I need a System Sanity Check

[George D.]

Wow, there are a bewildering array system set ups. The more I research, the less convinced I am about what system I want to use. I could use your help.

My Goals:
1. File Backup- I would like to be able to backup my computers (4 users and 4 different computers)
2. Run Plex, Bit Torrents, Couch Potato and Download Movies to the NAS for use by all users.
3. Allow remote access to two other family members that are not local to me.
4. Modest amount of storage, say 6 to 9 TB usable (IE: 4 each 2 or 3 TB drives with single parity).

I have a bad habit of price creep, meaning I always tend to creep to the higher end components. But this time I want good performance without overkill. What CPU is the minimum necessary to not be the bottleneck. Assume that I am going to use 16 GB of ECC UDIMM. I currently have the following:

System #1: AMD 8230E (yes it supports ECC memory) with an Asus M5A97 R2.0 Motherboard (also supports ECC). (Left over parts so $0 additional out of pocket)
I know that I need to purchase an Intel NIC

I have looked into the following low cost solutions:

System #2: Core I3 -6300 LGA 1151 with Asrock H170M Pro4 (approximately $220)

System #3: Xeon E3 1231 V3 LGA 1150 with Supermicro MBD-X10SLM-F-O (approximately $400)

These are the lower end systems I have been considering. I already have the AMD FX 8 core processor and motherboard. Will I get good performance with the AMD system or do I really need to go Intel? If Intel, do I really need the Xeon?

 

[joeschmuck]

Modest amount of storage, say 6 to 9 TB usable (IE: 4 each 2 or 3 TB drives with single parity).

You need to look at a RAID caclulator (see my tagline). Your estimates are a bit low. Also when you use 3TB or larger drives (due to resilverinf times) you should look at RAIDZ2 vice RAIDZ1 but the risk is yours. Also don't forget to add 20% as well to the capacity as you need to leave 20% free for good pool health. This means I would recommend you have six 3TB hard drives which would give you would have ~8.5TB of usable storage.

Will I get good performance with the AMD system or do I really need to go Intel?

You should get good performance with the AMD system but you will be the minority in the group to have an AMD system. Since your costs are $0 with the exception of the NIC card to add, you should be good to start. The good thing here is if you find out you really do need a system with more RAM (likely your only limitation) then you haven't wasted any real money here. If you curently have non-ECC RAM, at least 8GB, give FreeNAS a try, ensure it does what you desire. If it all works then just upgrade to ECC RAM and save a ton of money. Also try FreeNAS 10 beta since that will be coming out soon. It should run on your AMD system but you should want to test it if you can.

 

[George D.]

Thanks for the Raid calculator! The calculator has caused me to reconsider my drives.

The costs are based on buying the CPU from Microcenter. With the LGA 1150 MoBo, I have to use server grade because of the lack of ECC compatible desktop motherboards. With the LGA 1151, I can use desktop motherboards that support ECC memory (CPU cost goes up, but MoBo costs go way down)

Very sound advice for use of the AMD system. You are right, I am not risking any additional money by trying the system out. Thank you for your time and wisdom!!!!!!

Also, I am looking at WD red drives. Is intellipower preferred over 5400 rpm? Or should I be looking at higher rpm's?

 

[Ericloewe]

Asrock H170M Pro4

Doesn't support ECC.

 

[George D.]

Asrock H170M Pro4- As it turns out, you are correct. Microcenter listed the Asrock H170M Pro4 as supporting both ECC and Non-ECC memory. I just visited the Asrock web site and they list the following: Supports ECC UDIMM memory modules (operate in non-ECC mode) . Why support ECC if you can only operate in non-ECC mode???? Thanks for the info.

Asus M5A97 R2.0- This is the board I currently have and the Asus website states the following: 4 x DIMM, Max. 32GB, DDR3 2133(O.C.)/1866/1600/1333/1066 MHz ECC, Non-ECC, Un-buffered Memory I assume this means they support ECC and I can actually operate in ECC mode. What are your thoughts?

 

[George D.]

I looked at your system and noticed the Core I3-6300. I was considering a system with a Core I3 and wanted to know how it is performing for you. Are you getting good performance from this CPU, or is a Xeon a must have for NAS?

 

[RodyMcAmp]

I vote for system 3, and also vote for trying your AMD system first for to test for compatibility and stability. Where are you getting your prices? That motherboard on system 3 is only $179 at amazon.

