Dual-Booting A Server/Workstation/Gaming-Rig Safely

[Arman]

Yes, disconnecting the sata cables would yield the same results. Just may be more of a pain since you have to take the case cover off, etc.


You mean HBA or card in IT/JBOD Mode, not Raid card right? ;) Yes, if the drives cannot be accessed, then that helps to mitigate the possibilities.

However, you still have at least two potential issues:

1. If the motherboard, cpu, ram or some component decides to halt the system you now neither have access to FreeNas or Windows
2. If you are constantly connecting/disconnecting cables; there is always the chance you may forget one or not seat it properly. Dependent on how your FreeNas pool/vdev is configured, this can be anywhere from an annoying message about a drive missing to total loss of data...

What is HBA? ^_^ I was talking about a Raid controller. A raid card which would help the system run in Raidz2 or raidz3...

But if one of the components chooses to halt the system because it is faulty I could just replace that component, right? I mean, they have a possibility of halting the system even if I am not running a dual-boot server. right?

Yes I agree. constantly connecting and disconnecting cables does increase the possibility of human error. But I don’t think I would be doing it constantly.

 

[gpsguy]

HBA = host bus adapter

ZFS on FreeNAS wants to be able to have direct access to the hard disks. If you use a hardware RAID card to create a an array, FreeNAS won't be able to manage the disks. This can lead to problems, up to and including loss of data. At the end of the day, don't even think about using a hardware RAID controller.

What is HBA? ^_^ I was talking about a Raid controller.

 

[Arman]

HBA = host bus adapter

ZFS on FreeNAS wants to be able to have direct access to the hard disks. If you use a hardware RAID card to create a an array, FreeNAS won't be able to manage the disks. This can lead to problems, up to and including loss of data. At the end of the day, don't even think about using a hardware RAID controller.

(Hopefully this thread wont go off topic) But I done some research and I read that for raidz2 and raidz3 you need a dedicated raid control to do all the parity calculations... So if a dedicated raid processor isn't used then what processes the massive parity calculations?

 

[Mirfster]

Was just thinking this over a little bit more and thought about a possible solution. If you were to use both a HBA and a RAID Controller in the same system? What I am suggesting is not the "norm"; but bear with me for a moment...

Hypothetically, say you have a FreeNas supported HBA (LSI, etc) and you connect all of the FreeNas drives to that controller. Now, you also have a Hardware RAID Controller (Perc H700 or similar...?) which is NOT supported by FreeNas to which you attach the Windows drive(s). Now within Windows you go into Device Manager and disable the HBA, then Windows will not be able to see/access the drives you have specified for FreeNas. As well, if the Hardware RAID card does not have a FreeNas/FreeBSD supported driver, then I would presume that FreeNas will never see/access the drives you have specified for Windows.

So, if your motherboard has the option that allows you to choose the boot environment (like F11 on Dell Servers), then you could leverage that to decide what OS you wanted to boot into.

Keep in mind this is just me hypothisizing (sp?) and has not been tested.... Anyone think that may be a viable option or see issues with that?

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Edit: Changed "Now, you also have a unsupported FreeNas RAID Controller (Perc H700 or similar...? )" to "Now, you also have a Hardware RAID Controller (Perc H700 or similar...?) which is NOT supported by FreeNas"

 

[Mirfster]

(Hopefully this thread wont go off topic) But I done some research and I read that for raidz2 and raidz3 you need a dedicated raid control to do all the parity calculations... So if a dedicated raid processor isn't used then what processes the massive parity calculations?

ZFS, since it is a "software" based raid (raidz). Hardware RAID Controllers are a "no no" for FreeNas... If you want to, you could cite where you got that information (hopefully not from these forums or FreeNas/IXSystems)

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[gpsguy]

No, ZFS uses software RAID. For my example, I'll use standard SATA drives. With them, your standard AHCI controller should work fine. If you don't have enough SATA connections, we recommend something like the IBM M1015 controller, flashed to IT mode.

