FreeNAS part for 6 users. I dont know anything to server side. Need help

[Losthenes]

Hi,

Looking for a FreeNAS solution since we bought a house. you'll tell me to go looking into the documentation but that doesn't help me since I don't know anything about server and i dont understand everything in this.

I don't know if you need to know my current gears at home but I'll list it here.

• We're 4 adults and 2 teens only watching movies music and internet tv. We don't have netflix, but we buy tons of bluray.
• We'll play a lot of music wirelessly outside.
  
• It need to be able to handle up to 5-6 movies in 1080P nearly at the same time and mabye 4k in few month for 1-2 people max
  
• My son want a minecraft server running 24/7
• I want my future website running on it as well 24/7
  
• We have 3 gaming computers, 2 laptops, 5 android phones and a tablet.
  
• We have 6 decent tv also.

1. I7 920 with 6gb RAM 2X 32GB SSD and a ATI 6990
2. I7 3770k, 240GB Samsung SSD 16GB RAM and a GTX780Ti
3. AMD phenom 1090T Black edition, 4GB DDR 3, GTX 670 4Gb
4. 2 laptop I7 of this model: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B01DT49XN8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
5. we have 2 Raspberry Pi running kodi and a MXIII also running kodi on 3 different tv.
   
6. The last gear i have is a Steam Link paired with the AMD computer.

I have a netgear R7000 as primary and and asus RT-ac66u as access point with DDRWRT and 3 DIR-615 as access point with also DDWRT.
I have a 8 Port switch Dlink gigabits.
My internet connection is unlimited 120M/20M

That all we have for gear.

Currently, the I7 3770k is the one sharing the movies and music with everyone but that become a problem because i can never close it and it always need to be up for the movies and music.
It also my main pc to work by VPN and it creating a bug eveytime im connected to the job, 1 of the raspberry doesnt detect my 1TB hardrive to read the movies.

Money isn't a problem. We will be 4 adults splitting the receipt to buy the stuff.

We'll buy from amazon.ca since i live in Quebec or newegg.ca / Ncix.com

Can you provide me with some gear that will last a long long time and running 24/7.
When I buy, I buy for a long long time.

Thanks all.

 

[Robert Trevellyan]

Start with this: https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?resources/hardware-recommendations-guide.12/

 

[joeschmuck]

You are asking an awful lot here in this post and I highly doubt that you will get the answer you desire but I'll give you some friendly advice on how I'd tackle your problem.

1) Setup a separate Minecraft server. You have enough PCs to select from so just keep it simple.
2) To run all those video streams at once you need to check into bandwidth limitations, and are you only using WiFi which would kill you I suspect unless you split it over several WiFi APs.
3) As @Robert Trevellyan suggested, check you that link for hardware requirements, but I think you are going to need a pretty good machine to do what you want.
4) You never mentioned what your storage requirements are. That is a big one because using FreeNAS, it's not as easy as adding a single hard drive to expand your storage, it's a bit more complicated than that.
5) You never stated if you will have a streaming player on each TV such as a Roku or maybe those RPIs. Streaming video content isn't a big deal until you need the FreeNAS system to transcode it. You never mentioned Plex so I suspect you are streaming the raw data and having the RPI/Roku device transcode for the TV. If this is true then your FreeNAS server doesn't need to be a high horsepower machine for video content, but if you are looking at transcoding then you will need the horsepower. Also, the format of the media is key as well.

you'll tell me to go looking into the documentation but that doesnt help me since i dont know anything about server and i dont understand everything in this.

I appreciate you stating this. I would recommend that you read the User Guide from cover to cover, even if you don't understand anything your read, at least when you come across a problem you might recall that you read that in the User Guide and that will help you. Also, when you do setup FreeNAS, play around with it before committing it for full use. And do a Google search when you need help before just creating a new posting.

Lastly, you can create a small version of FreeNAS in a Virtual Machine on your PC and play with it if you have enough RAM.

