Return of the logout button

[cyberjock]

In defense of the argument that "the button is gone and isn't coming back", FreeNAS 10's WebGUI is *totally* different. Aside from having the FreeNAS logo and the FreeNAS name, it looks nothing even remotely close to the "FreeNAS we all love". So please keep this in mind as things are changing in a major way. So if you are arguing because you are against change in any form, you've lost the battle long ago. But if the button had utilitarian value, then you are definitely welcome to argue your point. ;)

 

[jkh]

These buttons are in a completely separate screen (in FreeNAS 10) now. There is no tree menu. :)

Basically, the FreeNAS 9.3 UI is essentially feature-frozen except for the most significant and necessary changes (e.g. if we have to add a feature to keep people from destroying their pool, and it has some UI, OK - that meets the bar). Cosmetic things like this, however, definitely no.

 

[anodos]

In defense of the argument that "the button is gone and isn't coming back", FreeNAS 10's WebGUI is *totally* different. Aside from having the FreeNAS logo and the FreeNAS name, it looks nothing even remotely close to the "FreeNAS we all love". So please keep this in mind as things are changing in a major way. So if you are arguing because you are against change in any form, you've lost the battle long ago. But if the button had utilitarian value, then you are definitely welcome to argue your point. ;)

Another GUI change :(.
Honestly, learning a new GUI is just too inefficient, I just want to be able to administer my FreeNAS entirely from the CLI!

 

[jkh]

Another GUI change :(.
Honestly, learning a new GUI is just too inefficient, I just want to be able to administer my FreeNAS entirely from the CLI!

FreeNAS 10 also has a new CLI. It's quite nice - integrated help, tab completion, a complete nested hierarchy of commands. So yes, you will be able to do exactly that, and remotely as well (the CLI has the ability to run on other OSes and connect to FreeNAS remotely).

 

[jgreco]

Ugh.

 

[cyberjock]

Ugh.

Ditto.

 

[SilverJS]

Ugh.

Why?

 

[cyberjock]

Well, for the most part, the CLI is where people commit digital suicide around here. Few people are willing to admit that they should not touch the CLI. By adding things like what jkh said are going to be in FreeNAS 10, we're inviting people to jump into the CLI and do things that they really shouldn't be doing.

While us more advanced users will probably enjoy some of the benefits (others won't matter much, like integrated help), it pretty much means the barrier to entry for the no-clue user to suddenly go to "advanced mode" (aka, the CLI) it means we're going to see a serious uptick in people that do stupid things, demand our immediately assistance, and expect is to provide it for free. So brace for the influx of people that have zero clue, don't understand our basic terminology, but expect us to do Teamviewer sessions with them and spend countless hours holding their hand.

We see it every time some new snazzy "makes it easier" feature is added. :P

 

[Alvin]

Are you guys sure you want a UNIX system? I've seen Microsoft admins disable right clicking because users could potentially do stuff by right clicking. Let's not go there. I want to be able to use the command line as much as possible.

 

[Rilo Ravestein]

UNIX??? Isn't FreeNAS Linux?????

 

[rogerh]

Are you guys sure you want a UNIX system? I've seen Microsoft admins disable right clicking because users could potentially do stuff by right clicking. Let's not go there. I want to be able to use the command line as much as possible.

There is an argument for saying that many home NAS users want a black box with simple controls: which they largely can't break by operating said controls. Currently playing with ZFS on Linux, and I can see why they might want the above things.

 

[anodos]

There is an argument for saying that many home NAS users want a black box with simple controls: which they largely can't break by operating said controls. Currently playing with ZFS on Linux, and I can see why they might want the above things.

I think there are two camps of people coming to freenas:
1) those who want something like a WD mycloud
2) those who want an enterprise NAS appliance

I don't think there is as much overlap in the design goals as one would think.

 

[jgreco]

UNIX??? Isn't FreeNAS Linux?????

Must... control... fist... of... death....!

 

[Ericloewe]

Well, for the most part, the CLI is where people commit digital suicide around here. Few people are willing to admit that they should not touch the CLI. By adding things like what jkh said are going to be in FreeNAS 10, we're inviting people to jump into the CLI and do things that they really shouldn't be doing.

While us more advanced users will probably enjoy some of the benefits (others won't matter much, like integrated help), it pretty much means the barrier to entry for the no-clue user to suddenly go to "advanced mode" (aka, the CLI) it means we're going to see a serious uptick in people that do stupid things, demand our immediately assistance, and expect is to provide it for free. So brace for the influx of people that have zero clue, don't understand our basic terminology, but expect us to do Teamviewer sessions with them and spend countless hours holding their hand.

We see it every time some new snazzy "makes it easier" feature is added. :p

For what it's worth (and maybe I'm just being a hopeless optimist), my reading of @jkh's comment is that the FreeNAS 10 middleware will interact with users through an API that can be accessed from a graphical environment (webGUI) or from a command line environment, which would be a restricted CLI to interact with the API and little (if anything) else.

Of course, this is only my interpretation of what's out there, not any sort of official and/or insider comment.

 

[Rilo Ravestein]

As long as the unrestricted cli will still be available for the folks who actually know what they are doing....

 

[jgreco]

Probably refer to THAT as a UNIX shell... CLI seems like it'll take on a new meaning.

 

[anodos]

Probably refer to THAT as a UNIX shell... CLI seems like it'll take on a new meaning.

Yeah, it wouldn't be a Linux without a proper CLI. :D

 

[jgreco]

Yeah, it wouldn't be a Linux without a proper CLI. :D

Moderation -> Users -> Ban -> @anodos

 

[cyberjock]

For what it's worth (and maybe I'm just being a hopeless optimist), my reading of @jkh's comment is that the FreeNAS 10 middleware will interact with users through an API that can be accessed from a graphical environment (webGUI) or from a command line environment, which would be a restricted CLI to interact with the API and little (if anything) else.

Of course, this is only my interpretation of what's out there, not any sort of official and/or insider comment.

That is basically true. But where is the line drawn between what is API stuff and what is bona fide command line stuff? I can tell you what it is because I have experience. But to Joe-Nooby he won't be able to tell the difference. They are all command line commands to him.

 

[Ericloewe]

That is basically true. But where is the line drawn between what is API stuff and what is bona fide command line stuff? I can tell you what it is because I have experience. But to Joe-Nooby he won't be able to tell the difference. They are all command line commands to him.

<Ignorant engineer voice>Surely something like a custom Shell/Interface/API-only CLI can be assembled, allowing only access to the API and a limited selection of curated non-API commands (smartctl comes to mind).</Ignorant engineer voice>

Seriously, though, I imagine the above is significantly more complicated than it sounds.