But I done some research and I read that for raidz2 and raidz3 you need a dedicated raid control to do all the parity calculations

 

[Arman]

@Mirfster
I am not familiar with HBA at all. The idea kind of confuses me. I need to go do my research first t0 understand your possible solution. If anybody is willing to give me a detailed explanation on your solution i'd be grateful.

Oh, it's solely software based? How does it manage to do all the parity calculations? Raid6 is equivalent to Raidz2, right? Or have I completely misunderstood something? I got the information from Linus's video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P8ZecG9iOI

 

[Arman]

No, ZFS uses software RAID. For my example, I'll use standard SATA drives. With them, your standard AHCI controller should work fine. If you don't have enough SATA connections, we recommend something like the IBM M1015 controller, flashed to IT mode.

Isin't the IBM M1015 a raid card? I thought I wasn't meant to use a raid card for ZFS? I'm kind of confused, sorry ^__^ What do you mean by "flashed to IT" mode? Sorry for the nobiness :P

 

[Arman]

I don't know why my message is waiting for moderator approval... But anyway, here it is unless you don't see it on time. @Mirfster

 

[Mirfster]

Isin't the IBM M1015 a raid card? I thought I wasn't meant to use a raid card for ZFS? I'm kind of confused, sorry ^__^ What do you mean by "flashed to IT" mode? Sorry for the nobiness :P

Yes the IBM M1015 is a raid card. However, to use it with FreeNas you will have to cross-flash it to function as a HBA (IT Mode). Feel free to search the forums and you will see tons of info on that.

Regarding the other posting... Don't count on anything you hear from Linus Tech regarding this type of system. If you search in the forums as well you will see all the mistakes he makes and there are even several of his own videos showing where he lost his data or had major issues.

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[Arman]

Yes the IBM M1015 is a raid card. However, to use it with FreeNas you will have to cross-flash it to function as a HBA (IT Mode). Feel free to search the forums and you will see tons of info on that.

Regarding the other posting... Don't count on anything you hear from Linus Tech regarding this type of system. If you search in the forums as well you will see all the mistakes he makes and there are even several of his own videos showing where he lost his data or had major issues.

Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk

I'll take an in-depth look at that tomorrow.

YeaI seen his video where is server becomes corrupt... He got his data back somehow. >_<

By the way... I might have thought of a more simple solution to yours. What if.... I disable the sata ports from bios every time I want to boot windows?! :DD The new 1511 socket motherboards have an M.2 slot where I could plug in a M.2 SSD which has an PCI-e interface? For example I go to boot into windows, I go to bios at the start, disable the sata ports, restart the system and boot from the M.2 SSD! windows will be fully isolated from freeNAS... There will be no need for other complicated things! Right? ^__^ I hope im not talking trash. Waiting for good news tomorrow :P Goodnight! (10 past 4 in the morning....) xD

 

[DrKK]

It would be sort of like buying a "racing minivan" and taking it to the track as well as the grocery store.

I like this idea. Kickstarter, Jordan?

 

[anodos]

I like this idea. Kickstarter, Jordan?

I've seen such things at the local drag strip (racing variety, not cyberjock's mom variety). Chrysler used to make a minivan with a turbocharged 4-cylinder engine.

 

[Arman]

So does anybody know if you can disable sata ports/satacontroller on the X10-X11 supermicro's visa BIOS?

 

[cyberjock]

So does anybody know if you can disable sata ports/satacontroller on the X10-X11 supermicro's visa BIOS?

Most of the time you can, but whether that 'disabling' in the BIOS will actually apply to Windows and such is anyone's guess.

The reasons you aren't wanting the Supermicro over the AsRock Rack are not as it seems. Each CPU and chipset only allows so many PCIe lanes. So when you find that one manufacturer has extra lanes you can make a big guess as to why.