 

[MrToddsFriends]

Asrock H170M Pro4- [...] Asus M5A97 R2.0 [...] ECC

None of the Intel Desktop Chipsets supports operation in ECC mode
http://ark.intel.com/#@Chipsets

Running ECC DIMMs in non-ECC mode usually makes no sense.

Also, I am looking at WD red drives. Is intellipower preferred over 5400 rpm? Or should I be looking at higher rpm's?

Intellipower essentially means 5400 rpm
https://www.wdc.com/content/dam/wdc/website/downloadable_assets/eng/spec_data_sheet/2879-800002.pdf

Many forum members prefer 5400 rpm drives as these consume less power and are easier to cool.

 

[Pitfrr]

Since you don't have to put any money out for the system 1, I would use it as backup of your main system (and you could use it as test platform as well).
Well maybe you already have a backup solution... but otherwise you'll have to consider your backup solution. Add some disks and you're good to go.

I'd say even if you use system 1 without ECC RAM it could be acceptable for a backup system (and considering not exploding your budget!)?

 

[George D.]

I vote for system 3, and also vote for trying your AMD system first for to test for compatibility and stability. Where are you getting your prices? That motherboard on system 3 is only $179 at amazon.

The price is for the motherboard plus CPU. The Xeon is very tempting and I would love to get my hands on a supermicro board. My computer budget for last year (2016) was spent on an "enthusiast" gaming system for my son. We did the classic overkill with GTX 1080's and a kick but Core I7 with custom water cooling. It was a very fun system to build. I inherited his old gaming system and I have the AMD 8 core system left over. So my thoughts were to re-purpose the AMD into an NAS. I am really sold on the NAS system as my next project and other members of my family are showing an interest in having use of the NAS. I am going to start with the AMD system as a learning system. "JoeSmuck" gave me good advice on that one. But I will start collecting the components for the next NAS which will be Intel.

 

[George D.]

None of the Intel Desktop Chipsets supports operation in ECC mode
http://ark.intel.com/#@Chipsets

I don't see where the information on the chipset addresses ECC support at all. Perhaps I am missing something. The most information listed is for the number of DIMMS per channel (if any memory information is listed at all.)

For example- Gigabyte GA X150m Pro ECC motherboard (about $100)- the Gigabyte website references the Intel C232 chipset and states "Support for ECC Un-buffered DIMM 1Rx8/2Rx8 memory modules* ECC support may vary by CPU." This should mean I can use ECC. However, we saw that the Asrock board above supports ECC as long as you operate without using ECC. This is important because I can use a max of 64 GB of ram and 6 SATA 6Gb/sec all for around $100. That is a huge savings. Savings that can be used on the CPU.

What are your thoughts on using ECC with a board like this? I am learning and don't mind making mistakes (before I buy, lol)

 

[George D.]

Many forum members prefer 5400 rpm drives as these consume less power and are easier to cool.

Thanks for the information. It took a little research to sell myself on using WD reds, and I will go through the data sheet to learn more.

What computer building knowledge I have is in the gaming world. I am not a gamer myself, but I have built a few systems for others that are good to excellent gaming systems. Building computers is a fun hobby for me.

That being said, there is a steep learning curve for server type builds. There are likely huge differences between gaming and server motherboards that I have to learn. Heck, I did not even know what ECC was until I looked into building a NAS. I had to google the acronym and then convince myself that it was needed.

 

[wblock]

The Gigabyte X150M Pro ECC does not have any built-in video. However, there was a report on the FreeBSD forums over the weekend that it would boot without video. So add a video board temporarily for installation, then remove it for actual use.

I can't speak to the functionality of that board, but have been very curious about it. It does not have the features of an equivalent Supermicro, like IPMI, multiple Ethernet ports, or internal USB, but for a small NAS, those are not required.

The ECC supported with the right processors bit is expected. Don't expect it to provide ECC on the processors that Intel does not want to be used with ECC, like the i5 and i7. Otherwise, I would expect a motherboard called "Pro ECC" to support ECC with the Pentium, i3, and Xeon processors.

 

[MrToddsFriends]

I don't see where the information on the chipset addresses ECC support at all. Perhaps I am missing something. The most information listed is for the number of DIMMS per channel (if any memory information is listed at all.)

