Used Supermicro servers - need help deciding

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So on cyberjocks advice I looked around on eBay for used servers and found me 2 old Supermicro machines:

1. Machine:
Case: 19" Rackmount 3U
Mainboard: SuperMicro X7DBE
CPU: Intel Xeon E5430
RAM: 8GB DDR2 ECC FB
HDD mounts: 16x on Caddys
IDE Slimline DVD drive
Dual GBit LAN Intel 82563EB
6 SATA Ports via ESB2

Price: 249€

Advantages:
Cheaper
more HDD mounts

2. Machine:
Case: Standalone Tower
Mainboard: SuperMicro X8DTL-6F
CPU: 2* Intel Xeon E5520
RAM: 12 GB DDR3 ECC
HDD mounts: 4x on Caddys
SATA DVD drive
Dual GBit LAN Intel 82574L
6 SATA Ports via ICH10R
8 SAS Ports via LSI MegaRAID SAS 8704EM2 (onboard)

Price: 499€

Advantages:
More ports
newer
more RAM
fits where my current server is now

I'm tending to the first machine because it is way cheaper and takes more drives. As for the old hardware I'm guessing I can always rip out the old mobo, cpu and ram and put in newer stuff later.
What do you guys think?
 

cyberjock

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Can you provide links? I'll let oyu know what I think of the system when I can see it all. :)

Or is this custom assembly from different buyers and you put it together yourself?
 

cyberjock

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I like the rack mountable one more. My take on it is to buy it, then up the RAM to 12 or 16GB and leave it alone.

The second one isn't a bad buy at all. It does have limited number of slots for hard drives. The things that make the more extensive server better are limited in other ways. Who cares about the extra SATA ports if you can't install that many drives anyway?

The rackmount server can basically ready to do 16 disks right now with just a RAM upgrade. If you don't do dedup, compression, or plan to do transcoding with plex you should get very good speeds with it. If/when it becomes too slow you should be able to gut the rackmount with newer hardware and still have 16 slots available. So I see it as a good deal now and a good deal in the future.
 

pulpito

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My opinion , is that this type of servers , creates a lot of noise , if you are going to have this at home , please be aware of that.
I have in the past a IBM server similar to these , but was no acceptable for my wife at home because heat too
 
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So, I ordered the rack mounted machine now. When its here I'm gonna find out about the noise level and then decide where to put it =)

According to the product page of the case (836TQ-R800B) the built-in fans are 80mm
So they shouldnt be too loud. But I can always get some quieter ones
 

cyberjock

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Don't be fooled by size. Supermicro fans go to like 7000 RPM or something. They can sometimes draw 12-15watts each! They can get plenty loud if you are in a hot room. :)

You aren't playing with toy computers anymore. This is where you get hair on your chest and are a real man.
 
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Well, I can always put the server down in the basement, if I manage to route a network cable there =)
So I got me a 4TB WD Red today. Now I just need to wait for my server to be delivered
 

Rand

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There is a thread for the same chassis on hadwareluxx.de with some comments on noise and additional infos;
And it is loud - at least with FreeNas since it doesnt throttle the fans.

Btw - if you use the board you get with it you need to realize its using massive amounts of power due to using fully buffered memory modules...
 

cyberjock

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I'm sorry, but that video isn't necessarily a good reflection of reality. They get quieter after the system completes POST. Now, if you leave it set to maximum airflow it will stay that loud, but the setting of "optimal" is sooo much quieter there's no comparison.
 
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Well, I'll see how it goes when the box is here, which should be somewhen next week. But there should be ways to get it quieter, like different fans and stuff
 

Satam

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I'm sorry, but that video isn't necessarily a good reflection of reality. They get quieter after the system completes POST. Now, if you leave it set to maximum airflow it will stay that loud, but the setting of "optimal" is sooo much quieter there's no comparison.
Yep, until it it gets hot again within the case. If the server stands in a room that doesn't stay cool in the summer then it will get loud again during that period.

