Sanity check request

[nw_viking]

Hi!

I have been a lurker for a while, and done some searches before asking, but I still don't have the "warm fuzzy feeling" for pulling the trigger to make the purchase (again)! Regarding my general background, I have built most of my PCs, I am comfortable with administering linux at home, but no wizard. I was about to pull the trigger on setting up a freenas system last fall, and purchased a used HP blade server with 2CPUs, 6x2GB ECC memory, but ran into some problems.

1. Too noisy, and no CAT5 wiring to my garage. HP ProLiant DL180 G6

2. No access to SATA hard drives as JBOD (just a bunch of disks), on boot, the server would automatically assign the disks to a RAID array. This was if putting hard drives in the disk plane of the blade server.

I am restarting the project, with the intention of salvaging the CPUs and memory from the server, the CPUs are L5630 40W XEONs.

The target freenas is a 6 disk system of RAIDZ2, which should give me capacity of 4 disks, if I understand it right.

The purpose is to store family photos and videos without bit rot and also provide a general reliable network drive for my home. I would prioritize quiet operation and low power consumption over performance. Currently, I probably have on the order of 500GB of data I care about, but I expect it to keep growing.

Here is the proposed system:
1. Motherboard: X8DTU-6TF+
https://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/QPI/5500/X8DTU_.cfm?TYP=SAS&LAN=10
2. CPU(s): one or two XEON L5630
3. Memory: 6x2GB DDR-3, 10800 ECC
4. Drives: 6x?TB WD red drives. I am leaning towards 4TB, as that seems like price sweet spot, but I don't see myself exceeding 16 TB for 5-10 years.
5. Case TBD
6. Power supply TBD.
7. Boot drive TBD, perhaps recyle a 110GB SSD.

Q1: Is there any problem with the proposed motherboard?

I have seen a few suggestions for cost effective systems on this website, but they do seem to use much more power hungry processors than what I have.

Q2: Any suggestions for cases and power supplies? I would like a tower with somewhat quiet operation, I don't mind opening it for access to the drives.

Q3: Can I use a more compact tower case if using a different motherboard, for example this one?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Supermicro...rd-Dual-LGA-1366-Intel-5520-DDR3/123944859819

Anyway, sorry if I am asking the obvious or posting in the wrong forum, this is an honest attempt at following the guidelines.

PS: Thanks for hosting this very informative site

 

[joeinaz]

"Q1: Is there any problem with the proposed motherboard?

My concern is the proposed motherboard has a proprietary form factor. This may limit the choice of case. If it were me looking at an X8 board, I would consider the X8DTL-iF. The aforementioned board supports dual CPUs and up to 96GB of memory in a ATX form factor. A standard form factor motherboard allows for a large choice in cases.

"Q2: Any suggestions for cases and power supplies? I would like a tower with somewhat quiet operation, I don't mind opening it for access to the drives."

The choice of case is dependent on your motherboard form factor. Front panel removable disk ports are nice if it fits in your budget. As for the power supply, it is the one thing not to go cheap on. I recommend a good quality, brand name unit providing least 500w. Also remember if you choose a dual CPU motherboard, you should look at a server power supply that supports dual 8 pin CPU connectors. Another possibility is a cable that converts a 4 pin molex connector to an 8 pin power supply.

"Q3: Can I use a more compact tower case if using a different motherboard, for example this one?"

The motherboard in your example is an E-ATX form factor which requires a large tower case. The benefit of an E-ATX case is some of them support a large number of disks. My Lian-Li PC-A76 case supports 12 disks internally. The disadvantage of E-ATX cases is they can be very large, very expensive and there are relatively small number of choices compared to ATX cases (thus the suggestion of the X8DTL-iF ATX form factor motherboard).

 

[nw_viking]

Thanks for the great suggestions.

Indeed, I have no need for an E-ATX form factor board, and until now, I was not aware of the E-ATX standard.

I did order the X8DTL-iF motherboard you suggested, looking at cases, on the high price:

https://www.amazon.com/SilverStone-Technology-SST-CS380B-USA-Computer-CS380B-USA/dp/B07KTCSWPP/

on the cheap side:

https://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-HAF-912-Supporting/dp/B003ZM7YTA

Although unclear from the documentation whether it can hold 6x3.5 inch WD Red drives.

Does spacing between drives matter?

With the SilverStone case, there is room for 8 stacked drives, so I can fill slots 1,2,4,5,7,8, leaving 2 gaps in the stack.

