Having clients on WiFi

[ertank]

Hello,

I am new to FreeNAS. Currently using 11.2-BETA3. No jail, no VM, just windows file sharing on RaidZ2 with LZ4 compression on.

I have to physically put the box in a separate room in my home in order to have cable access to my TP-Link WR840N router. My house is an old one and there is no network cable infrastructure. Clients are laptops. I personally am using heavily my desktop on same WiFi. I am using that system alone during day-time. No multiple users during work hours. My main usage is application development. I am using Delphi for my software development needs and my bottleneck is compiling them as Delphi generating big EXE files. My projects they are around 74MB in single EXE size.

I found a thread with iperf test and I tried to use it with same parameters for testing my cable network speed using my laptop when there is nobody accessing FreeNAS and results are as following:
C:\iperf-2.0.9-win64>iperf.exe -c 192.168.1.2 -p 5001 -f m -w 128k -P 2
------------------------------------------------------------
Client connecting to 192.168.1.2, TCP port 5001
TCP window size: 0.12 MByte
------------------------------------------------------------
[ 4] local 192.168.1.109 port 14728 connected with 192.168.1.2 port 5001
[ 3] local 192.168.1.109 port 14727 connected with 192.168.1.2 port 5001
[ ID] Interval Transfer Bandwidth
[ 4] 0.0-10.0 sec 56.9 MBytes 47.7 Mbits/sec
[ 3] 0.0-10.0 sec 56.9 MBytes 47.6 Mbits/sec
[SUM] 0.0-10.0 sec 114 MBytes 95.3 Mbits/sec

C:\iperf-2.0.9-win64>iperf.exe -c 192.168.1.2 -p 5001 -f m -w 128k -P 1
------------------------------------------------------------
Client connecting to 192.168.1.2, TCP port 5001
TCP window size: 0.12 MByte
------------------------------------------------------------
[ 3] local 192.168.1.109 port 14735 connected with 192.168.1.2 port 5001
[ ID] Interval Transfer Bandwidth
[ 3] 0.0-10.0 sec 113 MBytes 95.1 Mbits/sec


My test on my WiFi is slower but not with a big margin:
C:\iperf-2.0.9-win64>iperf.exe -c 192.168.1.2 -p 5001 -f m -w 128k -P 2
------------------------------------------------------------
Client connecting to 192.168.1.2, TCP port 5001
TCP window size: 0.12 MByte
------------------------------------------------------------
[ 4] local 192.168.1.106 port 61454 connected with 192.168.1.2 port 5001
[ 3] local 192.168.1.106 port 61453 connected with 192.168.1.2 port 5001
[ ID] Interval Transfer Bandwidth
[ 4] 0.0-10.0 sec 52.5 MBytes 44.0 Mbits/sec
[ 3] 0.0-10.0 sec 49.6 MBytes 41.5 Mbits/sec
[SUM] 0.0-10.0 sec 102 MBytes 85.5 Mbits/sec

C:\iperf-2.0.9-win64>iperf.exe -c 192.168.1.2 -p 5001 -f m -w 128k -P 1
------------------------------------------------------------
Client connecting to 192.168.1.2, TCP port 5001
TCP window size: 0.12 MByte
------------------------------------------------------------
[ 3] local 192.168.1.106 port 61462 connected with 192.168.1.2 port 5001
[ ID] Interval Transfer Bandwidth
[ 3] 0.0-10.0 sec 91.1 MBytes 76.3 Mbits/sec


I would like to understand if having a new WiFi Router with Gigabit port and 750Mbit/sec or higher advertised Wifi capabilities will actually increase above speeds.

Unfortunately, it is not an option for me to separate and put each WiFi and FreeNAS on different networks.

Thanks & regards,
Ertan

 

[Elliot Dierksen]

You could try Powerline networking. I used it in a smaller house, and it worked well. It might not work as well in a larger house if the Powerline devices have to go from one side of the breaker panel to the other. They aren't crazy expensive, so it might be worth a try.
https://www.techadvisor.co.uk/feature/network-wifi/what-is-powerline-3491484/

 

[garm]

Wow, I didnt realise 100Base gear was still sold.. Its some seriously old tech, 100Base got replaced by 1000Base 20 years ago. Now, with a single RaidZ2 vdev pool you will be able to write to that pool at around 200 MBps, that is beyond 1 Gbps. A modern consumer router will support 802.11ac and have GbE network. Wifi might not reach the full 1 Gbps, will definetly do better then 70 Mbps

 

[garm]

You could try Powerline networking. I used it in a smaller house, and it worked well. It might not work as well in a larger house if the Powerline devices have to go from one side of the breaker panel to the other. They aren't crazy expensive, so it might be worth a try.
https://www.techadvisor.co.uk/feature/network-wifi/what-is-powerline-3491484/

still wouldnt break the 100Base wall

 

[Elliot Dierksen]

still wouldnt break the 100Base wall

Ooops, I missed that bit. If you speed up the LAN side with a new router but your Wifi signal is weak, then the Powerline stuff might help.

