BUILD Hardware selection - 1st FreeNAS build

[DataKeeper]

If you have or can pickup an older or inexpensive PC you can play with it instead of expensive server hardware to start. It really is easy. A table and screwdriver is all that's needed. Taking it apart and then rebuilding is pretty much the same as a larger system like mine. Just the server hardware is a bit more particular with what works best with it.

The software part is easy especially on PC hardware to start with. Also, take an old PC and install FN or if the hardware doesn't work with it give OpenMediaVault a try. It's the Debian Linux based alternative to FreeNAS which is what I had originally and then again later thought I'd use. It's also my preferred OS!

Basically this stuff you can easily play with and learn as you go. If you have any questions feel free to ask me or others on the forum.

 

[fn369]

If you have or can pickup an older or inexpensive PC you can play with it instead of expensive server hardware to start. It really is easy. A table and screwdriver is all that's needed. Taking it apart and then rebuilding is pretty much the same as a larger system like mine. Just the server hardware is a bit more particular with what works best with it.

The software part is easy especially on PC hardware to start with. Also, take an old PC and install FN or if the hardware doesn't work with it give OpenMediaVault a try. It's the Debian Linux based alternative to FreeNAS which is what I had originally and then again later thought I'd use. It's also my preferred OS!

Basically this stuff you can easily play with and learn as you go. If you have any questions feel free to ask me or others on the forum.

Hi @DataKeeper, and thanks for your input. I know that you're probably right in suggesting I buy a PC to play around with, but, if you saw how little space I have in my office at the moment, you'd understand why I'm so fixated on a rack mounted solution!

I very much appreciate your offer to help, and I've been really impressed by the number of extremely knowledgeable people there are in the forum, always willing to help those who are just starting out, and it's for those reasons that I'm thinking very seriously about just jumping in at the deep end.

There is one question I have for you now, please. It's a year since you built your NAS. If you were doing it now, would you choose any different components? I believe this question may help future visitors, but after that I feel I should start my own thread as I'm concerned that I have polluted yours, sorry!

Thanks in advance, Edward

 

[DataKeeper]

Going with a virtual setup is also an option. This is what I initially did and played with FN on my desktop PC for awhile before building the system. For the most part hardware is pretty easy during the build. Start a thread and after doing some research ask any questions you might have.

I haven't looked at hardware since I did my build. At the time I looked at a few options but I can't think of anything I'd change on the build no. It's a solid hardware setup for sure. I did post a bit on the bios issue I had but that type of stuff can be found with any manufacturer.

I see the memory I purchased has dropped significantly on price! That always hurts a bit lol Some other parts. have risen.

 

[fn369]

Thanks for the suggestion. Funnily enough, that was exactly the conclusion I'd come to last night, after reading through the FreeNAS documentation in some more detail, and I awoke to find FreeNAS 9.10 STABLE downloaded this morning!

However, when I try to install it in VirtualBox or Fusion Pro 8, it gets to the point where I have to select the VHD I created "using arrow keys", but the arrow keys only move left and right (OK / Cancel) and don't allow me to select the VHD. I'll have to come back to it when I'm less pressed for time, because I must do some work today!

Quick update on the hardware front. The local Supermicro dealer has been in touch and has offered to give me a quote to replicate your setup and put it all together properly with FreeNAS installed. As long as I would only have to pay the extra cost associated with buying a new chassis vs eBay, this is quite tempting. Thanks again!

 

[DataKeeper]

Ouch! That's an extra $1300 bucks right there as a SUPERMICRO CSE-846E16-R1200B chassis is about $1500US bucks new vs $320 refurbished. If its worth it to you that's fine though. Just noticed you were in Asia also so entirely different options. Is the dealer providing any warranty on the built system?

 

[jgreco]

I see the memory I purchased has dropped significantly on price! That always hurts a bit lol Some other parts. have risen.

Ironically, memory prices have risen slightly in the last half year. Just say "wow." ;-)

 

[fn369]

Ouch! That's an extra $1300 bucks right there as a SUPERMICRO CSE-846E16-R1200B chassis is about $1500US bucks new vs $320 refurbished. If its worth it to you that's fine though. Just noticed you were in Asia also so entirely different options. Is the dealer providing any warranty on the built system?

I do understand your reaction, but I'd seen a new chassis on Amazon for around $1,200, and was considering the extra ~$800 as possibly being worth it to get someone else to do everything so I could focus on my business. However, having pointed him at page 1 of this thread on 3 occasions, and told him that (1) I wanted a quote based on your setup and (2) I would get the disks from Amazon/newegg, he's come back with this:

I suggest this model.

http://www.supermicro.com.tw/products/system/3U/6038/SSG-6038R-E1CR16L.cfm

SSG-6038R-E1CR16L
1 x Boardwell 8C E5-2620 V4 2.1G 20M
2 x 16GB DDR4-2133 ECC REG
16 x 3.5'' 4TB 7.2KRPM
1 x 32GB SATADOM

Price 250,000 Baht

Price exclude VAT 7%

Warranty 3 Years.