Enter PCIe bridges.

Bridges are great. They give you the impression that you have more hardware than you actually have. They often come with performance limitations. They usually come with reliability and compatibility issues. They often are power hungry relative to other components. They almost always suck.

Here's the PDF for that motherboard: http://66.226.78.22/downloadsite/Manual/E3C236D4U.pdf

Notice the PCIe bridge on page 23 of 88.

So you aren't getting what you think you are getting. It may or may not cause problems. It may or may not even work for you.

In any case, I don't think that AsRock Rack motherboard is something I'd recommend. Additionally, I wouldn't recommend dual booting because of all of the reasons already discussed and more.

Not to sound harsh (you did PM me asking for my opinion) but I feel like the Supermicro is the better choice and the dual booting is a very ill conceived idea.

 

[pirateghost]

Oh please. Please never use Linus 'Tech Tips' videos as any source of information for anything valuable.

 

[Arman]

Most of the time you can, but whether that 'disabling' in the BIOS will actually apply to Windows and such is anyone's guess.

The reasons you aren't wanting the Supermicro over the AsRock Rack are not as it seems. Each CPU and chipset only allows so many PCIe lanes. So when you find that one manufacturer has extra lanes you can make a big guess as to why.

Enter PCIe bridges.

Bridges are great. They give you the impression that you have more hardware than you actually have. They often come with performance limitations. They usually come with reliability and compatibility issues. They often are power hungry relative to other components. They almost always suck.

Here's the PDF for that motherboard: http://66.226.78.22/downloadsite/Manual/E3C236D4U.pdf

Notice the PCIe bridge on page 23 of 88.

So you aren't getting what you think you are getting. It may or may not cause problems. It may or may not even work for you.

In any case, I don't think that AsRock Rack motherboard is something I'd recommend. Additionally, I wouldn't recommend dual booting because of all of the reasons already discussed and more.

Not to sound harsh (you did PM me asking for my opinion) but I feel like the Supermicro is the better choice and the dual booting is a very ill conceived idea.

I appreciate all fair/valid opinions even if they sound harsh. I prefer to have the truth rather than sugar-coated stuff...

Sorry, im kind of confused. Disabling SATA in the BIOS would just turn them off despite whatever operating is running, right? Or have I misunderstood something?

Alright. Since the Supermicro is well known i'll go with that. I was searching online yesterday and it seems I came to the conclusion that graphics cards in a (16x Mechanical, 8x electrical) slot only has a minor performance drop compared to it being is a true 16x slot. Is that correct? If so, I don't even need to think about the AsRock anymore...

And for the dual-boot issue: You say: "I wouldn't recommend dual booting because of all of the reasons already discussed and more.", but for the reasons already discussed we kind of found valid ways to isolate the server freenas HDD's from the Windows SSD... Physically isolating the windows M.2 (PCI-e) SSD from the freenas HDD (SATA) by disabling sata controller was one of them. Or does that not make sense? Excuse the noobiness, but even if I don't actually put this idea into action I still want to fully understand why it cannot be done safely.

 

[pirateghost]

It doesn't make sense to dual boot at all. Freenas is a server. It is meant to be on 24/7.

 

[Arman]

It doesn't make sense to dual boot at all. Freenas is a server. It is meant to be on 24/7.

I understand what you mean. Yes servers are usually kept online unless they have to go down for maintenance. But you also have to understand that this is not a server running a website or a server that is required to be online 24/7. Ill be using this server for personal stuff. If the server is shutdown safely everything will be alright if it goes offline often.

 

[pirateghost]

When anyone talks about dual booting, I have to ask, why not just run a windows machine and share your files out that way? No dual booting required. You never interrupt your NAS storage and you can use it as a desktop/workstation.

You are trying to mash 2 things together that do not belong together in the same box.

You gain NOTHING by setting up a dual boot system. Freenas gains you NOTHING but headaches in a setup like this.