Second Build - (Please) talk me into something sensible

[George51]

My current build is as per my signature, as of this week I have reached 87% full! Not a good place, I know.

My aim is to upgrade to something bigger, and better.

I would like to go to a Supermicro board (based on these forums) and preferably a supermicro case.

I am looking to put a second vdev in, so end up with 2 x 6 disk raid Z2 vdevs. I would also like to run the OS on mirrored ssds rather than USBs, so space for two of these would be ideal. The board I like the look of is the X10DRH-iT, but I know that is because of the 10GBase-T ports and 2 x CPUs, which in reality is of no use to me, as the rest of my network is 1G and I don't really think I need 2 CPUs.

I would like more than my current 16Gb RAM, in my head at least 32. My intended use is utilising it to synchronise ~10 peoples files, relatively heavy use of Plex, including multiple transcodes. I have currently got half a dozen or so jails running, nothing to taxing though - things like a unifi controller software, syncthing etc.

Any suggestions would be greatly received.

Edit: Maybe the X11SSH-TF would be a little more sensible, don't really think I need to have two CPUs...

Edit 2: My thoughts so far:

Board: X11SSH-TF - £372
Case: CSE-826BLP - £1022
CPU: E3 1270v6 - £346 - The E3 1280v6 is only an extra £46 here, worth it?
Hdds: 6 x 4 TB WD Reds - £690
RAM: 2 x Samsung 16GB - £328

Total £2758

Also will need 2 x ssd, but only big enough for OS so not a massive expense. What (if any cabling) do I need with the Supermicro case?

 

[Chris Moore]

(Please) talk me into something sensible.

No way... ;)

I am looking to put a second vdev in, so end up with 2 x 6 disk raid Z2 vdevs.

That is what I use... Good deal.

The board I like the look of is the X10DRH-iT, but I know that is because of the 10GBase-T ports and 2 x CPUs

The price of RAM (DDR4) for that system is jacked right now. I would suggest staying with something that is X9 and uses DDR3. The performance difference is negligible but the price difference is huge.
One of our users here found it reasonable to buy one of these and have a third party shipper deliver it to Australia because of the 'bang for the buck' equation. You might want to look into it:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Supermicro...Core-256gb-24x-Trays-SAS2-846EL1/292253209770
All you need to add to that is your boot drives, data drives and a SAS controller.
For the SAS controller, you could use one of these which is conveniently already flashed to the IT mode firmware:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-H310-...0-IT-Mode-for-ZFS-FreeNAS-unRAID/162834659601
If I recall correctly, the chassis only needs one cable to connect from that controller to the hot-swap backplane and it may be included as the seller simply removed the controller that was in the system and sold it separately.
That chassis may not include it, but there is a optional bracket you can get to mount your boot drives in the bay next to the system board. It looks like this:

This gets you a complete system (just add controller and drives) for just a little more than the cost of parts you had picked out but I have no idea what shipping will run you. Still, as I said, there was this guy in Australia that did it not too long ago.
https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/lets-talk-rackmount.58012/page-2#post-413691

PS: A drive like this would be more than adequate for a boot drive and last for years all by itself:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-SSD-...a-solid-state-drive-w-30DAYSWRTY/162099175292

 

[danb35]

A few other things to consider:

• Are you sure you won't want to expand past 12 disks? Consider an 846 chassis instead of the 826, which would give you 24 bays.
• When using an SSD for a boot device, mirroring the boot device really is overkill in most cases--a single SSD will be plenty.
• Consider used hardware, especially for the chassis. We probably see better deals on eBay in .us than in .uk, but it can still save quite a bit.

 

[BigDave]

Edit 2: My thoughts so far:

Board: X11SSH-TF - £372
Case: CSE-826BLP - £1022
CPU: E3 1270v6 - £346 - The E3 1280v6 is only an extra £46 here, worth it?
Hdds: 6 x 4 TB WD Reds - £690
RAM: 2 x Samsung 16GB - £328

Total £2758

I like your list, a lot!
Do you need (now) 10GBe, is your network already set up for this, or are you future proofing?

