Server Upgrade is Getting Expensive. Need Advice

[Terrigat]

I've been wanting to refresh my 13 year old server for a while now and can't seem to find modern compatible server parts that fit the bill. I was hoping for some advice.

After years of bad ram prices I saw a stick of 16GB ecc ram for under $100 finally. Turns out RegECC is cheap for a reason.
Samsung DDR4 2133MHzCL15 16GB RegECC 2Rx4 M393A2G40DB0-CPB Specifically.


The GIGABYTE MW31-SP0 server board I saw for $250 has DisplayPort, HDMI, M.2 plus a PCIEx4 and TWO legacy PCI slots. The 8 SATA ports also mean I don't need to use my ancient addon cards of a bygone era to connect all my drives. The "refurbished" board was just an open box return. They never even popped the tape from the anti-static bag.

Turns out the Intel C236 chipset doesn't support RegECC ram even though I couldn't locate any official information indicating this outside of the quick install reference sheet that came with the mobo.

For $190 I can get Kingston Unbuffered ECC RAM that looks compatible but is also Kingston. My experience with Kingston is less than stellar.

Right now I've thrown $420 at hard drives to get my old server into ZFS but its an ancient AMD Quad 8GB NON-ECC DDR2 system. I did a stress test about 3 years ago when I bought the drives and the dang thing is still rock stable for a PC running 24/7 10 years straight.

Before I go too much further I thought more seasoned builders could say whether its time to just return the mobo and keep waiting or continue and pay the last $90 to get my server upgrade started. The Gigabyte board looks better spec-wise than similar SuperMicro boards but is it worth continuing just because of it. Is it time to put another $500 into this home server? Technically the silicon should hold for another 5-7 years.

 

[Chris Moore]

The GIGABYTE MW31-SP0 server board I saw for $250 has DisplayPort, HDMI, M.2 plus a PCIEx4 and TWO legacy PCI slots. The 8 SATA ports also mean I don't need to use my ancient addon cards of a bygone era to connect all my drives. The "refurbished" board was just an open box return. They never even popped the tape from the anti-static bag.

No. Don't go there. You are wasting good money.
Send it back and get a refund. Then we can talk about what you should have bought instead.

 

[Terrigat]

Wait. What did I miss? How bad is it?

 

[Chris Moore]

Wait. What did I miss? How bad is it?

I am developing a detailed response, but the short answer is, that isn't really a server board and you can do MUCH better.

 

[Chris Moore]

The Gigabyte board looks better spec-wise than similar SuperMicro boards

First, Gigabyte is stupid, they may call that a server board, but it is not, that is a workstation board at best. You can tell by the fact that it has integrated audio and that first x16 slot being double wide to accommodate a graphics card. A server has no need at all for a graphics card and FreeNAS least of all because the only local display is text only. That might be a great board for building a desktop PC, but it is terrible for a NAS because a FreeNAS system needs x8 slots and as many of them as possible to add things like 10Gb network cards, disk controller cards, etc. There are a couple kinds of x16 card you might want to put in a server, but the likelihood of using those in a home network is very low.

This is what you should get instead, so you can use the Registered memory that is so much less expensive:

System Board: Supermicro X9SRL-F Motherboard Socket LGA2011 System Board w/ I/O Shield - - US $249.99
https://www.ebay.com/itm/352538266577

Note: I bought two of these for under $150 each earlier this year. The price is inflated now because they are discontinued and supplies are running low. Supply and demand. They are great boards and still in demand. I would make an offer and try to get lower than the asking price.

Memory: SAMSUNG 16GB Samsung PC3L-12800R DDR3L 1600 Registered ECC Server Memory - - US $32.95
https://www.ebay.com/itm/143002302682

At that price, you may as well get two to start...

CPU Fan: Dynatron R27 Side Fan CPU Cooler 3U for Intel Socket LGA2011 (Narrow ILM) - - US $39.59
https://www.ebay.com/itm/401284811045

Note: The system board requires a heat-sync with Narrow ILM, so if you want something different, just be sure it is compatible.

CPU: Intel Xeon E5-2650 V2 2.6GHz 8 Core 20MB 8GT/s SR1A8 LGA2011 ( Ivy Bridge ) Processor - - US $79
https://www.ebay.com/itm/254016292483

Let me know how many drives you need and I can talk to you more about drive controllers.

For the drive controller, I would suggest a SAS controller, just to get all the drives on a single controller. It works better that way. One SAS controller like this can run up to 256 drives by use of expander controllers. We can talk more about that when you need more drives but this will get you to eight drives to start.

Drive Controller: SAS PCI-E 3.0 HBA LSI 9207-8i P20 IT Mode for ZFS FreeNAS - - US $44.88
https://www.ebay.com/itm/192639052923

Drive Cables: Mini SAS to 4-SATA SFF-8087 Multi-Lane Forward Breakout Internal Cable - - US $12.99
https://www.ebay.com/itm/371681252206

I would suggest one of these SSDs for the boot drive, two if you want redundancy.
These are used drives, but as a boot drive in FreeNAS, it should last as long as the server, if not longer:

Boot drive: Intel-320-Series-40GB-Internal-2-5-SSDSA2CT040G3-SSD - - US $18.79
https://www.ebay.com/itm/323548302120

 

[Chris Moore]

TWO legacy PCI slots.

