Dual-Booting A Server/Workstation/Gaming-Rig Safely

[Arman]

When anyone talks about dual booting, I have to ask, why not just run a windows machine and share your files out that way? No dual booting required. You never interrupt your NAS storage and you can use it as a desktop/workstation.

You are trying to mash 2 things together that do not belong together in the same box.

You gain NOTHING by setting up a dual boot system. Freenas gains you NOTHING but headaches in a setup like this.

What do you mean? Like run a seperate windows machine on another set of hardware?

My perspective is different to yours. The way I think about it is: I have a beast of a computer. Xeon processor, up to 64Gb of ram, all the storage ill ever need, a motherboard which could take a powerful graphics card. And all that is holding me back is a software? It's like saying everyone is a household needs their own car. But do they, really? If one person got behind the wheel in turns then everyone will be happy unless one person needs to be behind the wheel 24/7... (Which is not the case for my server)

Setting up a dual-boot system SAFELY has many benefits! I get to save a ton of money, i get to keep all my data, i get to use the system as a powerful workstation which lowers video rendering times significantly, i get to play games games (high settings) on it occasionally... All i need to do is seperate the HDDs which belong to the opposite OS's safely and everything will go smoothly.

 

[pirateghost]

What do you mean? Like run a seperate windows machine on another set of hardware?

My perspective is different to yours. The way I think about it is: I have a beast of a computer. Xeon processor, up to 64Gb of ram, all the storage ill ever need, a motherboard which could take a powerful graphics card. And all that is holding me back is a software? It's like saying everyone is a household needs their own car. But do they, really? If one person got behind the wheel in turns then everyone will be happy unless one person needs to be behind the wheel 24/7... (Which is not the case for my server)

Setting up a dual-boot system SAFELY has many benefits! I get to save a ton of money, i get to keep all my data, i get to use the system as a powerful workstation which lowers video rendering times significantly, i get to play games games (high settings) on it occasionally... All i need to do is seperate the HDDs which belong to the opposite OS's safely and everything will go smoothly.

No. I'm saying JUST run a windows machine on that rig. Period. You don't need Freenas based on what you have posted. You need a windows machine with some drives shared from it.

 

[Arman]

No. I'm saying JUST run a windows machine on that rig. Period. You don't need Freenas based on what you have posted. You need a windows machine with some drives shared from it.

Nonono ^____^ you misunderstood. I need freenas because i want to put my backups in a ZFS filesystem. I need many terabytes of backup storage. I do not plan to share the freenas drives with windows at all! That would be catastrophic because it would corrupt the freenas drives! Instead if i ever wanted to share something from the freenas drive to the windows ssd i would first take the file out that i want via the shared folders on my mac from the freenas drives, put them on a portable SSD and plug it back into the machine (but this time aith windows booted with the freenas drives physically disconnected by turning off sata from bios. Or i could just send them over to the windows machine via ethernet.

 

[pirateghost]

And yet you still don't understand.

I wasn't talking about sharing drives with freenas. I was suggesting you forget about freenas and just use windows and a hardware raid.

You don't need Freenas. Your particular use case is one where I say, YOU DON'T NEED FREENAS

 

[Arman]

And yet you still don't understand.

I wasn't talking about sharing drives with freenas. I was suggesting you forget about freenas and just use windows and a hardware raid.

You don't need Freenas. Your particular use case is one where I say, YOU DON'T NEED FREENAS

Are you telling me to run the ZFS file system on windows?

 

[pirateghost]

ZFS doesn't run on windows.

What I'm telling you is that for your application/configuration, ZFS and subsequently, freenas are not an appropriate setup....

I don't know how much clearer I can be, but I should just leave you to make this mistake and learn the hard way. Your data is at risk if you attempt this. Good luck

 

[mattbbpl]

Just a note: In spite of occasional frustrations and friction, I hope visitors realize how valuable it is to be able to come to a knowledgeable community like this and be told, "This product does not meet your use case. Use this or this instead."

That's the kind of advice you are unlikely to get almost anywhere else, whether due to product attachment or commercial obligations.

 

[Arman]

ZFS doesn't run on windows.

What I'm telling you is that for your application/configuration, ZFS and subsequently, freenas are not an appropriate setup....

I don't know how much clearer I can be, but I should just leave you to make this mistake and learn the hard way. Your data is at risk if you attempt this. Good luck

Why are you getting upset? We're just having a discussion, we can clear the misunderstandings if we talk about it. Look, the reason I thought to set up a freeNAS in the first place was because I am interested in taking huge amounts of backups. And specifically, backups based on the ZFS file system. I thought to myself, "Hey, you're setting up a beast of a system here... why don't you also use it for other things occasionally if you can do it safely?" And now here I am with my idea, discussing how it could be done safely. Therefor, freenas is the appropriate setup for my backups even if I were not planning to do other things on the system other than just taking backups. Do you understand? Nothing will get solved if you get mad or upset...