 

[Losthenes]

Every room is cat 5e wired. it connected to a patch panel in my basement and with my dlink switch. 2 rpi will grab the stuff from the network to play the movies in 1080P . it can be play simultanous since 2 person in the house can watch / listen stuff differently. EX: my wife listen a bluray movies and i wanna watch something else at the same time.
Sometime my daughter can start a tv show from his tablet and my son also with his phone but that about it.
Sometime at the job, we have nothing to do and it really boring. We aren't allowed to watch stream directly from internet because of pub, spyware and all that crap that can infect a workstation. At the moment, we use phone with local content on it to listen some movies. It becoming a real pain because everytime we are creating a backup of a bluray, we have to put it on the phone with a micro sd card that we need to clean out nearly every day and sometime we are too lazy to do it.
We run kodi on every equipements, rpi2, laptop, pc, tablet, except phone. For movies on the phone and the tablet, we use mx player.
We are 6 huges users of getting movies / music / sharing picture to kodi. We recently got 2 4k tv, 2 55 inch. We use both laptop with hdmi cable to play them on the tv. Both laptop can be wired for no buffering but this summer, sometime it might be wireless in the garden.
Storage, we currently have like 5TB all combined from every pc and we need way way more.
We bought 2 audio systems, 1 for the garage and 1 for outside and we will start the music from a tablet, laptop or phone by bluetooth with 2 logitech logitech dongle.
I wanna set an owncloud folder for everyone that will take picture with there phone too. I used to do this with my personnal pc back in the time, but my phone died and i never set another one.
Plex? i dont even know what is plex and what it can do. i'll check this out
I will put the FreeNAS in the garage if it too loud. it also cat5e wired. Otherwise i can put it in the basement near the patch panel.

 

[joeschmuck]

Since all of the transcoding is being done by the playing devices and not FreeNAS, that as I said will lighten the hardware CPU requirements. You really do need to figure out how much storage you will need. The way I suggest it to people is to plan on 3 years of use before you need to replace your hard drives, that is the typical warranty period for good hard drives. Now add 50% or double it. If you rip blueray moves to full size then you are going to need a lot of storage but only you can determine how much storage you need. Most of your money will likely be spent on hard drives. Use a RAID calculator (I have 2 in my signature line) and plan on using RAIDZ2. Don't skimp on the FreeNAS computer itself. I would recommend a setup similar to mine with 16GB RAM (1 stick) and then it's expandable up to 64GB should you ever desire it. The CPU could be slightly slower but I'd shop around to see what the price differences are. You would need a nice large case so the system can breathe and that is very important for hard drive life.

 

[Arwen]

Some comments I would make:

• For the non-media items, like web site storage, put in different dataset and highly consider backups for it
• Whence built, don't ignore your NAS, that leads to eventual data loss.
• Read up and understand ZFS, (and FreeNAS), it's very helpful to know both limitations and benefits.

In some ways, FreeNAS is not a mass market home NAS solution. It has some advanced features, (like ZFS). Most
of us here using FreeNAS want the advanced features, perhaps because we had crap before, or been bitten by
something less than ideal. Plus, ZFS gets us Enterprise class management & data protection on the software side.
I'd suggest reading Cyberjock's ZFS slideshow;

https://forums.freenas.org/index.ph...ning-vdev-zpool-zil-and-l2arc-for-noobs.7775/

PS: A dataset is a ZFS term that kinda means different file system. You can give it different attributes and check
it's size independant of the media dataset(s).

 

[Losthenes]

We'll go with around 30-40 tb for now. we all discussed about it and i think it the good amount to start with.
We dont want to lose any data at all. Last summer i've lost a full 3tb of pictures and homemade video of my kids when they were young. By chance, grand mother had all of them into cd / dvd. It a big no no to lose data. If i harddrive die, we want to remplace it without losing any data.
Read up and understand ZFS ( im trying the most i can to understand how it work, i have plenty of time when ill be at job to read this. i will RAIDZ2 like joeschmuck advie me.)
@joeschmuck, i only see four link in your signature, but i dont see that part list you have unless i dont understand how to check it :/

 

[Arwen]

The only serious way to reduce data loss, is backups. In your case, grandmother had a copy, (aka backup).

Yes, RAID-Z2 will protect against 2 simultanouos disk failures, giving you time to replace them without data loss.
And yes, RAID-Z2, (or RAID-Z3), is recommended with today's huge disks. But, RAID-Z2 won't protect against
accidental deletions, ransomware encrypting your files, and buggy programs. That's what backups are for.

There are as many backup schemes as there are people. Here are some schemes that can be used for backups;

1. Burn non-media files to CD, DVD, Blu-ray, media
2. For critial files, maybe use M-Disc type DVD or Blu-ray, (they are supposed to last 1,000 years)
3. Use cheaper, large disks as removable storage
   
4. Second NAS, (possibly cheaper hardware, and less redundancy on disks), that is only used for backups
5. Second NAS, but very similar to your primary, with the ability to take over as primary if the primary fails
6. Cloud based services, (there are dozens of options here)
   
7. Tape drives, (though not directly supported by FreeNAS)

I use the third option regularly, and the first 2 options several times a year.

