Currently have a Supermicro X10SL7-F - is it a waste to get another for my backup box?

[RichTJ99]

Hi,

So I have a X10SL7-F / Xeon E3-1231V3 / 32GB Crucial ECC Unbuffered DDR3 SeaSonic 650 PSU, 8x 6TB (WD RED) with a Node 804 box - great case.

I have a N40L as a backup box right now & have been agonizing over getting another backup box.

Is ZFS in a raidz1 or raidz2 CPU intensive? My thought is either to:

Option 1:
1. Put 4x 6tb drives in a raidz1 in the N40L & be done (gives me 1 freenas backup box but it is limited)
2. Get another X10SL7-F with another Node 804 case & put 12x 2tb drives in it in Raidz2

Option 2:
1. Get Node 304 with X10SL7-F & a G3220 CPU, put the 4x 6tb drives in Raidz1 (better cooling than N40L)
2. Retire the N40L all together

Option 3:
1. Leave 6x 2tb drives in N40L (current state)
2. Get Node 304 with X10SL7-F & a G3220 CPU, put the 4x 6tb drives in Raidz1 (better cooling than N40L)

Option 4:
1. Leave 6x 2tb drives in N40L (current state)
2. Get something better than my current "main box" in sig.

My thought is that I want 1 box as the main machine & I think 2 backups is good. If I am going full freenas & getting rid of all local storage beyond the boot drives, I want redundancy.

Any thoughts or opinions? I would like it to be compatible with Freenas 10 (whenever it comes out).

My main box is primarily a file dump, backup, afp backup, esxi storage. No real VM's running on it though (not often). I keep thinking how much money I would be willing to spend to recover any lost data & if it costs me another $1000 or so to make another backup box then so be it.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[adrianwi]

I have a X10SL7 and Xeon as my main FreeNAS box running various jails that works brilliantly, and I also have a N54L as a backup which again works perfectly as its simply a backup file server. The only reason I can see for upgrading the HP box is for more capacity, as it's limited for space. I have 9 drives in my main box and only 5 in the backup, although with no parity and not replicating everything its fine for the minute.

When I need to upgrade I suspect I'll move the current system into a backup role and buy a new main server, but don't think I'm going to need to do that anytime soon.

 

[Dice]

hey Rich

My thought is that I want 1 box as the main machine & I think 2 backups is good.

Granted this, you are logically forcing yourself out of option 2 and 4 (if 4 does not imply recycling your current rig to storage purposes).

I keep thinking how much money I would be willing to spend to recover any lost data & if it costs me another $1000 or so to make another backup box then so be it.

So it seems like you are in one way or another "easiest off" by perserving the N40L for some use case.

If it'd be me, I'd put my oldest and most worn out drives on ZFS raidz2, to have maximize their lifespan as active trustable drives. Contrary to the 'rergular cycling of hardware' where oldest drives could easily end up in the last resort backup, trying to save their lifes by being turned on&off in iffy states in a 'once in a while turned on backup solution'.
Contrary to the hardware geek in me, I would myself consider the option to put new drives in the 'last resort backup' rather than in the main rig. In your situation, investing in fresh drives to the N40L, while migrating the older one's to your main rig running ZFS. If needed, possibly adding drives of same size in required numbers (+ spares to be prepared for the older iffy drives from the N40L)

Option 5: 'Preparing for a bigger main rig'
- Getting a bigger "main case" replacing your 804
- add a HBA to your main rig
- add whatever number of new drives you're comfortable spending money on.
- use the N40L as 2nd line backup
- <get another offsite backup online, such as dropbox unlimited or crashplan>

It kind of comes down to how much green you are ready to throw at this.

Cheers, o/

 

[ChriZ]

If you decide to get another X10SL7, keep in mind that it won't fit inside the node 304.
Just my 2c...

 

[RichTJ99]

So what is a safe platform which has good freenas support? What I like about the x10sl7 is it has really good support from the community. That was what made me pick the board in the first place.

If I want to go with a Xeon v5 platform what's a good board recommendation? I would likely want to start with 32 gigs of RAM but having the ability to expand beyond that at some future point would be interesting.

 

[Dice]

http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon3000/#1151


http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon3000/#2011
Pick your poison...

 

[RichTJ99]

Do both of these boards have usb booting support in 9.10? I was reading that the X11 boards didnt support it (in January 2016).

 

[RichTJ99]

My current X11 wish list:

X11SSH-CTF - $400 roughly - 10gb ethernet (though I have no 10gb switches)
Ram - 16gb (KVR21E15D8/16) - $90 per 16gb (not sure if this is correct - seems to cheap) - Start with 32gb = $180
CPU - E3-1245 V5 - $300
PSU - $100
Case - $120 (Node 804)
Total: $1,100 (already have 6tb drives ready)

X10 alternative

X10SL7-F- $220
Xeon E3-1231V3 - $250
32GB Crucial ECC Unbuffered DDR3 - $200
PSU - $100
Case - $120 (Node 804)
Total: $890 (already have 6tb drives ready)

X11 to X10 price difference - $210.00

It would seem that for $200 its smarter to go with the X11 - for future proofing?

 

[Ericloewe]

It would seem that for $200 its smarter to go with the X11 - for future proofing?

Only if you feel you'll need more than 32GB of RAM, but only up to 64GB; and you'd end up with 10GbE anyway.

 

[RichTJ99]

So here is where I am today. I am having a hard time keeping in mind that this new box could just be the third redundant box for data backup only.

