First build - AMD

[drscruggs]

Hi all,

New to FreeNAS, but I decided to build my own using AMD parts to cut down on costs, but it really started because I got a motherboard and a case from a buddy for a steal.

I would like to mainly use this as a Plex server, media storage, and backup for my aging computers.

CPU - AMD FX-8350 Black Edition Vishera 8-Core 4.0 GHz
Cooling - Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO
MB - ASUS M5A97 R2.0
RAM - G.SKILL Ripjaws 16GB DDR3 1600
PSU - EVGA SuperNOVA 650 G3
Case - Cooler Master Elite 430
Boot - Intel 320 Series 160GB
Storage - WD Red 4TB NAS Hard Disk Drive

With any luck that's all correct. I've powered it on, but I need a graphics card to get me through the setup process

 

[Chris Moore]

Storage - WD Red 4TB NAS Hard Disk Drive

You should have two drives at a minimum so you can have some redundancy.

I've powered it on, but I need a graphics card to get me through the setup process

Almost any old video card will do. It will only ever display text, so you don't need any kind of fancy, high powered, card.

 

[Chris Moore]

Look here:
http://www.freenas.org/hardware-requirements/

 

[Inxsible]

None of your links will open for me -- probably because of my ad-blockers. But I don't think Ripjaws is ECC RAM? All the components look more prosumer/gamer than server boards/RAM.

You might want to think about getting server grade hardware.

 

[joeinaz]

Have you purchased anything other than the motherboard and case? The motherboard you have does not support ECC memory. While ECC memory is not a requirement, it is highly recommended to maintain reliable disk operation. If you intend to use your motherboard, the FX-8350 is a very large CPU for just a storage appliance. If it were me, I would look at a smaller CPU and spend on additional disk for redundancy. Either 2x 4TB or 4x 2TB.

 

[gpsguy]

Get an Intel Pro/1000 CT NIC. About $30 USD. The onboard Realtek NIC is crappy.

 

[Jeff Armstrong]

I would like to reiterate Mr. Moore's link above:
http://www.freenas.org/hardware-requirements/

Like you, I am relatively new to Freenas, but what attracted me to the platform was two items -- Enterprise grade software and the data protective emphasis of the ZFS file system.

Having said that, I have spent a good portion of time reading/researching here is what I would suggest from delving into the topic:

- Server grade hardware is really a good way to go. Unless you are simply re-purposing old hardware.

- It does not make sense to use a NAS platform, especially one that has a steep learning curve (even for intermediate computer geeks), if you do not take advantage of the redundancy capabilities it offers. Minimum 2 HDs, 3 HDs with raidz1 if you want redundancy but want space (though raidz1 is arguable not sufficient, raidz2 is obviously better). If this isn't for you, then consider something easier and more user friendly (open media vault, unraid - though unraid is not free it is easier for novices, just not as safe with the data as Freenas).

- If you decided to forgo your AMD MB, you can get a decent server MB (can be had for 150-200 bucks) you most likely will not need a video card as the BMC will provide basic graphics for (text based) initial setup, and IPMI is nifty if you want to go headless but still dink with BIOS and CLI outside of a web interface. Also, unless you need to do a lot of on the fly transcoding, you can get by with a decent Xeon CPU for not much more than what the 8350 will costs -- the CPU does not need to be monster fast for a NAS/basic medial server.

- ECC memory is a good idea in my opinion, there is a some debate on this various circles I have read, but I would rather be safe than sorry.

- I think you have a good choice in PSU, I stick with Seasonic or Corsair HX series (rebranded Seasonic). I, myself, also invested in a UPS and have configured my NAS to gracefully shut down in a power outage.

 

[Inxsible]

Unless you are simply re-purposing old hardware.

He/She is. The OP (@drscruggs) mentioned they got the board and case from their buddy at a steal. So at this point it's a question of whether the @drscruggs wants to

• Risk his/her data by running FreeNAS on gamer hardware
  
• Use the gamer board for something else and buy server hardware

 

[Jeff Armstrong]

He/She is. The OP (@drscruggs) mentioned they got the board and case from their buddy at a steal. So at this point it's a question of whether the @drscruggs wants to

• Risk his/her data by running FreeNAS on gamer hardware
  
• Use the gamer board for something else and buy server hardware

Yep ...

- If you decided to forgo your AMD MB, you can ...

I did in fact catch that point ... I guess I am strongly suggesting the server grade path because of this...

 

[Napalm]

So just how often does this data loss occur? I keep reading this in other threads specifically when AMD hardware is mentioned. Is the FreeNAS OS so critically optimized for intel hardware that it creates errors - or are you guys running so much data demand and throughput it's more a question of probability. I mean I get enterprise servers - even those a decade old - carry much more capacity of ram and the software does more intensive drive checking and write verification.

I've even read is a few places where ECC can be counterproductive.

So I'm curious other than having multiple users and a office environment or maintaining your own webserver. If you are only doing media storage for say 3-4 clients that aren't even active at the same time, all the time. Is it really that unsafe?

I say that knowing my box I plan on using right now has run various implementations of linux with no issues driver related - and no not all of them were Ubuntu.

My search fu must be weak but have there been successful FreeNAS builds on AMD hardware - was it older FreeNAS versions - did they just fall apart?

 

[Chris Moore]

it's more a question of probability.

There are some real incompatibilities but mostly it is like driving a car without a seat-belt. Some of the time, you would be fine, but there is always that possibility of a crash.

I've even read is a few places where ECC can be counterproductive.

It might be slower, but counterproductive is more than an overstatement.

