Requesting clarity for a new build

[PacothePig]

Hello all o/ first time poster, medium lurker. as title states im planning on a new build from my current one and want to get the parts list correct so i dont needlessly spend like i did the first time.

I am not new to PC building, i have built plenty of desktops in the past, but reading through posts and other's questions on builds has left me confused. i have read the Hardware 2021 R2a pdf, and i must say while some of the info in it did clear up things i didnt understand before (like the sata controller section, types of disks), for the main hardware (mobo and cpu and such), i must say im more confused than before.

my current build is using the second mobo i ever bought in my life (11 years and still kicking!) that id like to retire again in favor a proper build instead of the frakenstein i put together:
Mobo: Asus Sabertooth 990FX R2.0
CPU: AMD FX(tm)-8350 8 core
PSU1: Corsair 650
PSU2: Corsair 650x (yes two PSU's, my worry being too much draw on one PSU and instead splitting the load. probably overboard but just in case...)
HDD: (there is a reason why they are a mix, see footnote)
-4x WD Purple 4TB 5400
-5x Seagate 4TB 5400
HDD Controller: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07NFRXQHC/ (dont judge me, i didnt know what i was doing and was desperate to make it work)

since i dont want to run through a repeat of past mistakes, i would like advice based on my target goal and starting point

target goal: 10 disks (expandable, likely as two separate pools once i decide to get 11+ disks in the system), low-ish usage (storage of long term data, occasional stream of video) but strong enough to last a long time without needing a hardware upgrade. medium budget (though wouldnt surprise me if my goal hits the high side).

my starting point is this motherboard:
https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=E3C246D4U#Specifications / https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08DTTMPKC/
with this CPU:

https://www.amazon.com/Intel-BX80684E2134-2134-3-5-Threads-LGA1151/dp/B07KNM7925/

and this memory:

https://www.amazon.com/Kingston-16GB-SDRAM-Memory-Module/dp/B08GKVTVP9/

from there the harddrives i have now i will continue to use until i can replace them later with more recommended ones that i see in other posts (ex. the 5400 nas types).
will use a small (128 likely) nvme for boot disk

for the PSU(s), based on whether my starting point is correct i will check the estimated peak wattage to see if buying a single PSU to handle it all is better, or to continue using both for whenever i want to expand or start a second pool.

where i need the advice on:

1. the first three parts, are these supported / correct / good enough choices? if not, what am i misunderstanding or could theoretically be better?
2. the board only has 8 sata slots. for me to get back to my 9 disk configuration, i will need a proper controller. i had previously (and erroneously) bought this card https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01M2AC40Y/ which the older mobo didnt like. would this work or am i incorrect on the kind of hba that works? and if i am incorrect, what would work with this board?
3. regarding powering HDD's, the Hardware guide states that the molex connector is better than the sata ribbon that typically has 4 plugs in a row. should i buy extra molex power cables and molex to sata adapters or is that not what is being suggested? cause PSU's typically come with one maybe two of those molex types
4. anyone with experience on these kinds of boards, does the hdmi port on these boards work without any additional stuff required for the cpu or if i get the cpu listed above, am i still going to need a graphics card for initial install?

i will probably have more questions (a few already popping into my head already), but since they are based on the parts listed, i should confirm my part choices before continuing

Greatly appreciate any and all advice given

footnote - aka why the mix of HDDs:
so i started out as one of those people that bought a WD 'passport' for data storage. then moved to a 'my book' and kept upgrading its size as time went on. at one point i had two and worked alright, until the day one nearly died without me being able to transfer the data out in time. ever since then i was curious about the concept of RAID as a mirror or even better RAID5. not wanting to spend 700+$ on those fancy RAID devices (synology), i opted for some of those USB3.0 raid holders with the switches in the back that set the configuration, as trying to do a RAID5 via the bios wasnt always available (or caused more problems). that went for a while until windows started acting weird with the device, sometimes outright refusing to communicate or causing the device to stay in a non-responsive state. so when looking up another better solution, i came across FreeNAS/TrueNAS as a solution, and found its concept to be exactly what i wanted. hot-swappable, RAID5 and even the ZFS data structures. but, at this point i had bought TWO of those usb raid devices, each having a different type of drive, WD for one, Seagate for the other. i didnt have budget at the time for getting all of the same drive, so i just went with what i had on hand. seeing it come to life and working, i continued with it

 

[ChrisRJ]

Welcome to the forum!

