Home Server Questions - lots of questions....

[Robert Trevellyan]

Currently, my plan if it makes sense... Is to run 2 vdevs, each with 9x3TB in Z2. I know this is only 22% redundancy, but that data isn't mission critical. Is this not safe?

Only you can decide if it's 'safe', based on your risk tolerance. Whatever your level of redundancy, it doesn't replace the need for backing up any data you care about. The thing I like least about this layout is that you can't add a matching 3rd 9 disk vdev. The thing I like next least is that you're buying a bunch more 3TB disks.

By the way, what model are your 3TB Seagates? Please don't say ST3000DM001.

 

[LIGISTX]

How many hours do you have on the existing 3 TB drives?

Have you looked at their SMART data? Any problems with them?



Like Robert Trevellyan, I'd recommend 6 disk RAIDz2 vdevs. Sure, you'll lose 1/3 of the space to overhead, but you'll only need an additional 6 disks in the future, to add another vdev to the pool.

I'd look at starting with 6x6TB drives and copying your existing data onto it. And, add another 6x3TB vdev using your existing disks. Depending on age, condition, remaining warranty on the 3TB drives, you may need to use your extra disks to cover dying disks.

Save up for 6 additional 6TB drives and either add another vdev or replace the 3TB drives with 6TB drives.

Given your use case, I wouldn't buy any more 3TB drives.

I don't have smart data on them with my current setup :/

I will try and get more info. About to leave my house so I'll get back to you.

Only you can decide if it's 'safe', based on your risk tolerance. Whatever your level of redundancy, it doesn't replace the need for backing up any data you care about. The thing I like least about this layout is that you can't add a matching 3rd 9 disk vdev. The thing I like next least is that you're buying a bunch more 3TB disks.

By the way, what model are your 3TB Seagates? Please don't say ST3000DM001.

Not sure. I will get back to you. All good ideas tho!

Thanks!!



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[Robert Trevellyan]

Is there any particular reason for this?

ZFS tries to dynamically balance vdev usage based on various performance and capacity factors. Identical vdevs will result in balanced usage and maximum performance. Divergent vdevs will not be used equally, so performance will be less than optimal. In your usage scenario, this loss of performance should be of no consequence. Nevertheless, I would want my vdevs to at least have the same number of spindles - more warm fuzzies for me.

 

[Stux]

Ok, so after creating a helpful little cheat sheet, as of today's prices, 4TB's would be best. But I plan to test out the used hardware I got for a while which will put me near Black Friday when I will actually be ready to throw drives in and test them.... So I figure I should just wait and see if there are any epic sales on drives.

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The other thing is you've neglected to add 'bay cost' into your calculation.

Ie total system cost / total bays

Which bumps the math towards bigger drives when you factor in bay cost.

I'd either add a few more 3TB And go with 2 x 6 x 3TB in RaidZ2.

OR

go with 1 x 8 x 3TB In Raidz2 and a warm spare (i.e. Pre-checked, but on a shelf)

Then add another 8 disk vdev of whatever size is the best bang for buck taking into account bay cost and projected usage.

Then repeat when you run out of disk space.

Then replace the 3TB vdev when you run out of disk space again.

Which leads to the benefit of 6 way vdevs, smaller buy/replacement cycles.

 

[Stux]

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Not really understanding why your not looking at 8x4TB

 

[LIGISTX]

Not really understanding why your not looking at 8x4TB

I was. The iteration before this had that as the final future addition. But. I am trying to maximize and optimize everything. I just didn't want to do all of this hard drive buying etc just to add like 9TB of usable space to my current array which is why I figured maybe add another 3TB to each vdev to boost it another 6TB. At dinner tho, will come home and crunch some numbers again in a bit.

The previous iteration:

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[joeschmuck]

Mixing drive models will not be an issue in your situation. So if you purchased some WD Greens and mixed them with your 7200 Seagates, the earth will not stop rotating. Also, there is no firmware upgrade to change a Green into a Red that I'm aware of. If you know of one, please share. All I'm aware of is WDIDLE which only changed the head parking timer.

 

[LIGISTX]

Mixing drive models will not be an issue in your situation. So if you purchased some WD Greens and mixed them with your 7200 Seagates, the earth will not stop rotating. Also, there is no firmware upgrade to change a Green into a Red that I'm aware of. If you know of one, please share. All I'm aware of is WDIDLE which only changed the head parking timer.

Sorry, that is what I meant. Just WDIDLE.


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[LIGISTX]

Only you can decide if it's 'safe', based on your risk tolerance. Whatever your level of redundancy, it doesn't replace the need for backing up any data you care about. The thing I like least about this layout is that you can't add a matching 3rd 9 disk vdev. The thing I like next least is that you're buying a bunch more 3TB disks.

By the way, what model are your 3TB Seagates? Please don't say ST3000DM001.

Whelp. You may not like the screenshots below.

