Why not to buy 'open box' hard drives.

[titan_rw]

Just thought I would post my experiences with 'open box' hardware.

I recently bought some external hard drives from my local computer store. I fully intended on pulling them from their enclosures and running them internally in the end. Some of them were 'open box' and discounted 5%. I got them home, and was surprised how easy it was to get smartctl to access them. Simply adding "-d sat" was enough. Running smart tests even worked through the usb bridge.

One of the 'open box' drives had 109 power on hours. And according to smart, had previously exceeded it's recommended operating temperature. Here's the relevant smart info:

Code:

ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000f   118   100   006    Pre-fail  Always       -       189285288
  3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0003   092   092   000    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0032   100   100   020    Old_age   Always       -       43
  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   100   100   010    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   069   060   030    Pre-fail  Always       -       4303945311
  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       198
 10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0013   100   100   097    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
 12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   100   100   020    Old_age   Always       -       36
183 Runtime_Bad_Block       0x0032   099   099   000    Old_age   Always       -       1
184 End-to-End_Error        0x0032   100   100   099    Old_age   Always       -       0
187 Reported_Uncorrect      0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
188 Command_Timeout         0x0032   100   099   000    Old_age   Always       -       0 0 3
189 High_Fly_Writes         0x003a   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022   072   035   045    Old_age   Always   In_the_past 28 (0 17 32 22 0)
191 G-Sense_Error_Rate      0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       23
193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       319
194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   028   065   000    Old_age   Always       -       28 (0 17 0 0 0)
197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0010   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x003e   200   190   000    Old_age   Always       -       462
240 Head_Flying_Hours       0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age   Offline      -       107h+56m+47.537s
241 Total_LBAs_Written      0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age   Offline      -       6068438234
242 Total_LBAs_Read         0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age   Offline      -       3637637284

SMART Error Log Version: 1
No Errors Logged

SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
Num  Test_Description    Status                  Remaining  LifeTime(hours)  LBA_of_first_error
# 1  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%       154         -

Note, that it's now at 198 power on hours, but was already at 109 when I powered it up the first time. Also, the UDMA crc error count was me. Guess I had a bad cable. When I cabled it up internally and booted freenas, I got a whole bunch of command time-outs. Changing the sata cable completely fixed the timeouts.

But most disturbingly is the failed "in the past" of the temperature. At some point 'in the past' it has exceeded it's operating temperature. I *think* seagate defines 60C as max operating temperature. So all I know is that this drive has gotten hotter than that, assuming it is a max of 60.

I called my local computer store, and talked to a manger. He explained that 'open box' means that a customer has purchased the item, brought it home and 'used it' for up to 7 days. Then brought it back and 'returned it' for whatever reason. The computer store's tech's then 're-qualifies' it, and they sell it as 'open box'.

To me, this is definitely more like 'used' than 'open box'. And certainly not worth a measly 5% off.

On the other hand, the same computer store has 'refurbished' items that are sold 20-50% off. These are items that the customer has brought back, the computer store has determined that they are faulty, and they return them to the manufacturer. When the manufacturer repairs / replaced them and the computer store receives the replacement, they sell it as refurbished. Depending on the item, I'll take a chance on this kind of deal. Much better discounts, and it's "manufacturer refurbished", and not "local computer store used".

It's interesting that my definition of 'open box', where the box is 'opened' in-store, but the product has never been purchased or 'used' by a customer, the computer store here sells as "new". But their definition of 'open box' to me is actually a 'used' product, way beyond just being 'open box'.

Anyway, I'll see how the drive behaves. I probably could have gotten my money back for the 'open box', but I just didn't want to bother. I definitely won't be buying any more 'open box' deals from that particular store though. Wanted to throw out a warning to check what 'open box' means before buying anything.

 

[cyberjock]

Yeah, I was surprised when I saw the title. It's a no-brainer that buying hard drives that aren't "brand new" are potentially very bad. Even with refurbished drives(that come with something like a 90 day warranty) I'd never buy them. Just not worth it.

 

[Rocky]

The concept of the "Open box" in my experience is that the manufacturer warranty is typically still intact whereas refurbished has a shorter warranty...

 

[titan_rw]

That's true, but in both cases the product has been 'used and abused' by a previous customer. In the case of 'open box', I'm relying on the local computer store and their 'techs' to refurbish / re-qualify the product. In the case of 'refurbished', it's the actual manufacturer that does that.

I have far more faith in the manufacturer than I do the techie at the local computer store.

I guess the whole point of the thread was to point out I wasn't aware that 'open box' meant 'customer purchased, brought home for undetermined amount of time and used product, customer returned product'. I thought it meant 'box opened in store, product never sold, or left store'.

The latter (what I thought open box meant), my local computer store sells as 'new'. You don't get any discount at all for a product that's had it's seal broken, as long as it's never been sold.

I think the 'labels' are misleading that's all.

 

[Rocky]

Just an FYI - once a product leaves the store the store can no longer legally (re)sell it as new - hence the relabelling of it being 'Open box'. Items that are used for display but never used has original packaging, etc can still be sold as New - if it's been used as part of the display (demos) I don't believe can be sold as "New" but as "Demo" but typically original manufacture warranty is applied since the item was used under "controlled" environment.

While I understand the confusion - and in a sense don't disagree with what you're saying, it's not uncommon.