 

[pirateghost]

Why are you getting upset? We're just having a discussion, we can clear the misunderstandings if we talk about it. Look, the reason I thought to set up a freeNAS in the first place was because I am interested in taking huge amounts of backups. And specifically, backups based on the ZFS file system. I thought to myself, "Hey, you're setting up a beast of a system here... why don't you also use it for other things occasionally if you can do it safely?" And now here I am with my idea, discussing how it could be done safely. Therefor, freenas is the appropriate setup for my backups even if I were not planning to do other things on the system other than just taking backups. Do you understand? Nothing will get solved if you get mad or upset...

Good luck. I hope you keep actual backups.

 

[Arman]

Good luck. I hope you keep actual backups.

But did you understand my point? Or are you still mad at me?

 

[pirateghost]

But did you understand my point? Or are you still mad at me?

I understand your point. I have all along.

It truly doesn't matter. Freenas is not an appropriate fit for this setup.

You WILL cause irreparable damage to your data at some point if you go through with this.

We have had several people like you come through here over the years saying the same thing.....you aren't the first to think of this and we have seen it fail before.

Again. I hope you have backups elsewhere.

 

[Arman]

I understand your point. I have all along.

It truly doesn't matter. Freenas is not an appropriate fit for this setup.

You WILL cause irreparable damage to your data at some point if you go through with this.

We have had several people like you come through here over the years saying the same thing.....you aren't the first to think of this and we have seen it fail before.

Again. I hope you have backups elsewhere.

Okay, so can we discuss each way the irreparable damages could be done to the NAS HDD's other than the ones that have been discussed already? Can you explain to me how an irreparable could be done to the NAS HDD's even when the windows OS cannot even physically access the drives? (By turning off the sata controller in BIOS so the NAS harddrives are physically offline and installing windows on a M.2 PCI-e based SSD)

 

[pirateghost]

Lol.

I'm out of this. You've been warned that it's a bad idea. You've been warned that you shouldn't do it. You've been warned that your data is at risk. You are attempting to justify the entire thing, and I will not partake any longer.

Eventually, you will break something and all I can say is, make sure you have backups.

Again. Good luck in your endeavors. I wish you the best.

 

[Arman]

Lol.

I'm out of this. You've been warned that it's a bad idea. You've been warned that you shouldn't do it. You've been warned that your data is at risk. You are attempting to justify the entire thing, and I will not partake any longer.

Eventually, you will break something and all I can say is, make sure you have backups.

Again. Good luck in your endeavors. I wish you the best.

Let's say im not even planning to do this! Let's say i'm just asking that question only for educational purposes! Why are you getting mad? I'm just trying to learn something here...

 

[anodos]

Let's say im not even planning to do this! Let's say i'm just asking that question only for educational purposes! Why are you getting mad? I'm just trying to learn something here...

Eventually you'll forget to disable your drives from the bios (or that bios option doesn't work as advertised). Then you're at the mercy of Windows not to trash your data. When you dual-boot there's often a temptation to tweak things (install new operating systems and test things out). Every time you do something outside of FreeNAS you're running the risk that you'll click on the wrong button, forget something, etc. and lose data. My experience is that most cases of data loss are due to operator error.

Hence, from a reliability standpoint, if you want to play games on your server you're best off just getting a hardware raid card with a BBU, creating a RAID6 data volume, and sharing that out from Windows. That way you're minimizing risk of screw-ups by monkeying around with different OSes and BIOS settings.

Honestly, I don't see why you think the server hardware is so well suited for gaming. Maybe I've been out of the gaming scene too long, but I don't recall games getting any benefit from having more than 8-16GB RAM. Additionally, many high-end server motherboards actually lack PCIe x16 slots, which are needed for your fancy-pants graphics cards. Exhibit A: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182927

 

[Arman]

Eventually you'll forget to disable your drives from the bios (or that bios option doesn't work as advertised). Then you're at the mercy of Windows not to trash your data. When you dual-boot there's often a temptation to tweak things (install new operating systems and test things out). Every time you do something outside of FreeNAS you're running the risk that you'll click on the wrong button, forget something, etc. and lose data. My experience is that most cases of data loss are due to operator error.

Hence, from a reliability standpoint, if you want to play games on your server you're best off just getting a hardware raid card with a BBU, creating a RAID6 data volume, and sharing that out from Windows. That way you're minimizing risk of screw-ups by monkeying around with different OSes and BIOS settings.

Honestly, I don't see why you think the server hardware is so well suited for gaming. Maybe I've been out of the gaming scene too long, but I don't recall games getting any benefit from having more than 8-16GB RAM. Additionally, many high-end server motherboards actually lack PCIe x16 slots, which are needed for your fancy-pants graphics cards. Exhibit A: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182927

I understand, human error is always a problem. Heck, one could accidentally enter the wrong command and ruin something. As long as I know it isin't anything the computer can do on it's own i'm ready to take the beating if it's an error caused by me. Anyone setting up a server should be wary of what they are doing with their server anyway, safety protocols should always be followed for anything sensitive. Procedures shouldn't be taken unless they are analysed well beforehand. This doesn't just apply to a person who wants to dual-boot a server. It applies to all sensitive systems. Unless it's the fault of the computer (E.g. " that bios option doesn't work as advertised") I have nothing but myself to blame. Again, this doesn't just apply to people who want to do the thing im doing, because safety protocols must always be followed for all sensitive systems. If I were to put my idea into action I would heavily test the server to make sure how it behaves before I put any sensitive information on it.