 

[ertank]

You could try Powerline networking. I used it in a smaller house, and it worked well. It might not work as well in a larger house if the Powerline devices have to go from one side of the breaker panel to the other. They aren't crazy expensive, so it might be worth a try.
https://www.techadvisor.co.uk/feature/network-wifi/what-is-powerline-3491484/

Here is a quote from above link:
Let’s be more honest than the manufacturers – and they’re all at it – you won’t get 500Mbps from a 500Mbps Powerline adapter. You’ll be lucky to get 100Mbps for a multitude of reasons, including age of your power cables, distance between adaptors, “electrical noise”, mains fluctuations, interference from other devices such as phone chargers, and circuit breakers.


That's basically what @garm said "still wouldn't break 100Base wall"

 

[garm]

No.. that’s not what I said.. and my name isn “germ”.. germs are microscopic life forms.. Garm is a mythological hound guarding the gates of hell..

 

[ertank]

Wow, I didnt realise 100Base gear was still sold.. Its some seriously old tech, 100Base got replaced by 1000Base 20 years ago. Now, with a single RaidZ2 vdev pool you will be able to write to that pool at around 200 MBps, that is beyond 1 Gbps. A modern consumer router will support 802.11ac and have GbE network. Wifi might not reach the full 1 Gbps, will definetly do better then 70 Mbps

Even I cannot connect to router using a cable, I am not that far away from it. "Bird fly" it is about 5 meters away thru two house walls. I also understand that my speed will *at least* increase if I invest on new router and adapter for my desktop computer.

I did check what's available in my country (and in my unplanned budget) is as follows:
USB adapter for my desktop computer: TP-Link Archer T9UH (AC1900 with beamforming, USB 3.0)
Wireless Router with Gigabit ports: Tenda AC15 (AC1900 with beamforming)

I do hope that these two will let me have a better speed from my very first FreeNAS system. I am still kind of searching. However, it is unlikely that I will find a better deal for myself.

 

[ertank]

No.. that’s not what I said.. and my name isn “germ”.. germs are microscopic life forms.. Garm is a mythological hound guarding the gates of hell..

Fixed the name typo. Sorry for that.

 

[rungekutta]

WiFi access points vary considerably in both reach, speed and stability. It’s worth doing some online research. Check out e.g. SmallNetBuilder.

https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/bas...177-how-to-buy-a-wireless-router-2018-edition

Personally I use Uniquiti Unifi with good results (came from Apple AirPort Extreme).

 

[ertank]

WiFi access points vary considerably in both reach, speed and stability. It’s worth doing some online research. Check out e.g. SmallNetBuilder.

https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/bas...177-how-to-buy-a-wireless-router-2018-edition

Personally I use Uniquiti Unifi with good results (came from Apple AirPort Extreme).

I could find a model available in my country. Problem is, price here is 3.39 times higher which puts me on hold.
On the other hand, I am curious how you have chosen your Unifi as there is no such brand in the list.

 

[rungekutta]

Where I am based the Ubiquiti Unifi access points are relatively competitive on price. SmallNetBuilder are not particularly keen on them but they have received a lot of praise and attention elsewhere. Performance wise I find them slightly stronger than the Apple devices they replace, in terms of functionality (configurability, statistics etc) far superior, in terms of price slightly cheaper. YMMV.

 

[melloa]

My main usage is application development.

Are using a share on your NAS to compile your source? If your main usage is application development, why aren't you doing any compiling work @ your desktop? Space?

My projects they are around 74MB in single EXE size.

74MB isn't that big...

I bet your house is brick, so run cables isn't that easy. The suggestions above re: power Line Adapter is an option, but for app dev, why not just get a fast HDD on your workstation?

 

[ertank]

Are using a share on your NAS to compile your source? If your main usage is application development, why aren't you doing any compiling work @ your desktop? Space?

I want to secure my source codes as much as I can. I did face a problem in the past. I am using additional SVN versioning, but that cannot be compared having code on a FreeNAS system with snapshots running every 5 mins. Otherwise, my workstation has Pro level NVMe drive and everything including OS is running on that drive. Space is not a concern here.

74MB isn't that big...

That is size of EXE file. This should be double until compilation finishes (.DCU, .O, etc. files). Moreover, I have slowdowns (which can be felt easily compared to working on my project on my own workstation) when walking in the code, switching/opening other source files. Likely Delphi is creating temporary files or something. That happen on several KB small files.

I bet your house is brick, so run cables isn't that easy. The suggestions above re: power Line Adapter is an option, but for app dev, why not just get a fast HDD on your workstation?

Yes, house is brick.

 

[rungekutta]

I want to secure my source codes as much as I can. I did face a problem in the past. I am using additional SVN versioning, but that cannot be compared having code on a FreeNAS system with snapshots running every 5 mins. Otherwise, my workstation has Pro level NVMe drive and everything including OS is running on that drive. Space is not a concern here

With respect, but that sounds a bit nuts... SVN commits are quick and you could run them very frequently if you wish. In between, you risk losing your local changes since the last commit if your pro level NVMe suddenly dies. But taking into account the extra time you have to wait for your compiler to finish (because it runs against a network share over WiFI instead of local NVMe) haven’t you lost that time many times over in just one single day?