All boxes will use the 4x 6TB in Raidz1 (could get upgraded to 5 drives at some point for raidz2 - or not)

System 1: $900
X10SL7-F, 32GB ram, E3-1231v3 -

System 2: $376 (after rebate & taxes)
Dell T20 E3-1225 v3 with 16gb ram

System 3: $427
HP Proliant E3-1220 v3 with 16gb ram

I am leaning towards the Dell T20 because I am feeling cheap about buying a higher end freenas box when my current main one isnt doing anything with jails or anything at this point. The X11 system at this point seems like a waste to me but I would love the IPMI (which the dell has something like it but scaled down).

Any thoughts before i pull the trigger? Talk me off the ledge please.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[hugovsky]

How much does your data worth?...

 

[RichTJ99]

My data is very precious to me. That's why I am interested in setting up a third freenas box dedicated only to backups. My current second backup only box is not a great performer that's the HP microserver

My struggle is whether this Dell T20 computer will be able to handle of being a freenas backup on the box it's the right price. However if I found out that the ECC Ram didn't work properly I be very upset that I put my faith in that system

 

[Dice]

I cannot grasp if you are intersted in building a new "main rig" or if you are interested in building the cheapest possible "last resort backup". If that is what you are aiming for (your options are really not coherent?), in my opinion would best be configured to have a low class cpu (~g4400), limited ram (16 or 32gb) and then most importantly - a HBA/motherboard that supports a good load of drives (for future upgrades of this last resort machine in terms of added capacity but not necessarily added 'power'). Beyond that, I'd aim for a case which supports a lot of drives.

 

[RichTJ99]

I cannot grasp if you are interested in building a new "main rig" or if you are interested in building the cheapest possible "last resort backup".

Lol! I feel the same way (my apologies)! I am all over the place with my ideas.

The main change for me is i now have a dedicated ESXi box (Dell T110 ii with Xeon & 32gb of ram), so using the freenas as a multi purpose appliance running VM's jails, etc isnt something I see that I need in the near future.

My server usage:

Box 1: Main Freenas box (in usage now)
Box 2: N40L Freenas backup #1
Box 3: Dell T110ii - ESXi box
Box 4: TBD - Freenas backup #2

So based on my current freenas usage (main box with no jails, no vm's, just a file server) My current thoughts are to build an inexpensive third backup freenas box, leave my main box as is. I already have 4x 6TB WD Red drives which I did the badblock test & are ready to roll.

It comes down to dollars - Provide the Dell T20 is really a reliable box for a 4 drive system - at $376 it is tough to beat. At that price I would feel OK if it only made it a few years.

If its not Freenas 10 compatible (who knows) then I see not going that route.

One day I feel - let me buy the best money can buy, the next I feel - this is a backup only box - why spend the $$ on a higher end box when I dont need it.

Though going from the $376 T20 (Xeon) to the $297 T20 (Pentium processor) to me is worth the extra $80 to go from Pentium to Xeon.

I like to ramble - ask my wife.

 

[Dice]

Though going from the $376 T20 (Xeon) to the $297 T20 (Pentium processor) to me is worth the extra $80 to go from Pentium to Xeon.

For a <main system> -yes.
When you already have that Xeon capacity boxes in house? -no.
Strip, formulate, prioritize, condensate needs.
Build accordingly.

There is absolutely no point in having numerous simliar hardware specced units, with different use cases, when the only remaining argument is "it is probably worth it".
$80 is probably a 3TB drive (or cash saved for a bigger drive) that could be sitting as a spare. That would be far better spent money in your case, imo.

 

[ChriZ]

Proliant micro server G8, AFAIK, has the "full" IPMI package, like the supermicro mobo.
It also has easier accessible disks compared to the T20.
Also has a bit smaller footprint.
Dell, in the other hand, has a bit more capable CPU, which you probably don't care about.
So, if HP's pros are worth for you the extra $50, we have a winner between the two...

 

[RichTJ99]

So i have flip flopped again. now in my amazon cart are a X11SSM-F-O b, Xeon 1245 v5 & 32gb of ram and a node 804 case. Not sure if i need all that. I am half thinking of swapping the CPU for either a G4400 or I3 6100 & upgrading the CPU in the future (if needed).

I have serious issues - very confusing indeed. Any thoughts or advice?

 

[Dice]

Any thoughts or advice?

Straight out a plan where you don't look at components, but put down a bullet point list of functionality of each of your freenas boxes. When you can segment them somewhat to different levels, you've a starting point to get some priorities for hardware down.

 

[AVB]

Have you considered used server parts? You can get a dual E5-2600 V2 board with 64GB of ram with processors for under $500 delivered. Add a Rosewill 15 drive case (not hot swap but hey - it's your 2nd back up) for $120, whatever power supply you want and a $50 HBA and be up and running for under $750. Jjust a thought.

 

[RichTJ99]

Straight out a plan where you don't look at components, but put down a bullet point list of functionality of each of your freenas boxes. When you can segment them somewhat to different levels, you've a starting point to get some priorities for hardware down.

I feel like a dope each time I post in this thread, its like watching a tennis match against myself.

I have the following:

T110 ii with Xeon - running Esxi
X10Sl7 with xeon - Current main freenas box
N40L - Backup box (only partial backup - critical data only, not entire box)

New Box - Main purpose today: Full backup

Full backup of freenas X10SL7 - current main purpose but it is also an opportunity to future proof a down the line upgrade. Latest Skylake board now with a scaled down processor leaves it to be a new ESXi box someday (or never),

I am trying to give myself flexiblity to have an upgrade in 2-3 years while owning the same hardware. If I get a X11 board with a cheaper processor, i could get more ram & better processor to re purpose the existing hardware.

However - today my main goal is a solid, reliable backup box for the existing freenas data.