Build with (new)older parts?

[kirkdickinson]

I have a FreeNAS server that I built 5 years ago. (thread) It has been running very well for 5 years. It is still running 9.10. The current server has 6 4TB WD Reds in ZFS2.

I store 100's of thousands of high resolution photographs, videos, all the documents, spreadsheets, file-based database, for a small company with 6 computers. I also push daily email and user data backups to the server every night. With a lot of snapshots enabled, I keep running over the 80% safe storage space.

This thing has been running fairly troublefree for 5 years and is probably the most reliable piece of computer equipment on the place. But these drives are running at capacity and after 5 years of use, I don't trust these drives like I used to.

I am contemplating 3 options....

1. In place upgrade. One option I see is to replace one 4TB drive at a time with a 8TB and increase the size of my pool.
2. Rebuild. I have a 10TB and an 8TB drive on another computer here that I could copy all my server files to, update to the newest FreeNAS with new 8TBs.
3. Replace. I have a FreeNAS wishlist on Newegg.com that I pop in and update every now and then. I am thinking about pulling the trigger and building a new server. These parts in my list are not "new" but does that matter? https://secure.newegg.com/wishlist/pd/20397949

Should I be looking at newer CPU or Mobo?

Thanks.
Kirk

 

[Chris Moore]

1. In place upgrade. One option I see is to replace one 4TB drive at a time with a 8TB and increase the size of my pool.

I did that to go from 2TB drives to 4TB drives. It is a good option. You can also extend your pool by adding a second vdev, another six drives, but that might mean moving all the hardware into a larger case with more drive bays, depending on what you have.

These parts in my list are not "new" but does that matter?

FreeNAS, the latest version has been renamed, "TrueNAS Core," does not need latest hardware. I built my current system with parts sourced from eBay and it has been running great for more than a year. I bought cheaper desktop drives instead of NAS dives and I have had to replace one because it got a couple bad sectors, but no other trouble.

That looks like a fine system, but you might want to double check that RAM choice. You have a system board that wants DDR4 memory but the memory you picked is DDR3. More memory is always nice to have, but you can upgrade later. ZFS uses the RAM for read / write cache and having extra makes the system more responsive. The systems I built for work have 256GB, but I didn't go quite that big at home.

Also, the CPU is an LGA 1151 while the system board is a LGA2011, which means the CPU won't fit in the socket. So there will be some compatibility issues there also. Add to that the CPU doesn't include a CPU fan, so you will want to pick one of those.

I went back and looked, the original build should still be fine with just replacing the drives. Still plenty of CPU and RAM capacity there.

 

[kirkdickinson]

Also, the CPU is an LGA 1151 while the system board is a LGA2011, which means the CPU won't fit in the socket. So there will be some compatibility issues there also. Add to that the CPU doesn't include a CPU fan, so you will want to pick one of those.

I went back and looked, the original build should still be fine with just replacing the drives. Still plenty of CPU and RAM capacity there.

That was an old parts list that I keep updating. At some point, I must have upgraded some of it to newer parts and not the rest. How is the list now?

Public Wish List: FreeNAS File Server | Newegg.com

Newegg is proud to offer United States the best prices, fast shipping and top-rated customer service for Computer Parts, Laptops, Electronics and more!

secure.newegg.com

I changed the Mobo to a 1151 and picked different ram.

 

[Jailer]

If your current hardware is working fine why not save some money and upgrade the drives. After 5 years in service and given your use case as a critical backup destination those drives are probably due to be replaced anyway just to be on the safe side. If you run out of space again your current motherboard has room for an additional 6 drive vdev to expand you pool as @Chris Moore mentioned.

 

[HoneyBadger]

I'd skip option 2, as it offers a potential single-point-of-failure when all of that data is offloaded (unless you just offline/detach the 6x4TB pool and keep it safely stored for a bit)

Replacing drives one-by-one could work, and you do have the extra SATA ports necessary to even run burn-in tests via badblocks on them without compromising the existing pool. You can also swap the drives without putting any data at risk, or losing your 2-drive redundancy.