Why does that matter to you?

 

[Terrigat]

Thanks for the detailed info.

Before you put too much thought into this some more background should help.

The Intel G4560 I'm trying to give new life is already 1 year old CPU I had put to use getting someone a working PC after a hardware failure. With the new 100/200/300 series chipset incompatibility crap Intel pulled I had it just sitting inside a box with the basically free Z170 mobo that came with it.

The AMD system is an old PC that was repurposed into a server. It use to be an Ubuntu MythTV system. I started the server back when I was suppose to be getting into IT and wanted some cheap hands on learning.

Some of the legacy hardware could need PCI slots and just gives me options for reusing some old addins like my PATA card. Yeah, yeah I know. But they still work in a pinch and are over 100GB in size. Too much failure redundancy maybe? Probably. All my "newer" SATA drives rescued from retired DELL Pent4's throw SMART errors. Also an old eSATA card that connects the original 4x2TB 6TB RAID externally when doing offline manual backups.

A PCIE slot will help with possible future addin cards. This thing may operate for another 10 years I can only hope.

The case I'm using is a first gen ATX Antec 300. It can hold the 6 3TB SATA3 drives while also running multiple 120MM fans.

It connects to a CONSUMER 10 Gigabit switch using just a CAT6 cable run.

A VGA port may work today but a DVI cable minimum would be better for when I may need to get a future trash monitor for access in case of bad updates breaking remote access. (RANT) The original Ubuntu install made me paranoid about this after an update broke networking and the screen / keyboard wouldn't work without rebooting the system with them attached because F You I guess.(/RANT)

I already have a Crucial Enterprise SSD 256GB so that's always nice.

Operating ZFS out of spec for three years on 13 year old hardware without ECC RAM is kind of harrowing. The price of ram was normal back then. Didn't know it would jump up so high.

I also don't wish to build a system that can only operate as a FreeNas system. I already had to switch Linux Distros once.

If I can't reuse the case and $60 CPU the upgrade should just wait. Again.

 

[Chris Moore]

I had typed a long reply and accidentally deleted it. I don't want to type it again. I will lead out with this. I do this kind of thing for work and recreation.

The Intel G4560 I'm trying to give new life is already 1 year old CPU I had put to use getting someone a working PC after a hardware failure. With the new 100/200/300 series chipset incompatibility crap Intel pulled I had it just sitting inside a box with the basically free Z170 mobo that came with it.

Sell it on eBay. It isn't compatible with Registered ECC memory.

The AMD system is an old PC that was repurposed into a server. It use to be an Ubuntu MythTV system. I started the server back when I was suppose to be getting into IT and wanted some cheap hands on learning.

Not relevant.

Some of the legacy hardware could need PCI slots and just gives me options for reusing some old addins like my PATA card. Yeah, yeah I know.

You wouldn't be using that with FreeNAS.

But they still work in a pinch and are over 100GB in size.

That amount of storage is not worth the cost of spinning the drive. Throw it in the garbage and pickup a 1TB drive for $25 on eBay. You can get a 10TB drive now and it costs less to run than that old 100GB drive. Seriously, they are not worth the cost of recycling.

Too much failure redundancy maybe? Probably. All my "newer" SATA drives rescued from retired DELL Pent4's throw SMART errors.

What redundancy? If they have SMART errors, it is time to throw them out and get new drives. Drives don't last forever.

Also an old eSATA card that connects the original 4x2TB 6TB RAID externally when doing offline manual backups.

They make PCIe eSATA cards, but you shouldn't be using that with FreeNAS. It isn't reliable for use with FreeNAS, especially if it is a SATA port multiplier.

A PCIE slot will help with possible future addin cards. This thing may operate for another 10 years I can only hope.

Six years is a better goal. Ten years should be a maximum. The 13 years you are stating is well past where it should have been replaced.

The case I'm using is a first gen ATX Antec 300. It can hold the 6 3TB SATA3 drives while also running multiple 120MM fans.

The case is not really all that good but it is not really a problem with the system. You can add as many as five drives with a drive bay adapter in the three 5.25 inch drive bays. There is also an easy way to expand to a second chassis of drives. I will see if I can find photos but we have had several forum users build SAS expansion chassis to add more drives to their FreeNAS server.

A VGA port may work today but a DVI cable minimum would be better for when I may need to get a future trash monitor for access in case of bad updates breaking remote access. (RANT) The original Ubuntu install made me paranoid about this after an update broke networking and the screen / keyboard wouldn't work without rebooting the system with them attached because F You I guess.(/RANT)

The Supermicro system board has IPMI for remote management and there is no need to connect a keyboard, mouse or monitor to it ever. Here is a demo video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPv_ikws7A0

I also don't wish to build a system that can only operate as a FreeNas system. I already had to switch Linux Distros once.

I have used these systems with Windows, Linux, Solaris, and FreeNAS. The hardware does not limit you.

If I can't reuse the case and $60 CPU the upgrade should just wait. Again.