Also, what do you gain from running ZFS snapshots every 5 minutes? SVN itself already keeps history and versions and allows rollback (as you know of course) - what do you realistically gain by doing this at the filesystem level *as well*, at that frequency?

 

[ertank]

With respect, but that sounds a bit nuts... SVN commits are quick and you could run them very frequently if you wish. In between, you risk losing your local changes since the last commit if your pro level NVMe suddenly dies. But taking into account the extra time you have to wait for your compiler to finish (because it runs against a network share over WiFI instead of local NVMe) haven’t you lost that time many times over in just one single day?

Also, what do you gain from running ZFS snapshots every 5 minutes? SVN itself already keeps history and versions and allows rollback (as you know of course) - what do you realistically gain by doing this at the filesystem level *as well*, at that frequency?

I do not use SVN frequently. I do modifications, publish demo/test and commit only if all accepted by customers (or I am confident that job is OK) and free of issues. Otherwise, doing frequent commits may lead to have to try finding right earlier revision among different SVN versions if I need to revert anything.

I did not move all my projects on my FreeNAS, yet. I want to not to loose time like now and speed up my NAS access, so I am trying to find a solution here. It's not hours of time lost because of slow compilation in a day. Just want to have it at acceptable levels.

5 min snapshots are just in case for other users. I am not only user on that FreeNAS in the end.

 

[rungekutta]

I do not use SVN frequently. I do modifications, publish demo/test and commit only if all accepted by customers (or I am confident that job is OK) and free of issues. Otherwise, doing frequent commits may lead to have to try finding right earlier revision among different SVN versions if I need to revert anything.

I did not move all my projects on my FreeNAS, yet. I want to not to loose time like now and speed up my NAS access, so I am trying to find a solution here. It's not hours of time lost because of slow compilation in a day. Just want to have it at acceptable levels.

5 min snapshots are just in case for other users. I am not only user on that FreeNAS in the end.

Ok sounds like short-term you should focus on your network/wifi problems and with some suggestions further above.

Must say though... that approach to source code management / versioning is a bit unusual, and I'm not going to judge... but sounds pretty risky, despite the sense of security that RAIDZ2 on the file system on the server may bring.. In SVN as you know every commit is a revision and you can of course tag revisions with whatever label you want according to whatever naming standard works for you, and it would seem sensible to at least commit - and if you need it to keep track of the revisions - also tag with labels ahead of demos etc. Isn't there a risk otherwise that you screw something up towards the end and end up unsure of exactly what you actually demo:ed and/or the state of the project when you last ran your full suite of tests?

Seems a bit like you've got the worst of both worlds at the moment - slow browsing and compilation (due to remote file access over WiFi) but little real mitigation of the actual practical risks involved, because of your workflow. I realize this may be crossing the line and if so I apologize - just trying to be helpful!

Wouldn't it be better to

- keep a local SVN checkout as the working copy (on your fast SSD), keep master on the server, navigate the project + make changes + run compiles locally

- commit back to server frequently (when you fix a bug, add a feature, or just regularly)

- tag revisions with suitable names when you hit milestones (cut a demo version for a customer, add a significant feature, leave for the day, ...)

Then you have both speed and robustness against manual errors as well as software/error problems with your PC...?

 

[garm]

I’m not sure how SVN works but it sounds like you have potential for improving your workflow. Yes ZFS is great but if you don’t use an OS supporting it locally you are better of, in my opinion, to work locally with versioning and backup that location to ZFS in the background.

In git, what I do is I have a working branch and a release branch. I have frequent commits to the working branch while working on a project and only commit to a release branch once what ever testing suit used has been completed. Often testing is done in its own branch. Working on a network share over WiFi would be unacceptable in my opinion due to time lost in every transaction. Granted Windows have no nice way of “snapshotting” a love filesystem so what I would do is include some kind of deduplication run in some of the workflow actions. Preferably on commit, so that I cannot change files while the backup is running. To speed things up, I would also backup to a local drive/location first as that should be mush faster then the network backup and then kick off a backup run on that secondary location to the network share.

 

[ertank]

After all these comments and suggestions, I decided to change my way of using FreeNAS. I will be using FreeFileSync to do synchronization in the background while I am working on my local drive. That would be nearly same thing as working on FreeNAS 100% and won't be slowing me down.

@rungekutta, I do not know how to handle a single folder (which contains project files) to work both with SVN local and SVN master. I might misunderstood your comment "keep a local SVN checkout as the working copy (on your fast SSD), keep master on the server"

On the other hand, I am not sure how I should install a SVN server on my FreeNAS as it is not suggested to install additional applications on FreeNAS. I suppose suggested way is to run it in jail?

 

[garm]

You do that in a Jail, this is the first google hit on SVN and FreeBSD http://www.freebsdonline.com/content/view/625/531/