Here are my thoughts:

• You are relatively vague about your use-case (like most people ). But it is the main(!) factor to determine what hardware makes sense. So please be as elaborate and precise as possible.
• Have you considered used enterprise gear? Anything not older than 8 years will probably be ok.
• If any of your drives is SMR, you should not use it for ZFS/TrueNAS. They do not work together well.
• ZFS is a bit special about the underlying hardware, which is another reason in favor of used enterprise gear.
• With increased electricity prices, are you sure you want/need to run that many drives?

 

[PacothePig]

Welcome to the forum!

Here are my thoughts:

• You are relatively vague about your use-case (like most people ). But it is the main(!) factor to determine what hardware makes sense. So please be as elaborate and precise as possible.
• Have you considered used enterprise gear? Anything not older than 8 years will probably be ok.
• If any of your drives is SMR, you should not use it for ZFS/TrueNAS. They do not work together well.
• ZFS is a bit special about the underlying hardware, which is another reason in favor of used enterprise gear.
• With increased electricity prices, are you sure you want/need to run that many drives?

thank you!
ooo good points, ill respond to each one

1. i can elaborate. current use is probably like anyone else starting out, storage for personal data. i even have videos that i downloaded from youtube a long time ago that are long since gone, photos, other random things here and there. other uses would be:
   1. storing VM's, snapshots, recovery images, docker containers
   2. surveillance footage from my camera PC
   3. potentially, video from game recordings ( i might get into that again)
   4. maybe create a plex server? im on the fence about it but still might do it should time and capability allow
2. i have seen some of the posts on used gear, but my inexperience and current setup is what is keeping me away from it. to eleborate:
   1. my "tower" is really built off of two of these main pieces, plus two of the short height ones: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01EGBZA1C/. combined together, it houses my amin work/gaming PC, my "server" pc, the current NAS PC running TrueNAS, and my surveillance PC. its all one object with 5 in wheels on the bottom so i can roll it out my back door for easy cleaning. but this case is built for normal desktop form factors, and i dont know if enterprise boards will fit in them correctly or without other issues. i dont want to purchase and then find out that it doesnt fit. also this thing is in the same room i sleep in. yeah a little noisy but ive gotten used to it + purchased quieter fans for the system that run all night long. its my preference to get something that can still fit in this case, and the board i listed appears to be fine
   2. i dont have much experience with enterprise grade equipment, or rack building. i dont have space for a rack anywhere in my home so system geared for that are not favourable. and yes while my monster tower of pc cases could at first glance be thought of as a rack in space, it is quite right in terms of available space.
   3. purchasing older gear worries me. not just the longevity, component condition and length of use already, but since i have no experience with it. and even if its new, im even less certain about what to buy for it or what actually works together. prices seem to be wild between one end to the other, so my uncertainly and lack of knowledge pushes me away from that kind of stuff and would prefer to stick to stuff that pieces together similarly to a desktop and potentially newer in release for support
3. i need to check to see if the ones i have are SMR or not. they currently "work", in that there is a functional pool and i can access the SMB share from my windows machine, transfer to and from without issues, but wouldnt surprise me if something else could be going on without me knowing. if i need to get brand new drives i will
4. do you know what the theoretical issues are when its not happy with the hardware? or a link to that information
5. since you mentioned it, initially perhaps no. im sitting on a 18TB ZF2? (dont think its 3) pool with 5TB used which sounds underused, however there are things i want to push towards in the coming months:
   1. have a build to create a linux system to use as a server using a workstation board in the making. yes not the most optimal use case or best hardware for, but as i layout in point 2, most optimal for my field of experience and situation. part of the plan for it is to do VM's, docker containers, keep hosting game servers for my friends (like the valheim server im currently for my friends on ym current "server" pc that is one of my old gaming PC boards). all of that i will need space for, and if i can stuff the main data or at least the backup data to the NAS, i can reduce the number of harddrives i have in that PC to only what it needs for boot and other local needs
   2. as i said in 1.3, i want to move the surveillance data created by Blue Iris from storing it locally to storing it in the NAS, or at least archiving some of it there. need to see what exactly i can do with Blue Iris, how responsive is it to that kind of change, etc.
   3. there is an additional plan (it is months from now, but still something i want to go for) for putting an ATS up connected to a solar system to somewhat reduce the power bill. some other things around the home need to be addressed first before they can be put up, but that is also in the works

 

[NugentS]

When you say storing VM's - can you provide more explanation please. If you are running VM's using the TN as (say) iSCSI storage then you will likley want IOPS. This will point you to using Mirrors rather than Zx.