But while the idea of simply adding the new drives in is tempting, I'd like to offer an argument in favor of option #3.

If you build a net-new machine, you can then assemble, test, and burn-in all of the new equipment drives while your present system keeps all of the old data safe.

Once you're confident that your new system is up to par, migrate the data over. Ensure that it's safe, stable, and holds up under production use.

Then, take Old Reliable and use it as a secondary/offsite replication target for the most critical of the datasets. (Or take it home and let it live out its days as your home server.)

 

[Chris Moore]

How is the list now?

I don't see anything that is wrong with that list, but you might be able to save fairly significantly with used gear from eBay. Since I built my first NAS back around 2011 or 2012, I have bought all my hardware used if I possibly could. Even my drives were used. I have had very good service from used hardware and often it costs half, or less, what new hardware costs.

This might not be the best example:

2U 12 Bay SAS3 12Gbps Server X9DRI-LN4F+ 2x Xeon E5-2690 V1 8 Core 64GB RAM Rail | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 2U 12 Bay SAS3 12Gbps Server X9DRI-LN4F+ 2x Xeon E5-2690 V1 8 Core 64GB RAM Rail at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

The point being, you can get a very capable system for not a lot of money and have something that will still last a long time. The server is not what usually fails, in my experience. We have one at work that is eight years old and we have only ever needed to replace 2 of the 12 drives in it and had no other faults.

 

[kirkdickinson]

OK, thanks all. I have to think about this. I might do option 3, then option 2 on the old machine with my data secure on the new machine.

 

[kirkdickinson]

I don't see anything that is wrong with that list, but you might be able to save fairly significantly with used gear from eBay. Since I built my first NAS back around 2011 or 2012, I have bought all my hardware used if I possibly could. Even my drives were used. I have had very good service from used hardware and often it costs half, or less, what new hardware costs.

This might not be the best example:

2U 12 Bay SAS3 12Gbps Server X9DRI-LN4F+ 2x Xeon E5-2690 V1 8 Core 64GB RAM Rail | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 2U 12 Bay SAS3 12Gbps Server X9DRI-LN4F+ 2x Xeon E5-2690 V1 8 Core 64GB RAM Rail at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

The point being, you can get a very capable system for not a lot of money and have something that will still last a long time. The server is not what usually fails, in my experience. We have one at work that is eight years old and we have only ever needed to replace 2 of the 12 drives in it and had no other faults.

I have not pursued server stuff because I don't understand all the ins and outs. I have built quite a few consumer or business desktops and a couple media servers, but the full on server stuff is a mystery to me. With the link you provided, am I reading that right, would all I need to add is drives and install the OS and be up to go? Will SATA drives work with the SAS backplane or do I need to get SAS drives? Or convert? Thanks

 

[Chris Moore]

Will SATA drives work with the SAS backplane or do I need to get SAS drives? Or convert? Thanks

SATA drives work perfectly on a SAS expander backplane. That is what I have in my home server and all the big servers at work also.

am I reading that right, would all I need to add is drives and install the OS and be up to go?

Yes, storage drives, and it looks like you would need to include the boot drive in that list of drives, but it should be no more difficult than the DOM you had already selected from NewEgg.
This server isn't much different from the one you built last time, just a few things have been integrated for you and it has redundant power supplies.

 

[Newfoundland.Republic]

The only issue I have with the X9 line is the BMC. Right now it only works with Firefox (not a real show stopper) but needs a Java client. Iced Tea works under Linux - but for how long?

 

[Redcoat]

X9 line is the BMC. Right now it only works with Firefo

Chrome (with Java) works with my X9SCM-F's "just fine".

 

[jgreco]

The only issue I have with the X9 line is the BMC. Right now it only works with Firefox (not a real show stopper) but needs a Java client. Iced Tea works under Linux - but for how long?

You can also use the Supermicro IPMIview20 app for low-drama IPMI access not only to X9, but also to the older stuff which already refuses to work with any modern browser stack.