The case is a non issue, but if a $60 processor is holding you up, just sell it on eBay and use the money to buy the Xeon I linked you to.

 

[Terrigat]

Your familiarity with these advanced home setups is impressive. I wish I still had the resources and time to devote to a more commercial setup. Also I think I wasn't clear about just how cheap a setup I've got or how low a budget I'm working with. The hard drives in this system are worth more than all other parts of my network setup combined. I understand now this may be the wrong place for my current budgetary constraints.

Side Notes:
These drives you would toss have served me for software testing, hardware break ins and setting up new automated windows installs for years. SMART errors and size are irrelevant for temp test runs. And those old drives are recovered drives for free not more money down and another weekend of SMART testing a crap drive from EBay. Even the drives I currently use 2 of 8 errored out during break in.

The board you recommend doesn't even have PCI-E.

Not everyone has had a good experience with selling through EBay. Scammers trying to get free shit is the norm from my time there.

I ended up with that trash eSATA port replicator and External Dock for free so I'm making use of it. My only other case I have is housing a E6600 4GB DDR2 software testing system.

I think that my current proficiency is quite relevant to this. This isn't part of my job. It's simply usable home data retention. An appliance.

 

[Chris Moore]

The board you recommend doesn't even have PCI-E.

PCIe - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express
You need to learn what PCIe is because you don't know what you are talking about.

Not everyone has had a good experience with selling through EBay. Scammers trying to get free crap is the norm from my time there.

Yes, it can be a pain in the @$$ but I have sold thousands of dollars of my old gear on eBay and it is also a good source for gear because of their strong return policy.

I ended up with that trash eSATA port replicator and External Dock for free so I'm making use of it. My only other case I have is housing a E6600 4GB DDR2 software testing system.

I feel bad that you can't afford newer gear. Sorry.

It's simply usable home data retention.

I would say it isn't usable, but if it does the job for you. You were the one talking about spending $250 for a system board and another $190 for a memory module

Is it time to put another $500 into this home server?

The parts list I gave you is less than that. If you have no budget for hardware, I don't think anyone can help you.

 

[Terrigat]

PCIe - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express
You need to learn what PCIe is because you don't know what you are talking about.

Yes, it can be a pain in the @$$ but I have sold thousands of dollars of my old gear on eBay and it is also a good source for gear because of their strong return policy.

I feel bad that you can't afford newer gear. Sorry.

I would say it isn't usable, but if it does the job for you. You were the one talking about spending $250 for a system board and another $190 for a memory module

The parts list I gave you is less than that. If you have no budget for hardware, I don't think anyone can help you.

I was thinking PCI-E x 4. Didn't notice the reversed spacer showing its PCI-E x8. My bad.

$450 for a system manufactured from new hardware (2016) that is still receiving support and under warranty versus a $500 system from Ebay without support or warranty from 2012? Hardly a fair comparison. Even if it is Kingston / Gigabyte vs Samsung / SuperMicro.

And thanks for setting the mood of this forum so well. I know telling strangers the same think over and over can get tiring. Thanks for sharing your time.

 

[Chris Moore]

$450 for a system manufactured from new hardware (2016) that is still receiving support and under warranty versus a $500 system from Ebay without support or warranty from 2012? Hardly a fair comparison.

The big difference is that one is actual server gear where the other is not. If you can only use the gear you already have, the cost is not relevant, but to get sever gear for less money I have been buying used gear from eBay for years and I have not had very many instances where there was a problem with the hardware. If it is immediately defective, you can easily get your refund and send the item back. If the item works initially, it is just as likely to continue working as any other computer you may obtain. I am currently using a laptop that I purchased from eBay around 3.5 years ago and have had no problems with it. This is in addition to all the server gear I have purchased. I have six servers running at home in addition to a desktop and a laptop, all from eBay.

I just don’t see the warranty as being a real issue. The money saved is worth it. But I understand that not everyone has my affinity for used gear, just like not everyone is willing to purchase a used car.

 

[danb35]

Or you can buy a brand new box. The Dell PowerEdge T30 is $309 today with a Xeon E3-1225v5, 8GB of RAM, and even a 1TB hard drive. I imagine you'll be able to find other good deals on low-end servers over the next couple of weeks as well.

 

[Yorick]

@Chris Moore The X9SRL-F mentions only QR memory in the manual, and you have DR memory at 1600 there. Do you happen to know whether DR is fully supported? Asking because of the thread just opened where someone is running into memory error message on POST with samsung DR 1600, 16GB, once they have 4 modules in.

Maybe QR 1333 rdimm is the better choice. Or lrdimm if it’s a 2600 not 1600 CPU, depending on what’s easier to find. Something like https://www.ebay.com/itm/64GB-4x16GB-PC3-10600R-DDR3-4Rx4-ECC-Reg-RDIMM-Server-Memory-for-X9QR7-TF/202493476269?hash=item2f258d3dad:g:~r0AAOSw6VRZ6jD6

Mystery solved? Looks like insulating washers are needed between standoffs and motherboard when using slot C1. Go figure. https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/supermicro-x9srl-f-boot-error-b7-and-b9.73025/