Unfortunately my buddy hasn't checked the array recently and the array is degraded, with two drives showing relocated sectors. This just got even more interesting.

Btw, it's a Z2 array, with 2 drives dropped out. Cross your fingers, I sure am [emoji29].

Thankfully with freenas we will have MUCH better drive visibility, email alerts etc. don't worry, I am NOT doing this new setup incorrectly.

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[joeschmuck]

When you setup FreeNAS, ensure that you setup a script for SMART testing and to report any failures. You can customize the messages so when you get a Failed test result, that it doesn't resemble a Pass email, something that you would get use to deleting all the time. Also with a script you can send the email to multiple people since you are what appears to be more than one person managing the system. BTW, you should be able to do that now with your current system too I would expect.

 

[joeschmuck]

Btw, it's a Z2 array

No it's not, it's a RAID 6. You are confusing terms. While they may do effectively the same thing, they are different formats and not compatible.

 

[danb35]

we will have MUCH better drive visibility, email alerts etc.

Yes, well, assuming the email alerts work. I woke up yesterday morning to three failing drives, two of which had been so for at least three weeks, with no warnings up to this point. But that's another thread.

 

[joeschmuck]

Yes, well, assuming the email alerts work. I woke up yesterday morning to three failing drives, two of which had been so for at least three weeks, with no warnings up to this point. But that's another thread.

A thread getting long. Please post any bug report findings in that thread, maybe folks want to know what is going on.

 

[LIGISTX]

When you setup FreeNAS, ensure that you setup a script for SMART testing and to report any failures. You can customize the messages so when you get a Failed test result, that it doesn't resemble a Pass email, something that you would get use to deleting all the time. Also with a script you can send the email to multiple people since you are what appears to be more than one person managing the system. BTW, you should be able to do that now with your current system too I would expect.

Yes. it is probabaly do able now, but for whatever reason we have been having issues accessing the WebUI from remote locations which has had me unable to take a peak every now and then. So, yes, I fully admit we have been way to set and forget on this NAS. That wasn't suppose to happen, but I have not been the Admin I should have on this.. Trust me, we will not have the same issue on FreeNAS. Thankfully my buddy who is a part of this is a coder and enjoys sitting there writing scrips lol. I am not that guy.... But he will get all of that set up.

No it's not, it's a RAID 6. You are confusing terms. While they may do effectively the same thing, they are different formats and not compatible.

While this is true, I SWEAR back when I set it up, it was listed as Z2. It isn't a hardware RAID, it is a software RAID under XFS. It has been a while, but I thought it was listed in the WebUI as Z2. But like I previously said, clearly been a while since I have been in the UI messing with it all. The NAS used to live at my house, so I used to be more involved. I am the hardware guy tho, so this is my responsibility. I dropped the ball...

Now I just need to figure out what to do going forward.

 

[gpsguy]

Since you said you had a couple of 3TB drives on the shelf, I would use them to replace the bad ones now. Black Friday is still 3.5 months from now.


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[LIGISTX]

Since you said you had a couple of 3TB drives on the shelf, I would use them to replace the bad ones now. Black Friday is still 3.5 months from now.


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Unfortunately, our wood NAS case isn't super easy to work in... not sure my buddy would feel comfortable swapping them out. Once again, GREAT reason to why we purchased the used supermicro setup.

 

[LIGISTX]

Ok, well now I am trying to figure out a go forward plan here.

Hmm. Lots of stuff to consider. All of my assumptions about optimizing what we currently have and future state plans are totally changed.

 

[LIGISTX]

Ok. Well. After a bunch of figuring and talking to my buddies.... Who I have to consider, this is kinda sorta the plan. These 3 TB's should be under warranty. So we will have them replaced I guess.

It may it be exactly how I would do it if it was 100% me, but I will be building my own in the next few years and will start it out different. So. For now, this is our plan. I am turning this build over to my buddy, I am helping him buy a few of these new hard drives, but after that it's his dealio, and he wants to utilize as much of the current hardware we have and not worry as much about future expansion possibilities (would either buy another chassis+ internals, or upgrade vdevs as those will be the only options).

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[SweetAndLow]

No it's not, it's a RAID 6. You are confusing terms. While they may do effectively the same thing, they are different formats and not compatible.

yes i agree stop calling raid6 the same thing as z2. Those two words mean very different things.

 

[Mirfster]

Since you said you had a couple of 3TB drives on the shelf, I would use them to replace the bad ones now. Black Friday is still 3.5 months from now.

Unfortunately, our wood NAS case isn't super easy to work in... not sure my buddy would feel comfortable swapping them out. Once again, GREAT reason to why we purchased the used supermicro setup.

If I understand this correctly, you have a Raid6 Volume with two drives gone... If that is the case, I would say your main focus is to get that corrected. Loss of one more drive would result in loss of Volume even in a Raid6 (not talking RaidZ2 here). Delaying too long may end up with not having any data to worry about migrating...