On ransomware:
Depending on configuration, timing and your knowledge, ZFS Snapshots can help mitigate ransomware by allowing
you to roll back the dataset before it was ransomware encrypted. It's NOT guarenteed, since it's depends alot on you,
how you set up snapshots, (if any), and when you notice the ransomware encryptions.

Further, if you make the media shares R/O, (Read Only), so people can only play the media, then ransomware can't
do anything to it. (Does not help normal data shares.) It can be tricky, since one PC generally has to transfer the media
files to the NAS.

 

[joeschmuck]

In my signature is "Show: ESXi System 1", click on it. You will see the main parts of my system.

30-40TB, that is a good sized system. Since you also do not want to loose data then you will need a RAIDZ2 or possibly a RAIDZ3 setup. I'm well beyond my comfort zone for building a 40TB system. If you go with a motherboard with 8 SATA ports then you could use eight 8TB drives in a RAIDZ3 for ~36TB of storage. If you have a motherboard with 9 or more SATA ports then you could use nine 6TB drives in a RAIDZ3 for ~32TB of usable space. My motherboard only handles 8 SATA ports but I can add-on more with a card, or you could buy a motherboard up front which comes with more ports. Many people here use a RAID card which is then Flashed to IT Mode firmware which just makes it a fast SATA add-on card.

If you use large hard drives such as 6TB or larger then you will desire RAIDZ3. You will also desire at least one open SATA port on your system so you can replace a failing hard drive without removing the actual failing drive until resilvering is done.

You need to really learn what is going on with FreeNAS when building something this large or you will hate your life when you have a drive failure and have no idea how to fix it. Also you must understand how to upgrade the storage capacity, it's not as simple as adding a single drive to expand it, this is why you want to plan your needs out up front.

 

[Arwen]

...
You will also desire at least one open SATA port on your system so you can replace a failing hard drive without removing the actual failing drive until resilvering is done.

You need to really learn what is going on with FreeNAS when building something this large or you will hate your life when you have a drive failure and have no idea how to fix it. Also you must understand how to upgrade the storage capacity, it's not as simple as adding a single drive to expand it, this is why you want to plan your needs out up front.

Agree with @joeschmuck, with very large hard drives, it's better to have a free SATA / SAS port and disk slot for the drive replacement. Basically
ZFS allows using the failing disk as a source for all the good data needed to put the replacement into service. Any bad blocks get recovered from
RAID-Z2, (or RAID-Z3), parity. This produces less strain on the RAID-Zx virtual device and puts the strain on the failing device, (which is going
away anyway). Of course, if the bad drive failed completely, then you can just remove it and use it's disk slot.

One side benefit of the free disk slot, is that you can use it for disk backups. Meaning you install a high capacity disk into that slot, run a backup
then remove it for safe keeping. (Perhaps off-site.)

Further, after you build the server, only put copies of the data or media on it for the first few weeks. Then practice disk replacements, (though you
probably can't test with a new disk). Perform other tests as approprite. People here recommend long memory tests, as well as long SMART tests on
the disks, and potetially CPU load tests.

 

[Losthenes]

1 XSUPERMICRO MBD-X11SSM-F-O Micro ATX Server Motherboard LGA 1151 Intel C236

1 XIntel Xeon E3-1245 v5 SkyLake 3.5 GHz LGA 1151 80W BX80662E31245V5 Server Processor

2 XSAMSUNG 16GB 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM ECC Registered DDR4 2133 (PC4 17000) Server Memory Model M393A2G40DB0-CPB

1 X SAMSUNG 850 PRO 2.5" 256GB SATA III 3-D Vertical Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) MZ-7KE256BW

1 XCooler Master HAF 912 - Mid Tower Computer Case with High Airflow, Supporting up to Six 120mm Fans and USB 3.0

1 XAPC BR1000G Back-UPS Pro 1000VA 8-outlet Uninterruptible Power Supply (UPS)

2 XIOCrest SI-PEX40064 PCI-Express 2.0 Low Profile Ready SATA III (6.0 Gb/s) Controller Card

6 XWD Red 4TB NAS Hard Disk Drive - 5400 RPM Class SATA 6Gb/s 64MB Cache 3.5 Inch - WD40EFRX


Can i order this processor instead, it like 30 buck more than the other one.

I didn't found a 64GB samsung DDR4 stick, so to start 2 X 16GB should be ok?

Do I need a power supply with all of this?

 

[Arwen]

With that server motherboard, you don't need the graphics of a Xeon E3-1245. Save a few bucks, and get the
Xeon E3-1240. Same speed and specs, just no built in graphics.