 

[George51]

No way... ;)

That is what I use... Good deal.

The price of RAM (DDR4) for that system is jacked right now. I would suggest staying with something that is X9 and uses DDR3. The performance difference is negligible but the price difference is huge.
One of our users here found it reasonable to buy one of these and have a third party shipper deliver it to Australia because of the 'bang for the buck' equation. You might want to look into it:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Supermicro...Core-256gb-24x-Trays-SAS2-846EL1/292253209770
All you need to add to that is your boot drives, data drives and a SAS controller.
For the SAS controller, you could use one of these which is conveniently already flashed to the IT mode firmware:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-H310-...0-IT-Mode-for-ZFS-FreeNAS-unRAID/162834659601
If I recall correctly, the chassis only needs one cable to connect from that controller to the hot-swap backplane and it may be included as the seller simply removed the controller that was in the system and sold it separately.
That chassis may not include it, but there is a optional bracket you can get to mount your boot drives in the bay next to the system board. It looks like this:
View attachment 22247
This gets you a complete system (just add controller and drives) for just a little more than the cost of parts you had picked out but I have no idea what shipping will run you. Still, as I said, there was this guy in Australia that did it not too long ago.
https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/lets-talk-rackmount.58012/page-2#post-413691

PS: A drive like this would be more than adequate for a boot drive and last for years all by itself:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-SSD-...a-solid-state-drive-w-30DAYSWRTY/162099175292

So I looked at that one, unfortunately they don't ship to the UK.

I will agree with the boot drive. I won't worry about mirroring it.

A few other things to consider:

• Are you sure you won't want to expand past 12 disks? Consider an 846 chassis instead of the 826, which would give you 24 bays.
• When using an SSD for a boot device, mirroring the boot device really is overkill in most cases--a single SSD will be plenty.
• Consider used hardware, especially for the chassis. We probably see better deals on eBay in .us than in .uk, but it can still save quite a bit.

I am happy to set and stick to 12 disks, I can't justify a bigger chassis at this point! (unfortunately)
I will be scouring eBay for the chassis certainly!

I like your list, a lot!
Do you need (now) 10GBe, is your network already set up for this, or are you future proofing?

Future proofing - the rest of my network is stuck at 1 currently, however as it becomes more commonplace I will upgrade!

With the board and case from my list, what cables would I need for the hdds - I have never ventured away from simple SATA cables straight into the board. Would I need something like a M1015 HBA and the associated cables?

 

[BigDave]

With the board and case from my list, what cables would I need for the hdds - I have never ventured away from simple SATA cables straight into the board. Would I need something like a M1015 HBA and the associated cables?

You will need an Host Bus Adapter card for sure, but your backplane in the case you've chosen has a SAS3 single expander so I think a newer generation card (SAS3 12GB/s) would be the way to go.
Card model LSI 9300-8i
Cables are the SFF-8643 mini-SAS, that look like this

 

[George51]

You will need an Host Bus Adapter card for sure, but your backplane in the case you've chosen has a SAS3 single expander so I think a newer generation card (SAS3 12GB/s) would be the way to go.
Card model LSI 9300-8i
Cables are the SFF-8643 mini-SAS, that look like this
View attachment 22309

Okay so on reflection, given that I am only going to be running WD Reds in it... a new SAS3 expander is probably overkill?

Maybe something like the 826BA-R920LPB which is only £867 rather than £1022

Which would then mean there is little point getting a SAS3 HBA, so the forum favourites of a M1015 looks like a better choice now?

Just to check my understanding, If I got that case and the M1015, I would need one(?) SFF-8087 male to male cable, and that goes from the M1015 to the backplane of the case, the hdds go straight into the backplane?
I see the backplane has three 8087 ports, do I need all of them utilised for 12 hdds?
I've read the M1015 can support up to 32 hdds, but in other places I've read it can only do 8?