And please, don't think i'm going to play games on my server often... It was just an idea. I'm not a hardcore gamer. However, the other thing that would be very useful to me is being able to significantly reduce rendering times for video editing due to the Xeon processor and the option of putting powerful graphics cards in there. The X11SSH-F has a 16x PCI-e port. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...X1078&cm_re=X11SSH-_-9SIA5EM3MX1078-_-Product

 

[anodos]

... Again, this doesn't just apply to people who want to do the thing im doing, because safety protocols must always be followed for all sensitive systems.

Safety protocols like 'not jury-rigging your server to dual boot windows so that you can game and edit some videos'? :D

So far you've had jkh, cyberjock, pirateghost, mirfster, gpsguy, and me say it's a bad idea. On the other side of the ring, you have Linus TechTips: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSrnXgAmK8k
You could always go cheaper with the NAS (pentium processor vs. xeon, or a Dell T20 with some RAM added), and put the rest of your money into a graphics workstation / gaming rig.

 

[Mirfster]

Pretty sure this thread has run its course... Guessing an admin may soon lock/close it; so pretty much it can all be summed up to:

1. Is it possible to have a dual-boot Server/Workstation/Gaming-Rig Safely?
   • Possible, Yes. Safely, Not Really; but that is entirely at the discretion of the Admin/System Owner
2. Is this recommended/endorsed by the FreeNas Community?
   • Judging by the comments, it looks like a definitive "Heck No, No Way, No How" :D
3. Would this be supported by the FreeNas Community?
   • See response to #2

In the end, it is your money, data, system and design. If you want to disregard all the warnings/comments and move forward that is all your choice. Understandably you looking at the money involved and trying figure out the way to get the most "bang for your buck". While everyone here does their best to assist others by advising them, you will be hard pressed to find many that would even consider going down your chosen path. Again, not that it is technically unfeasible; but due to the fact that it is not technically advisable.

If there is one thing that can be easily noticed throughout this forum is that the main goal is trying to prevent data loss above all else. Anything that may hinder or conflict with that will be met with some level of contention. As others have stated, just be sure you have good backups. :)

 

[jkh]

But would windows still be able to write to those drives even if they are encrypted?

Absolutely. Encryption does nothing to prevent destruction of data (in fact @DrKK would likely argue it makes it more easy), it just prevents (for some value of "prevents") off-line access to it.

And with a anti-virus installed would a virus be likely to perform such administrative tasks on a drive that has a file system which isn't even recognised by windows?

First, please understand that anti-virus software doesn't 100% prevent you from "catching a virus" or prevent one from running once caught, no more than a dose of Tamiflu can prevent you from getting Ebola or even all possible Flu virii. It's just a database of known virus signatures that Windows can warn you about or block from executing, but the second a new (or substantially mutated) one appears and you catch it, you're done.

Second, all of your experiments in off-lining disks and otherwise using the Windows disk management tools are exercises in going through "known, well-guarded paths" to your hardware, which is not the same as the path that a virus or even an outright bug is going to take. Those will bypass all of the helpful and friendly "Are you sure you really want to do this?" prompts and go straight to the hardware, which is why you would want to investigate the options that Windows device drivers and "raw" access allow vs simply using the management tools - those prove nothing.

All this said, we clearly can't talk you out of doing this or really understand your principle motivation, so party on Wayne! We're all just assuming that you have some really valuable data on this FreeNAS box you're trying to create, but if it's just a collection of... err... flesh-toned photographs... that you can easily reconstitute by downloading it all again, then we would classify that under the heading of "fungible data" and encourage you to do whatever the heck you want because who cares? In 100 years we'll all be dead anyway...

 

[Arman]

Safety protocols like 'not jury-rigging your server to dual boot windows so that you can game and edit some videos'? :D

So far you've had jkh, cyberjock, pirateghost, mirfster, gpsguy, and me say it's a bad idea. On the other side of the ring, you have Linus TechTips: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSrnXgAmK8k
You could always go cheaper with the NAS (pentium processor vs. xeon, or a Dell T20 with some RAM added), and put the rest of your money into a graphics workstation / gaming rig.

Yes I've had many people say it's a bad idea, but people always seem to want to stay in their comfort zone... If no one ever takes a step forward nothing new would come along. I choose to go with logic rather than with feelings and traditions. If we figure out all the possible ways the windows OS or the form of the setup itself could corrupt the NAS drives we would find solutions to those problems and take a step forward.