mean as much as it should, but it is better than 95% goodness). My one has a manufacture year of 2010 compared to the one you're thinking about whose label says 2012. Of course, if El Greco is right and they quit making them in 2011, a 2012 date doesn't sound so good. But the silkscreen looks right and if 2012 is still okay, then the various serial, ECO, and similar numbers don't look unreasonable for a board 2 years younger than the one I have.

On the other hand, a guy in Denmark having at least 27 cards on sale, all of them "new and unused"? Sounds fishy to me, or more exactly, Chinese-counterfeitish. In your place, I might ask him how he came by so many and see whether his response sounds plausible...and even whether you get a response (I find that I usually don't when I ask searching questions like that, and that causes me to tiptoe quickly away).

 

[jgreco]

Just to be clear, I didn't say they quit making them in 2011. It's just that there was a heavy influx of them in a certain period. Since SAS 12Gbps wasn't introduced until recently, I'm sure they continued to make them.

Regardless, you're asking the right sort of question ... identifying the history of a card with a slightly skeptical eye for bull**** is a healthy thing for eBay purchasers.

 

[snicke]

Sent this questions to the seller yesterday:

"Hi,

I'm interested in the M1015. But one thing that doesn't make sense to me is how you can say that the card is "brand new"? They were produced until about 3 years ago. I find it really unlikely/odd that the servers have been put on a shelf for three years and now IBM wants to sell them but with some upgraded parts like this card. Sell a 3 year old unused/brand new server with some upgraded parts when IBM not even sell these kind of servers anymore (Lenovo now)? Doesn't make sense. Would have made much more sense if you said that the card has been used in a server (not brand new) for three years.

Can you elaborate around this to try to convince me?

Look here for a discussion regarding this (and please also answer the question in the header of the post): http://bit.ly/1RyzrhY.

I'm going to use this card in a FreeNAS containing my precious family photos, movies etc. But then I want to be 100% sure that it's not fake or a rejected card from the manufacturer due to quality problems."

Got this answer:

"Hi

Thank you for your message.

The cards are brand new, pulled from new servers as stated in the auction. You are correct that the servers are several years old now and have probably been used since purchase. However my supplier have told me that these cards were pulled from the servers when they were purchased and have been in storage since then. They are therefore new.

These are not fake or rejected cards.

Best regards"

 

[jgreco]

Plausible. The other thing potentially working in your favor, besides the apparent legitimacy of your seller, is that I can't recall having seen a report of knockoff M1015's recently. 9211-8i's, yes, M1015's, no. The Shenzhen back alley mafia don't seem to produce small runs of unpopular gear. It may be that the era of rampant M1015 counterfeits is behind us, but since it's your money, all I can really do is tell you what I think and why I think it, and it's your problem at the end of the day.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but I try to be realistic.

 

[MMacD]

Just to be clear, I didn't say they quit making them in 2011. It's just that there was a heavy influx of them in a certain period.

Ah, sorry, I misread.

 

[MMacD]

"Hi

[that vendor wrote]However my supplier have told me that these cards were pulled from the servers when they were purchased and have been in storage since then. They are therefore new.

These are not fake or rejected cards.

I feel a bit suspicious of the explanation because I can't think of a good reason why, if they were straightaway replaced by better cards, they were shelved rather than sold off immediately. They were never going to go back into the boxes they came from, and changes in technology would make it unlikely that they'd increase in value if kept, so what was the motive for keeping them around?

The guy who wants to sell to you might be straight but being scammed by his supplier (if there is one). On the other hand, the silkscreen and labels do look plausible, something (the labels especially) the Shenzhen scammers typically don't bother to get right because they don't expect their buyers to know what to look for.

But any hardware, even brand-new units from a top-rated fab like Supermicro, can suddenly go bad. All we can do is try to spread the risk.

Like you, I'm concerned mainly about keeping my files from becoming corrupted or disappearing completely. What I'm doing is creating several 3-way mirror groups, and making sure that in each group of three mirrors one of them is on a different controller to the other two. I'm also making sure that every mounting point for a fan in the case has a good-quality fan installed (heat is the principal killer of hardware, and especially of disc drives). A power supply, going bad, is another hardware killer, but I haven't yet found a monitor that will independently watch the outputs and complain if they start going off-track. But I'm still looking!

 

[jgreco]

If you do any work with datacenter-class operations, this kind of thing isn't that unusual. You place an order with your purchasing department for a bunch of gear. They see that there's a special on a prebuilt version of the server that's close to what you spec, and it's cheaper to get the prebuilt-plus-a-separate-controller. Now you have a bunch of hardware shipped to the datacenter. You pay a data center tech to install it, upgrading the cards as they go. The pulled cards get stuffed in a tote. And left in a corner of the cage, because no instructions were left regarding them. Nobody in the office cares enough to figure out what happened to the cards because it is basically a tangential issue to the engineering going on. Cards sit. Nobody notices until one day someone wonders what's in the totes taking up valuable cage space.

In some cases (especially leasing), you might not even be ABLE to sell the hardware, because strictly speaking it isn't yours. So in the model where you go and lease the servers and then buy them for a dollar at the end of the lease, you actually HAVE to hold on to the cards, because selling the leasing company's cards would be theft.

This isn't hypothetical. Seen it happen, often enough.

 

[gpsguy]

While not cards, we have to store boxes of power bricks for VOIP phones. With POE, they are unneeded.

...you actually HAVE to hold on to the cards, because selling the leasing company's cards would be theft.

Sent from my phone

 

[jgreco]

Yeah, obviously that applies to lots of stuff. I never cease to be amazed at the amount of hardware sitting idle in the cage. Hard drives. SSD's. RAM. CPU's sometimes. Complete servers.

 

[snicke]

Plausible. The other thing potentially working in your favor, besides the apparent legitimacy of your seller, is that I can't recall having seen a report of knockoff M1015's recently. 9211-8i's, yes, M1015's, no. The Shenzhen back alley mafia don't seem to produce small runs of unpopular gear. It may be that the era of rampant M1015 counterfeits is behind us, but since it's your money, all I can really do is tell you what I think and why I think it, and it's your problem at the end of the day.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but I try to be realistic.

You are realistic and that's a good thing and it is my problem at the end of the day, that's just fact. But with that said, thanks for all the valuable input. The card is ordered. :)

Thanks to all other input contributor also in this thread. It's a true pleasure hanging here... :)