THB 250,000 + 7% tax is roughly $7,600, for 8 fewer drives, and that's not going to happen. Impressed by the 3 year warranty though, normally it's 30 days!

Fortunately, I have everything all the various parts already stored in my eBay, newegg and Amazon carts. Just taking a few deep breaths... ;-)

 

[jgreco]

If it's helpful, start with https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/building-burn-in-and-testing-your-freenas-system.17750/

And ask any question. The stupid question is the one you didn't ask and you ended up ruining some expensive thing. Lots of us here are experienced system builders, some of us professionally, so even though you might hear the sound of our eyes rolling, NO ONE wants a bad outcome for someone undertaking a good challenge.

Make sure that you budget a lot of time. Taking things slowly and methodically is a path to success. For example, to do a thorough, neat job that includes proper cable management, labeling, testing, etc., it is not uncommon for a system build to take half a day or even a full day here.

 

[jgreco]

http://www.supermicro.com.tw/products/system/3U/6038/SSG-6038R-E1CR16L.cfm

SSG-6038R-E1CR16L
1 x Boardwell 8C E5-2620 V4 2.1G 20M
2 x 16GB DDR4-2133 ECC REG
16 x 3.5'' 4TB 7.2KRPM
1 x 32GB SATADOM

Okay, and upon further reflection this really ticks me off. That unit they're suggesting is a prebuilt ("SSG"), with a dual-CPU mainboard in there, and they're suggesting to put a crappy slow-cored E5-26xx processor on there. 7200 RPM drives are generally an energy-wasting thing on a ZFS filer unless you *know* you need them.

This is fulla crap. The E5-1650 v3 has been the price/performance king for some time due to its relatively low cost, six cores, and 3.5GHz clock, which allows it to do all the things a NAS might need at an insane speed. The only question would be if you had a really large departmental fileserver, or a lot of heavy processing jails running, in which case you might start to really need E5-2637/43 v3 etc.

I have a suspicion they're not interested in building you something custom. A lot of shops like to just drop in a CPU and memory and disks into a prebuilt unit, and that appears to be what they're suggesting.

 

[DataKeeper]

Right off the bat I see issues with the .... and J just posted... :D

 

[jgreco]

Right off the bat I see issues with the .... and J just posted... :D

Sorry, didn't mean to steal your thunder. @Edward Laing , please feel free to listen to @DataKeeper ... the system described in the first post is very well-thought-out and would be almost exactly my idea of what a rack-mount 24 drive system Xeon E5 ought to look like.

 

[fn369]

If it's helpful, start with https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/building-burn-in-and-testing-your-freenas-system.17750/

And ask any question. The stupid question is the one you didn't ask and you ended up ruining some expensive thing. Lots of us here are experienced system builders, some of us professionally, so even though you might hear the sound of our eyes rolling, NO ONE wants a bad outcome for someone undertaking a good challenge.

Make sure that you budget a lot of time. Taking things slowly and methodically is a path to success. For example, to do a thorough, neat job that includes proper cable management, labeling, testing, etc., it is not uncommon for a system build to take half a day or even a full day here.

Thank you very much for reiterating that offer. I really appreciate it

I have spent countless hours in the forum over the past week and I have seen that there are some incredibly experienced system builders, clearly professional, who are willing to give up their time to help people with eye-rolling-worthy questions (and I am both grateful and relieved, because I'm bound to ask some!) Indeed, it is the only reason I feel comfortable considering DIY rather than getting a FreeNAS Certified Server direct from ixsystems.

I want to use my NAS in exactly the same way as @DataKeeper (see page 1). I had originally been looking at buying a QNAP TVS-1282T, then started looking at the TVS-EC1680U-SAS-RP R2 and ended up wondering if I could stretch to the TDS-16489U.

However, by going the FreeNAS route I can get substantially more for substantially less, thus allowing me to put the savings to better use elsewhere.

And I will be sure to budget plenty of time. 1 day sounds a bit optimistic to me, so I'll aim to give myself a whole weekend with the phones and email off. (Just keep a hotline to this forum open) Thanks again!

 

[fn369]

Okay, and upon further reflection this really ticks me off. That unit they're suggesting is a prebuilt ("SSG"), with a dual-CPU mainboard in there, and they're suggesting to put a crappy slow-cored E5-26xx processor on there. 7200 RPM drives are generally an energy-wasting thing on a ZFS filer unless you *know* you need them.

This is fulla crap. The E5-1650 v3 has been the price/performance king for some time due to its relatively low cost, six cores, and 3.5GHz clock, which allows it to do all the things a NAS might need at an insane speed. The only question would be if you had a really large departmental fileserver, or a lot of heavy processing jails running, in which case you might start to really need E5-2637/43 v3 etc.

I have a suspicion they're not interested in building you something custom. A lot of shops like to just drop in a CPU and memory and disks into a prebuilt unit, and that appears to be what they're suggesting.

I have a feeling you are exactly right! I have politely declined his offer. Thank you again, very much, for your feedback.

 

[DataKeeper]

Sorry, didn't mean to steal your thunder. @Edward Laing , please feel free to listen to @DataKeeper ... the system described in the first post is very well-thought-out and would be almost exactly my idea of what a rack-mount 24 drive system Xeon E5 ought to look like.