The memory is not appropriate, (if it trully is Registered DRAM). You would be looking for un-buffered per
the server motherboard specifications;

• Up to 64GB Unbuffered ECC UDIMM DDR4 2133MHz; 4 DIMM slots

The Samsung 850 Pro SSD, while a very nice drive, is not really needed for the boot device. A FreeNAS boot
device can't really be shared with other things. A simple 32GB SATA DOM, (Supermicro's brand, while not
cheap, has good reviews). Here is a like to what I mean, (I own both a 32GB and a 64GB);

https://www.amazon.com/Supermicro-S...1488146110&sr=8-2&keywords=Supermicro+SATADOM

It does appear that the Canadian pricing for that SATA DOM is way too high. So perhaps a pair of USB drives
for the boot device.

If you need more SATA ports, Intel type or LSI SAS are preferred. That card you listed uses a Marvell SATA chip,
which is less than ideal.

Yes, you can start with 2 x 16GB DIMMs. In some ways that is prefered. If you trully don't need the RAM, then
you can use the money for something else, just as important. Like backup media.

I did not look up your case to see if it comes with a power supply.

 

[wblock]

Please prefer an SSD over a SATA DOM unless physical size is an issue. The Samsung drive will work, but two 120G versions in a mirror would be preferable. Or cheaper brands of SSDs.

I agree with Arwen on the controller cards.

 

[CraigD]

2 XIOCrest SI-PEX40064 PCI-Express 2.0 Low Profile Ready SATA III (6.0 Gb/s) Controller Card

I can confirm this controller does work, I use it only because I already owned it when building my system (have plans for 18 SATA ports)

Marvell cards are not on the recommended list

If you can a M1015 SAS controller flashed to IT mode is recommend, a single card that supports 8 drives, you may save a little power too

Have Fun

 

[joeschmuck]

2 XIOCrest SI-PEX40064 PCI-Express 2.0 Low Profile Ready SATA III (6.0 Gb/s) Controller Card

I can see that you are building a system just like mine however you really have needs for a faster card here like a RAID card flashed to IT mode.


EDIT: If you are only looking to run FreeNAS on this hardware then you can use the motherboard SATA ports, there are 8 of them. No need for an add-on card. My situation is different, I am running ESXi and then FreeNAS on top of it, that isn't what you desire, is it? Or I wouldn't recommend it myself for your situation.

 

[joeschmuck]

6 XWD Red 4TB NAS Hard Disk Drive - 5400 RPM Class SATA 6Gb/s 64MB Cache 3.5 Inch - WD40EFRX

This will give you about 14TB of storage under RAIDZ2. Remember, adding more storage is not as simple as dropping in another drive or two, it means rebuilding your entire pool and thus all your data is gone. I would recommend you start with 8 hard drives which would give you about 21TB as RAIDZ2.

 

[Wayland Sothcott]

We'll go with around 30-40 tb for now. we all discussed about it and i think it the good amount to start with.
We dont want to lose any data at all. Last summer i've lost a full 3tb of pictures and homemade video of my kids when they were young. By chance, grand mother had all of them into cd / dvd. It a big no no to lose data. If i harddrive die, we want to remplace it without losing any data.
Read up and understand ZFS ( im trying the most i can to understand how it work, i have plenty of time when ill be at job to read this. i will RAIDZ2 like joeschmuck advie me.)
@joeschmuck, i only see four link in your signature, but i dont see that part list you have unless i dont understand how to check it :/

I'm thinking that large businesses have less data requirements than this. Perhaps you should buy an ex-corporate server and NAS array. I've bought these and stuck Linux on them. Interestingly a server machine with apparently the same CPU power as a desktop will actually massively outperform the desktop for file transfers. The use of multicore CPUs with extra large caches and pipelining and whatever seems to make a huge difference.

You can buy some pretty impressive old servers for bargain prices. Three problems, you may need to buy bigger drives, they make a lot of noise so location is important (garage?) and they use a lot of electricity. I expect they are compatible with FreeNAS but probably should switch off hardware RAID (switch to JBOD mode).

 

[Arwen]

...
Perhaps you should buy an ex-corporate server and NAS array. I've bought these and stuck Linux on them. Interestingly a server machine with apparently the same CPU power as a desktop will actually massively outperform the desktop for file transfers. The use of multicore CPUs with extra large caches and pipelining and whatever seems to make a huge difference.
...

Many purpose built computers for server functions use I/O that is higher performance than desktop hardware.
For example, SATA or SAS ports that are not limited in speed due to reduced PCIe lanes. Or the cost reduced
Ethernet chips sets desktops use, (I am looking at you RealTek!).

So even if the CPU is exactly the same between a server board and desktop board, the I/O may be noticably
different.