 

[danb35]

I see the backplane has three 8087 ports, do I need all of them utilised for 12 hdds?

With the -A backplane, yes (so you'd need another HBA). I'm not a big fan of the -A, but it definitely beats the -TQ.

I've read the M1015 can support up to 32 hdds, but in other places I've read it can only do 8?

With a SAS expander, I believe it can support up to 127 disks. Without one, 8 is the limit.

 

[jgreco]

With the -A backplane, yes (so you'd need another HBA).

Why would you burn 12 watts on another HBA, when there's a bunch of SATA ports available on the mainboard, and you can use a reverse breakout cable to attach them to the backplane?

It limits those bays to SATA, of course, but seems like a reasonable use of a resource that's just sitting there useless.

 

[danb35]

when there's a bunch of SATA ports available on the mainboard,

Yeah, that would be another way to do it.

 

[BigDave]

Okay so on reflection, given that I am only going to be running WD Reds in it... a new SAS3 expander is probably overkill?

Correct.

Maybe something like the 826BA-R920LPB which is only £867 rather than £1022

No, you want a chassis with the BPN-SAS2-826EL1 model backplane, this will give the most value for the money (IMHO) ;)

I see the backplane has three 8087 ports, do I need all of them utilised for 12 hdds?

If the backplane has an expander chipset, a single cable will connect all 12 bays to the HBA (M1015 or equivalent).

 

[danb35]

If the backplane has an expander chipset

...which the backplane he's suggesting doesn't. But I agree with you that would be the most convenient to connect.

 

[George51]

Why would you burn 12 watts on another HBA, when there's a bunch of SATA ports available on the mainboard, and you can use a reverse breakout cable to attach them to the backplane?

It limits those bays to SATA, of course, but seems like a reasonable use of a resource that's just sitting there useless.

That was going to be my next my next question, so thanks for answering that!

Okay so I have found this on eBay, It is still just a backplane not an expander as far as I can figure out.

So if this was my new list

Board: X11SSH-TF - £372
Case: 826E16 - £420
CPU: E3 1270v6 - £346 - The E3 1280v6 is only an extra £46 here, worth it?
Hdds: 6 x 4 TB WD Reds - £690
RAM: 2 x Samsung 16GB - £328
HBA: M1015 - £47 - As far as I can tell, although from China it looks like a genuine one? Or am I being a fool?
Reverse Breakout cables: here - £12
8087 - 8087 cable x2: here - £18
SSD (for boot): Kingston 60Gb - £24

Total £2257

So the case comes with an X9DRi-LN4F+ board, which whilst not awful, I feel I would like newer - so my intention is just to sell that on again.

So the way I see it working, new board, fits into the old case. a 920W, redundant PSU is more than enough for 12 hdds and the rest as far as I can tell. THE HBA powers 8 of the HDDs on the backplane via two mini-sas to mini-sas cables, the last four are powered by the reverse break out cable. The SSD - the case doesn't look like it comes with the rear SSD mount, is this worth buying, or can you ad-hoc mount it in a supermicro case? And I assume this will require just a normal sata cable - and power cable as obviously it's not on a backplane of its own.

The board and RAM I am not 100% on yet, as I am looking at similar boards utilising DDR3 RAM.

Have I missed/overlooked anything? OR made any gross errors?

Cheers for all your help so far.

 

[danb35]

Velcro works fine to mount an SSD if you want to do it on the cheap.

 

[Constantin]

Velcro works fine to mount an SSD if you want to do it on the cheap.

Or duct tape. My SLOG plugs nicely into the Lian Li backplane but duct tape ensures it doesn't come loose. Stay classy out there!

 

[George51]

Velcro works fine to mount an SSD if you want to do it on the cheap.

That is exactly what I will do then!

I've started pulling the trigger on the build as per the list above. Any issues with that HBA from ebay? Or any other issues in general that I need to be aware of?