You are right, unfortunately Intel doesn't provide this detail explicitly in the tabulated information about their chipsets. However, it's an an unwritten law for many years that Intel desktop chipsets are not able to handle ECC, because Intel wants one to buy a board with a server chipset if one wants to have this functionality. With this information in mind, the link I provided is a quick overview about Intel chipsets.

However, we saw that the Asrock board above supports ECC as long as you operate without using ECC. [...] What are your thoughts on using ECC with a board like this?

To have ECC protection for main memory, CPU, chipset and memory modules have to support it. Using ECC modules with a board that doesn't support ECC doesn't result in ECC protection. This simply means that ECC memory modules can be used in this board without ECC protection (maybe because you have some spare pare parts lying around, for example).

In case you didn't come across the Hardware Recommendations Guide:
https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?resources/hardware-recommendations-guide.12/

 

[George D.]

In case you didn't come across the Hardware Recommendations Guide:
https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?resources/hardware-recommendations-guide.12/

Wow, the guide is somewhat "harsh" on the topic of consumer motherboards, but it does shed some light on my choices. My goal is to build a system that allows me to take full advantage of FreeNAS. I do not want to be limited by my hardware choices. Limited by budget is ok, but purchasing the wrong hardware is not ok.

Right now I have the option of doing a trial run with a consumer grade motherboard and an AMD 8 core cpu. However, I still have to purchase the hard-drives. Here's the thing. Once I purchase the drives, I really don't think I will want to use them for a trial run. I will likely want to use them in the final build.

If I use the new drives in a trial run, can I reinstall the drives in a new build without loosing the data or the NAS setup?

 

[RodyMcAmp]

in FreeNAS 9.x it is very simple to import pools, and I can't imagine it will be any harder in FreeNAS 10. As far as moving the FreeNAS installation I have moved mine 3 times and have had no issues... that were FreeNAS fault.

 

[joeschmuck]

But I will start collecting the components for the next NAS which will be Intel.

I wouldn't even go down that path today since you have a system which will support FreeNAS now, that AMD system.

When FreeNAS 10 comes out, if your AMD system does fail to work (which I doubt) then you can run ESXi on that AMD system and run FreeNAS on top of that. It's not ideal if you really wanted to run a true hardware NAS but it gives you that flexibility if you need it.

If you still want to just upgrade to a nice Intel system, well you got the time to do your research and get it right. Buy a good motherboard, CPU, figure out how much RAM you really think you need, find the perfect case for your cool new system. Next you would run all the burn-in testing on that new system and eventually you move over your hard drives and BAM! you got a new Intel based NAS. To be 100% honest, the only reason I switched from my AMD system (now my ESXi System 2) from running FreeNAS was becasue I really like to play around and I wanted a system with 64GB RAM and wanted to have a single computer that ran everything. My AMD system with 16GB RAM was very fine for everything I did with it as a FreeNAS system. Well it turns out that running a firewall on that same computer was not very smart, it's best to have a separate system for the firewall, one you will not reboot often and have the family yell at you for the internet dropping. So my AMD system is now running ESXi and in that I have FreeNAS 9.10.2 running (my backup system) and my firewall. My Intel system runs my primary FreeNAS system and several VMs.

 

[George D.]

have the family yell at you for the internet dropping

That is to funny......big smiles when I read that.

You have given me a lot of new terms to look up and now my sanity check is complete. I will dedicate time to getting the AMD up and running FreeNAS. I like the concept of buying the hardware over time, especially since I just finished the overkill gaming rig for my son. I would imagine running FreeNAS will help me define what capabilities I need for the Intel build.

I always use Intel when building computers for family members. For me, I could never justify using more than AMD for my personal use until now. Thanks for your help and I now have a direction to go in. Seriously, Thanks.

 

[RodyMcAmp]

one you will not reboot often and have the family yell at you for the internet dropping

I lol at this as well.... very familiar sound at my house. I did read an article about firewall fail over, could run 2 instances of pfsense and then update 1 at a time if the auto fail over works... I think this will be my next project.

 

[joeschmuck]

I lol at this as well.... very familiar sound at my house. I did read an article about firewall fail over, could run 2 instances of pfsense and then update 1 at a time if the auto fail over works... I think this will be my next project.

I just run one firewall and if I need to take it down or the firewall fails for some reason, I have my normal router which I have setup so anyone could easily move the ethernet cables around and get it up and running again. It may not be as good as the software firewall however it does minimize the complaints.