Well, I'll see how it goes when the box is here, which should be somewhen next week. But there should be ways to get it quieter, like different fans and stuff
Sure there is, look at what he did next:
Manual fan control. I don't know about that... I'd get some multimeter temperature probes in there after such a mod to test how hot it really gets around the components. And if that were my workplace that would still be too loud for me.

Keep in mind that they are designed to be able spin that fast for a reason. The air path is much narrower in a server case than in a desktop case, so the fans need more maximum throughput. On the other hand especially with storage cases there's only one straight front to back way for the air to flow, the disks are located in a more optimized path than in desktop cases where there are plenty of gaps for turbulences and alternative routes. Air takes the path of least resistance and if there's a nice gap between the HDD cage and the case door as is in most desktop cases, the fresh air will happily flow around the HDD cage and not through it. But then again because of its compact build and the lack of internal space for convection and alternative air vents at the top a minium airflow is an obsolute must in a server case. Heat dispersal through air convection and out of the top vents won't work in a server case like it still would in an ATX desktop case if fans fail.

I don't know, a server case looks cool and professional, but for my home...? Those small vents at the front will be covered up with dust in no time, believe me. A cooling mod might work in the beginning but might eventually fail once the front and the inside of the case got clotted up with dust. Vacuum those front vents regularly. Another idea would be to get a enclosed rack with a door, they aren't that expensive especially used ones and a dust filter should be easy to install in one of those. But then you will have to remove any fan voltage mods again for better cooling which wouldn't be a big deal since the enclosed rack has the benefit of dampening the noise. There are many possibilities for modding a rack, adding soundproofing materials, extra vents and dust filters. Of course, you could mod the rack mount server case instead, but they are designed to run in a clean and cool environment, which you could try to create with a modded rack.

In the end specific enclosures are designed for specific environments, when you switch them, things might not work out as designed. Look at what the market has to offer, it shows what people usually do to get things done. They sell racks specifically designed for in office use with sound dampening and dust filters. But server cases with all those things you won't find that easily. Sound dampening and dust covers are integrated into many if not most commercially available desktop cases. Now the conclusion which I draw from that is to either get a desktop case with all those mods (or add them myself) or get a rack with those mods (or add them myself) and put a server case into that one. I have chosen the first one because it's cheaper and I can spend more money on the actual computer components. You got your server for a bargain, which maybe enables you to invest some money into a nice rack. Since the 19" rack mount system won't be out of date any time soon this has the benefit that you can repurpose that rack for many servers to come or even resell for a profit. If you mod your server case, well. It is probably gone when you replace the server, chances are that you can't fit a new board into it or it doesn't meet your other future requirements in some way.

I'm not saying that this is the ultimate way, these are just some thoughts you might not have considered. Different things might work out well enough for different purposes.

In my personal opinion a 19" server case and a nice air-conditioning rack to put it into is the optimal solution for keeping the hardware "healthy" even at home. But for me that's far beyond what I'd like to invest.
 
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If I put it in the basement I don't need to worry about any air conditioning. The temps there rarely exceed 15°C (I live in the alps). Also, I found that thread at hardwareluxx Rand mentioned, and they have some ideas too, specifically for this SC836 case
 

jgreco

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And it is loud - at least with FreeNas since it doesnt throttle the fans.

It is the BMC, not the OS, responsible for throttling the fans. This statement would be true for other OS's as well.
 

Rand

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It is the BMC, not the OS, responsible for throttling the fans. This statement would be true for other OS's as well.
Really?
So no OS could throttle for my board if the boards BMC does not provide the proper interfaces? So i *could* blame Intel?;)
 

jgreco

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The OS can ask the BMC to do things, but it is still the BMC doing them. The point of the BMC is for it to be intelligent.
 

jgreco

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What exactly is FreeNAS supposed to say to the BMC? "Hi, I think my user may be an idiot and so I am going to override the cooling mode he configured"? This has ALL KINDS of stupid and fail written all over it.

If you want your fans throttled, WHY DON'T YOU JUST SET IT UP THAT WAY?
 
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