Any favorite cases for 6 drives?

Thanks!

 

[1kokies]

Indeed, I have no need for an E-ATX form factor board, and until now, I was not aware of the E-ATX standard.

ATX, E-ATX and SSI-EEB, these are the mobo standards need to look out for, relative to the case. Those proprietary HP/Dell/IBM boards need to check and on top need to see the on board header/connector (some are a plug). Tower cases can normally fit an E-ATX but SSI-EEB there will be 3 screws that cannot fit, it is still ok as other screws holds the board. Now if a board can fit, need to see the offset space means the surrounding whether you want extra fans, hdd bays, cables etc etc.

I did order the X8DTL-iF motherboard you suggested, looking at cases, on the high price:

my experience with Supermicro, very recommended but take note of the heat sink fan spacing. this model has square ILM and if your heat sink is 120mm fans they will sit very close to each other. That's why Supermicro sells their own fans, they cramp lots into ATX size mobo. Differing models too and careful of the fan sizes, some are very loud spinning. The larger the fans the more silent, but if you have a server room it is ok.

https://www.amazon.com/SilverStone-Technology-SST-CS380B-USA-Computer-CS380B-USA/dp/B07KTCSWPP/

i used to house a Freenas server in a Silverstone Temjin TJ11 and now i have switched to a Lian Li A77. Your target case looks nice, fits ATX but i am not sure if the hotswap works, that's why it is expensive. And the top 2 x 5.25 bays you can insert after market hdd bays to add 3 more hdd totaling 11 hdd.
The Cooler Master 912 is not a full tower, the 932 is much better and can fit even an SSI-EEB mobo. i tend to lean to Cooler Masters as they are steel (heavy but steady) and HAF is has good ventilation but accumulates dust ya. And all their parts can actually be removed and very universal. 912's front panel cannot be removed from outside. i have both these cases.

Any favorite cases for 6 drives?

i would look for cases that has many 5.25" slots, add hdd bays (hdd bays/cage that converts 2x5.25" to 3 hdd) and the case can last for long time expansion.

Hope this helps

 

[nw_viking]

I did look for Cooler Master 932 , seems like it is out of production or out of stock, don't see any on newegg, amazon nor ebay. :-(

Anyway, thanks for great suggestions, I will search for case recommendations.

Viking

 

[joeinaz]

As for the case, there are two ways to go; first, if you don't mind fixed disk configurations, get a case that is designed to hold six (or more) internal 3.5" disks and make sure there are plenty of fans to cool things. The second option is to get a case with many (at least six) 5.25" removable front bays and add removable disk enclosures. Depending on the removable disk enclosure, you maybe able to accommodate up to 15 disks in a mid tower.

One of my favorite cases is the Antec 900. It has nine 5.25" bays and can house nine 3.5" disks right out of the box. The top has an enormous 200mm fan for cooling and other fans for additional cooling. Below is a link from Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Antec-Nine-H..._1_2?keywords=antec+900&qid=1571985248&sr=8-2

If you have a bigger budget you may consider the iStar "4 in 3" disk enclosure. I have 3 in my Antec 900 system for a total of 12 disks. I can remove and replace a disk in less than 10 seconds. Here is a picture:

 

[joeinaz]

On a budget, here is an idea:

https://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Maste...words=Cooler+Master+932&qid=1571986345&sr=8-1

 

[nw_viking]

Thanks for great suggestions.

I would buy the coolermaster HAF 932 if it were available, but no supplier seems to have any in stock.

I was within seconds of hitting the buy button for this case:

https://www.amazon.com/SilverStone-...SA-Computer-CS380B-USA/dp/B07KTCSWPP/?ozlp-20

It seems like all hardware needed for 8 hot swappable drives is built in. However, reading through the questions and comments, this stood out:


There is a sort of circuit board behind each drive bay and if I recall correctly, it's not daisy chain. The chassis is a good idea. The implementation sucks , there is 2 major problem with the chassis.
1. Heat Heat Heat. The design means the chasiss and the disk runs hot , and trust me, I tried various modifications to reduce the heat, especially for the HDD.
2. The circuit board present a additional load which significantly increase the amp requirement , and can cause a trip during power up if the HDD bays are fully loaded.

Seems like 2 fans blowing directly on the disks is great, but lack of heat sing on the disks is not great.

Perhaps this commenter was using it as a workstation with graphics card instead of headless NAS?