 

[jgreco]

I have not pursued server stuff because I don't understand all the ins and outs. I have built quite a few consumer or business desktops and a couple media servers, but the full on server stuff is a mystery to me. With the link you provided, am I reading that right, would all I need to add is drives and install the OS and be up to go? Will SATA drives work with the SAS backplane or do I need to get SAS drives? Or convert? Thanks

There are many differences between servers and PC's, but a lot of it simply goes to design mindset and there's also similarities. Stuff like IPMI or SAS connectivity are befuddling to newcomers, but this is not a good reason to be afraid.

The "Don't be afraid to be SAS-sy" primer was written with exactly you in mind, and is intended to answer all the SAS questions you have.

The big mistake people make with data center gear: It's LOUD. Be aware of that. It is a really bad idea to go into this thinking that experience building PC's or gaming rigs translates well to building servers. There is a LOT of overlap, but the big thing the gamers do is try to silence their NAS. If you end up with a 4-drive-wide chassis of some sort, be aware that the design deliberately uses high static pressure fans to pull air through the teeny ~~1mm gaps around the drives and that this is necessarily a high-energy process that generates noise.

You can fill the top and bottom rows (8 drives) in a 12-drive chassis and leave the middle empty for airflow, and then that's pretty OK to try to jam in "quiet" fans (though cheap gamer crap like the Noctuas will still fail more quickly).

You can put 12 drives into a 24 bay system, alternating rows, or even better filling every other slot in a checkerboard pattern, and that will also be fine to try to "quiet".

But please do not try to cram 12 drives into a 12 bay system and then put in "quiet" fans. You are likely to cook your drives. The standard industrial grade case fans are engineered to make that "12 drive" situation work and will keep your drives comfortable.

Basically everyone who follows this advice buys servers and never look back. The stuff is cheap if you buy carefully. I recently scored a pair of 2U X9DRI-LN4F+ systems with the A backplane for $499 each. While this comes with a crappy Adaptec RAID controller, it's like two Xeon E5-2650v2's, 128GB RAM, and a mainboard that has a SCU on it (this handles 4 of the 12 bays when hooked up) and all that would need to be done is to pull out the Adaptec RAID and cram in a Dell H310 HBA crossflashed to IT mode, along with three new SAS cables, and done, awesome highly expandable FreeNAS host.

You do not need the latest hardware. A lot of the stuff that flushes out of first-run data center leases gets picked up by those of us who are looking at the long tail lifespan of the gear. I do this professionally but I gleefully share my secrets with anyone who is happy to listen.

 

[Newfoundland.Republic]

Chrome (with Java) works with my X9SCM-F's "just fine".

Major brain fart. I was thinking about my HP DL360G7. THAT BMC KVM won't work.

 

[jgreco]

Major brain fart. I was thinking about my HP DL360G7. THAT BMC KVM won't work.

Oh. Yeah. Yes, the older generation Dell and HP KVM stuff is falling apart without a whole hell of a lot of recourse.

 

[Newfoundland.Republic]

I'm down to an old Windows 7 VM with Internet Explorer (with no Internet access )

 

[kirkdickinson]

I am looking at Motherboards. Is there an advantage of using this board
SUPERMICRO MBD-X11SSH-LN4F-O Micro ATX Server Motherboard LGA 1151 Intel C236 $238.99
instead of this one:
SUPERMICRO MBD-X11SSM-F-O Micro ATX Server Motherboard LGA 1151 Intel C236 $210.54

If I spend $28 more, I can get a board with M.2 and use an M.2 card instead of a DOM for boot up for nearly the same cost.

MDB-X11SSH-LNF-O $238.99 + Transcend 64GB M.2 $35.40 = $274.33

MDB-X11SSM-F-O $210.54 + Supermicro 32GB DOM $69.99 = $280.53

I have both boards, an M.2 and a DOM all in my list still.
https://secure.newegg.com/wishlist/pd/20397949 There are misc. things still needed for a full build, but those are the major items.

 

[Newfoundland.Republic]

One other consideration would be the number of Ethernet ports you need. I needed three so I would go with the X11SSH-LN4F as I wouldn't need an add-in NIC.