 

[PacothePig]

storing VM's in the sense of storing the disks and config files for backups sake. i havent done enough research into booting the VM's straight off a NAS nor the implications of speed, latency, or anything else that comes with trying to do it in that form. if the build im proposing doesnt support running straight off the NAS, thats not a killer for me.

its why when i finally got my frakenstein together, i was pleased with the outcome. 18TB of storage with redundancy check and capability to exchange a bad HDD without losing the entire data (like the old RAID5 concept, or the devices i mentioned in the first post)

my worry is that, this frakenstein wont survive (at least not without major debugging) a major update to the TrueNAS OS in the future, and seeing as how its a frakenstein, getting support from the forums will be difficult. so before it gets to that point, id like to move my data to a more in line with forum members expectations

 

[NugentS]

Then stick with RAIDZn (2 or greater). If you want to run VM's from the NAS then put in a couple of SSD's which have a lot more IOPS anyway

 

[ChrisRJ]

@PacothePig , nice summary. Here are my comments on your points:

1. Use-case: Looks consistent to me and, as @NugentS wrote, fits a RAIDZ2 pool. Plex would increase the demand on the CPU considerably, depending on the exact things you want it to do (esp. scaling on demand).
2. Used enterprise gear: You can easily go for standard ATX board and "skip" things like rackmount, SAS backplanes etc. Supermicro is the typical recommendation here. They have a ton of standard motherboards that are in general available. About 2 years ago I could purchase a complete server with an 8-core Xeon (Sandybridge) and 128 GB ECC RAM (DDR3) for less than 300 Euros (used for VMs). And my NAS board+CPU+RAM (see signature for details) cost less than 200 Euros. I am not on a tight budget. But why spend 5+ times the money? Plus it's environmentally friendly to re-use stuff.
   Yes, you might need some time to look into this. But in my case (because it was the first such purchase as well), it was considerably less time than trying to find server-grade solution for Ryzen at the time. All in all: Don't be afraid
3. SMR can(!) look ok until one of the drives dies. But it can also happen that all of a sudden, due to increased workload, "timeout" handling comes into play (different between SMR and CMR) and things go south. In addition, you can almost certainly expect problems during re-silvering. Overall, I would make this a top priority! Check if you have SMR drives, and replace them asap, if needed. Otherwise you have a considerably increased risk of data loss.
4. Unsuitable hardware means the risk to loose data without warning. Risk does not mean that it will always happen. And some people have argued "but it has been working for me so far". I will not dispute such a statement. It does, however, show a lack of understanding for the concept of risk.
5. Makes sense to me.

 

[NugentS]

Lots of expansion on that board - although its all PCIe2 which will fit the older LSI cards for HDD's. You can keep some of the onboard ports for boot and any SSD's (for a high speed pool). Be careful of any PCIe boards you buy and make sure they support PCIe 2 or won't be crippled by PCIe2

The major issue is thats its gamer gear, and quite old to boot. The CPU will hurt if you use it to transcode in Plex but it should work. I would argue that its sufficiently old that it won't last you as long as you think before you want to replace it with something a bit better

As @ChrisRJ says - be very careful of SMR drives - they do not play well with ZFS

 

[PacothePig]

so i did do reading into SMR vs CMR and get the concept of why it would not play nice, and since i had an extra budget for the HDD's just in case, decided to grab some WD Red Plus CMR's for the new build. just felt like a good investment getting 4TB @ $80 (20$ a T).

if i get the Asrock board, i will use a basic 3.0 nvme ssd for the boot drive, then connect the red Plus's into the sata slots on the board.

as much as i see the point given by @ChrisRJ for the enterprise gear, i think ima lurk around here more and read up on best combinations before i try going down that path in a future build. ill stick to what i know until i become more knowledgable on the expanding uses of TrueNAS.

only one question i do have, if i did want to add some 1TB SSD's that i have around for a mirror or something, which HBA is recommended for the board i linked in the first post? cause i did list two pcie cards that i own currently, and wondering if those are just bad or okay-ish, and what would be a more average card for expanding the number of drives on a system

thank you for all the help o/

 

[NugentS]

LSI Boards are recomended here.
9200 range are fine for HDD's. Its my belief that the 9300 range are better for SSD's - but they need (want) PCIe 3x which you don't have. You can run a couple of SSD's off a 9200 but not lots.