Does anybody have this case? (SST-CS380B)

 

[1kokies]

There is a sort of circuit board behind each drive bay and if I recall correctly, it's not daisy chain. The chassis is a good idea. The implementation sucks , there is 2 major problem with the chassis.
1. Heat Heat Heat. The design means the chasiss and the disk runs hot , and trust me, I tried various modifications to reduce the heat, especially for the HDD.
2. The circuit board present a additional load which significantly increase the amp requirement , and can cause a trip during power up if the HDD bays are fully loaded.

Seems like 2 fans blowing directly on the disks is great, but lack of heat sing on the disks is not great.

Perhaps this commenter was using it as a workstation with graphics card instead of headless NAS?

Does anybody have this case? (SST-CS380B)

my opinion

1. Perhaps too many interfaces to achieve hot swap. Is this the main attraction to you ?
2. See one of the case i have. Front loading hdd, ventilation at front, fans at back of hdd, ample offset space at mobo.

 

[Jessep]

If you have a solid well tested well cooled system populated with fully tested drives you will likely only need to swap a drive every 2-3 years.

Hot swap REALLY isn't needed in a home system.

How much time, effort, money do you want to put into something that you do once every few years?

 

[nw_viking]

Thanks to Jessep and 1kokies.

I have no interest in hot swapping, only design that keeps the drives cool. No problem screwing in 24 screws for 6 drives.

I did order this enclosure:

https://www.amazon.com/SilverStone-...SA-Computer-CS380B-USA/dp/B07KTCSWPP/?ozlp-20

Not because of the easy swapping, but because there are 2 fan's blowing straight onto the drives. I liked the other suggestions about Antec 900 and Coolermaster HAF 932, but the availability is really poor, one is not available, the other ships in 1-3 months. My Freenas user work colleague (who told me about freenas) has been happy with this enclosure, so I am discounting the one bad review complaining about heat as user error.

Do you have any suggestions for testing prior to deploying the drives? Is there something built into Freenas?

If trusting the seller, I would go for 6x2TB WD Red drives and order 6 plus a spare right now. Has anybody ordered hard drives from Essex Technology Group?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008JJLZ7G/

This one has same price/TB as the 4TB drives. I have heard about people getting refurbished drives when they think the price is really good. Seller is not Amazon, but third party Essex Technology Group:

https://www.amazon.com/sp?_encoding...rderID=&seller=ALGI22DCR8EFU&tab=&vasStoreID=

Buying from Amazon costs $10 more per drive, and ships in 2-4 weeks.

 

[1kokies]

Thanks to Jessep and 1kokies.

I have no interest in hot swapping, only design that keeps the drives cool. No problem screwing in 24 screws for 6 drives.

I did order this enclosure:

https://www.amazon.com/SilverStone-...SA-Computer-CS380B-USA/dp/B07KTCSWPP/?ozlp-20

Not because of the easy swapping, but because there are 2 fan's blowing straight onto the drives. I liked the other suggestions about Antec 900 and Coolermaster HAF 932, but the availability is really poor, one is not available, the other ships in 1-3 months. My Freenas user work colleague (who told me about freenas) has been happy with this enclosure, so I am discounting the one bad review complaining about heat as user error.

Do you have any suggestions for testing prior to deploying the drives? Is there something built into Freenas?

If trusting the seller, I would go for 6x2TB WD Red drives and order 6 plus a spare right now. Has anybody ordered hard drives from Essex Technology Group?

after your build perhaps can give reviews on the case ya. For the disks i actually don't and just plug it in, but i set the long smart scan on periodic after that.
When i started i used 12 x 4TB (raidz2 and raidz1 in different pools), and had i known i would have used 8TB hdd. And i would create a pool with 1 vdev in raidz2, each vdev 4 hdd. That way if there is hardware failure and for mission critical data, i could export and import the mission critical pool into another temporary Freenas server. I could even bring it offsite. The smaller the vdev physical hdd the easier the case. So it depends on what data and how they are deployed, but do give some serious thoughts into it, raid type, physical hdd, pools, you have a nice mobo and case already. The disks are always the highest cost and in my opinion the most important. i use Ironwolf for all.

This one has same price/TB as the 4TB drives. I have heard about people getting refurbished drives when they think the price is really good. Seller is not Amazon, but third party Essex Technology Group:

disks integrity is very important, tried that and won't go there anymore.