I say that knowing my box I plan on using right now has run various implementations of linux with no issues driver related - and no not all of them were Ubuntu.

FreeNAS is not Linux, it is BSD Unix based but it is designed to be an appliance and it has certain reliability expectations on the hardware. It is your data, so you get to decide how important it is to you.

My search fu must be weak but have there been successful FreeNAS builds on AMD hardware - was it older FreeNAS versions - did they just fall apart?

There have been problems, but there have also been builds that ran for years. It is more of a game of chance with AMD and that is what you have to consider. Do you want to take a chance with your data?

 

[Inxsible]

So just how often does this data loss occur?

There's no scientific study done as far as I know, but I surely wouldn't like to be in the wrong side of statistics.

I keep reading this in other threads specifically when AMD hardware is mentioned.

I am not so sure about that. I think it's more to do with supporting ECC RAM.

Is the FreeNAS OS so critically optimized for intel

Many users have run FreeNAS on AMD hardware. Some have even run it on the latest Ryzen chips. However, there was a thread where someone posted a link where AMD said "ECC might work but we don't fully support it" or something to that effect. I cannot seem to find that link right now, but if I do, I will post back. It's that kind of uncertainty from the manufacturer itself that causes a few to doubt AMD builds

 

[Jeff Armstrong]

Is the FreeNAS OS so critically optimized for intel hardware ....

The consensus seems to be, from poking around the web, is that Intel is simply better supported in FreeBSD (which FreeNAS is built on) compared to AMD.

http://www.freenas.org/blog/a-complete-guide-to-freenas-hardware-design-part-ii-hardware-specifics/

It probably has less to do with the CPU and more to do with the platform overall.

 

[pro lamer]

(...) AMD said "ECC might work but we don't fully support it" or something to that effect. I cannot seem to find that link right now, but if I do, I will post back. It's that kind of uncertainty from the manufacturer itself that causes a few to doubt AMD builds

It refers to AMD Ryzen/Ryzen motherboards so I would expect ECC to be supported by AMD Opteron etc

 

[Chris Moore]

I would expect ECC to be supported by AMD Opteron etc

Opteron CPUs were made to be server CPUs. Sure they should do ECC, but they are old tech that burns a lot of power and makes a lot of heat.
Why are you fixated on AMD?

 

[diskdiddler]

I run an AMD system without issue, as do many others, however you are safer with Intel or the very very least confirming here or online that someone else is running the proposed AMD hardware you'd like first.


That whole linux halt bug isn't ideal, I don't know if it impacts FreeNAS but I wouldn't consider AMD until it's cleared up.

 

[Stux]

or are you guys running so much data demand and throughput it's more a question of probability

Pretty much.

We use ZFS, ECC and server grade hardware to reduce the probability of data loss/corruption.

And then we have backups.

I'm actually more concerned about the corruption part.

The trick with corruption is knowing when you have it so you can resolve it, and not propogating it to your backups.

That's what ZFS gains you. Combined with ECC and periodic scrubs, it reduces the probability of data corruption to near zero.

BUT, I would say that modern HDs count as "so much data", a little old 4TB HD has 32 trillion bits on it. And if say each bit has a 1 in a billion chance of rotting over 3 years, you just ended up with 32,000 rotten bits... right? maybe, I'm not a statistician :)

Now, you add a second drive as a mirror, and a system which can reliably detect the rot... what's the chance of the same bit on both drives rotting? A billion billion? At the same time between scrubs?

Much less likely than the chance of one of the drives spontaneously dying...

And then ECC... what's the chance of a memory failure causing data corruption... actually fairly high... relatively.

IANAS

BUT I use ZFS.

 

[garm]

Pretty much.

We use ZFS, ECC and server grade hardware to reduce the probability of data loss/corruption.

And then we have backups.

I'm actually more concerned about the corruption part.

The trick with corruption is knowing when you have it so you can resolve it, and not propogating it to your backups.

That's what ZFS gains you. Combined with ECC and periodic scrubs, it reduces the probability of data corruption to near zero.

BUT, I would say that modern HDs count as "so much data", a little old 4TB HD has 32 trillion bits on it. And if say each bit has a 1 in a billion chance of rotting over 3 years, you just ended up with 32,000 rotten bits... right? maybe, I'm not a statistician :)

Now, you add a second drive as a mirror, and a system which can reliably detect the rot... what's the chance of the same bit on both drives rotting? A billion billion? At the same time between scrubs?

Much less likely than the chance of one of the drives spontaneously dying...

And then ECC... what's the chance of a memory failure causing data corruption... actually fairly high... relatively.

IANAS

BUT I use ZFS.

This should be the forum splash screen
Hear hear!

 

[Napalm]

For someone like me - as a hobbyist getting into this - I'm not putting my life's work on this machine. I'm using it to run a media server. I will put some personal items on it - as part of a 321 backup system - but it won't be my primary backup.

To that end - I don't know what the rest of you guys use your machines for - but for me my first build is as much a test article as it is a learning stage for a new OS and system. I have another NAS box that is an off the shelf device - but it doesn't have the throughput nor the OS to support a proper media service like EMBY or even PLEX. (I can run plex but is woefully underpowered)

SO I get the feeling our perspectives are quite a bit different both in use case and desired outcome. I am expecting to rebuild- rework the system in 3-5 years. By then I also suspect I'll need much more space.

 

[Chris Moore]

SO I get the feeling our perspectives are quite a bit different both in use case and desired outcome. I am expecting to rebuild- rework the system in 3-5 years.

Why would you want to deal with a substandard junker system for 3-5 years when you could build a good system to begin with?