No thunder loss at all! You provided a great reply hitting everything. The only thing I'd add would be to ask the dealer if they had any FreeNAS experience. I question that with only using a single satadom where as I, and think most others would agree, 2 would be preferred. I lost one and having a second as a mirrored backup saved me the hassle of reinstalling and restoring the config. Not a huge deal but for the price of a second in a system of this size why not.

Also, glad you like my meager little home setup. :D

@Edward Laing .. At this point I'd suggest starting a new thread for your own build. Feel free to link to my build and/or even copy it to yours as a build you'd like to pursue. Include any questions you have as well as your exact usage and expectations of the system and experience or lack there of. This is a great forum and as long as you do some research yourself I found many people here will practically walk you through many areas. Selecting the proper components to work together AND meet your requirements is most of the battle. This is where this board shines in their helpfulness. As for the assembly it really isn't that hard. Take your time, ask questions, keep it as neat as you can and again.. take your time. I honestly believe anyone can do this if they are willing. That said, there is no harm in paying someone to do build or even maintain a system if its for a business. If that's the case it could even be the smart thing to do. Only you can decide that.

 

[fn369]

No thunder loss at all! You provided a great reply hitting everything. The only thing I'd add would be to ask the dealer if they had any FreeNAS experience. I question that with only using a single satadom where as I, and think most others would agree, 2 would be preferred. I lost one and having a second as a mirrored backup saved me the hassle of reinstalling and restoring the config. Not a huge deal but for the price of a second in a system of this size why not.

Also, glad you like my meager little home setup. :D

@Edward Laing .. At this point I'd suggest starting a new thread for your own build. Feel free to link to my build and/or even copy it to yours as a build you'd like to pursue. Include any questions you have as well as your exact usage and expectations of the system and experience or lack there of. This is a great forum and as long as you do some research yourself I found many people here will practically walk you through many areas. Selecting the proper components to work together AND meet your requirements is most of the battle. This is where this board shines in their helpfulness. As for the assembly it really isn't that hard. Take your time, ask questions, keep it as neat as you can and again.. take your time. I honestly believe anyone can do this if they are willing. That said, there is no harm in paying someone to do build or even maintain a system if its for a business. If that's the case it could even be the smart thing to do. Only you can decide that.

@DataKeeper - I've just been out swimming with my son, and come back to my office with the intention of starting my own thread, so your comment was timed perfectly. I will do that now, and hope I haven't overstayed my welcome here!

In answer to your question, the dealer said they had a lot of experience with FreeNAS, but it appears his recommendations suggested otherwise. In any event, I think that it's going to be more sensible for me to do it myself, slowly and in the knowledge that there are may experienced people here willing to share their expertise.

"Meager little home setup". Haha!

 

[Mirfster]

Just to add to the points already made... By doing it yourself, you will also gain invaluable knowledge that will further your savings if/when the time comes to maintain, troubleshoot or even upgrade your system.

 

[jgreco]

In answer to your question, the dealer said they had a lot of experience with FreeNAS, but it appears his recommendations suggested otherwise.

Well, there's no particular way to tell. The suggested hardware is certainly compatible, it would make a beefy FreeNAS system, and for a hardware vendor it probably seems like a reasonable suggestion. Those of us here, we're more likely to be fairly discriminating in the hardware we pick, because, well, because we can be.

 

[fn369]

Just to add to the points already made... By doing it yourself, you will also gain invaluable knowledge that will further your savings if/when the time comes to maintain, troubleshoot or even upgrade your system.

A good point indeed, thank you!

 

[fn369]

Well, there's no particular way to tell. The suggested hardware is certainly compatible, it would make a beefy FreeNAS system, and for a hardware vendor it probably seems like a reasonable suggestion. Those of us here, we're more likely to be fairly discriminating in the hardware we pick, because, well, because we can be.

You're right. He may well be knowledgeable about FreeNAS, but he's almost certainly more interested in his bottom line!

 

[trumee]

@DataKeeper Your build looks awesome and something I am planning to replicate. I presently have a very quiet 4U Rosewill RSV-L4500 case which i am planning to upgrade with the Supermicro chassis. I have questions on your build:
1. The Supermicro chassis selling on ebay is 846E160-R1200B with backplane BPN-SAS2-846EL1. Is this the same backplane in your build?
2. I will be using 4TB WD Red drives. My understanding is that the backplane has 3 connectors. To get the most out of the 24 drives it will need a bandwidth of 3.5Gbps (assuming 150MBps per drive). Do i need 3 LSI IBM m1015 cards connected to each of this connector or is 1 sufficient? I understand each IBM M1015 has two ports, so only 1 needs to be connected?
3. The chassis will be next to my desk so low noise it quite important to me. Do you know what mid fan wall is being using in this? Also, can the rear 80mm fans be replaced?
4. I guess i need the flat head screws for the HDD. Anything else Supermicro specific i may be missing?
5. I am planning to use mirrored 2.5 inch SSD for boot. Do the HDD trays take 2.5 inch drives?