RAM upgrade + expanding zpool

[nemisisak]

Hello.

So I am planning to upgrade my RAM and was just wondering will this effect the system in anyway (apart from increasing performance) e.g. hardware error/ reconfiguration OR will it be as easy as removing my old RAM and plugging in the new RAM and done. I assume it will be but I just wanted to check.

Additionally I want to expand my zpool(currently Z1 12 TB [4*3TB drives]) and I would like to expand to 18TB [6*3TB].
Currently I have the whole 9TB useable space as a single volume which holds my media content.
Once I install the two additional drives do I just add the disks to the volume and it will automatically reconfigure the pool?

On a side note, does aynone have experiance with "Toshiba DT01ACA300 3TB SATA III 3.5" Hard Drive. Im currently using Seagate barracuda drives but the Toshibas are down to £69 which is ridiculously good value per GB. However, in the back of my mind I always have the 'too good to be true' notion.

Thanks for your time.

 

[BigDave]

Hello.

So I am planning to upgrade my RAM and was just wondering will this effect the system in anyway (apart from increasing performance) e.g. hardware error/ reconfiguration OR will it be as easy as removing my old RAM and plugging in the new RAM and done. I assume it will be but I just wanted to check.

Additionally I want to expand my zpool(currently Z1 12 TB [4*3TB drives]) and I would like to expand to 18TB [6*3TB].
Currently I have the whole 9TB useable space as a single volume which holds my media content.
Once I install the two additional drives do I just add the disks to the volume and it will automatically reconfigure the pool?

On a side note, does aynone have experiance with "Toshiba DT01ACA300 3TB SATA III 3.5" Hard Drive. Im currently using Seagate barracuda drives but the Toshibas are down to £69 which is ridiculously good value per GB. However, in the back of my mind I always have the 'too good to be true' notion.

Thanks for your time.

Your RAM upgrade question can not be answered because we have no idea what hardware you have. If I could assume the new RAM
sticks are listed as QVL approved by the manufacturer of your motherboard AND you install them according to the manual's direction,
then yes, a RAM upgrade usually is not that complicated.

As far as expanding your pool, with this you need to be very careful as this procedure can be a bit tricky to pull off with optimum results.

Before adding drives to an existing pool;
BACK UP YOUR DATA
Understand that once done, it can not be undone, so don't do anything until you are DEAD sure.
Read cyberjock's vdev/zpool guide then come back with any more questions you may have.

 

[Robert Trevellyan]

Once I install the two additional drives do I just add the disks to the volume and it will automatically reconfigure the pool?

This will almost certainly not give you the result you want. Follow @BigDave 's advice about reading the vdev/zpool guide.

As a general suggestion, you should consider RAIDZ2 instead of RAIDZ1 with drives larger than 1TB, unless the data is easily replaceable.

 

[Darren Myers]

like everyone else, we're gonna need some hardware spec's, a quick glance at the toshiba 3Tb hdd though via newegg shows iffy reviews...but they say theyre rated for commercial computers...whatever that means exactly idk... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822149408

 

[nemisisak]

Thanks for the pointers.

CPU: Intel Pentium G3258 3.2GHz Dual-Core Processor
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-H97N-WIFI Mini ITX LGA1150 Motherboard
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Tactical 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (x4)
Power Supply: Corsair CX 430W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply

Thats my current hardware and I will expand the RAM to 16GB (2*8GB sticks) - branding currently unknown until I look and order some.

I am happy to keep Z1 because its the storage space im after and its mainly LAN media streaming thoughout the house so nothing intensive. I dont have access to enough storage space to back-up all my data, however I have backed up 3TB that I am able. All the data is replaceable but it will be hassle to replace so much obviously.

I have read Cyberjocks slideshows before and I have read through the documentation aswell. I have had a flick through both again and I understand what I want to do but I dont really understand how to do the physical process. I see that import disk is definately not what I want. After looking around a bit further it seems that I create another vdev and then stripe them together (somehow). Will this give me the desired effect ..idk?

My intention is to simply keep exactly the same setup but just increase the size of my pool by adding two more disks. I have heard this is easy with ZFS (one of the reasons its popular) but I just dont understand the how. If anyone knows of a guide that would be great.

I would rather not back-up all my data/ destroy the pool and start from scratch because of the shere hasssle involved trying to find back-up devices.

 

[Darren Myers]

Thanks for the pointers.

CPU: Intel Pentium G3258 3.2GHz Dual-Core Processor
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-H97N-WIFI Mini ITX LGA1150 Motherboard
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Tactical 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (x4)
Power Supply: Corsair CX 430W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply

Thats my current hardware and I will expand the RAM to 16GB (2*8GB sticks) - branding currently unknown until I look and order some.

I am happy to keep Z1 because its the storage space im after and its mainly LAN media streaming thoughout the house so nothing intensive. I dont have access to enough storage space to back-up all my data, however I have backed up 3TB that I am able. All the data is replaceable but it will be hassle to replace so much obviously.

I have read Cyberjocks slideshows before and I have read through the documentation aswell. I have had a flick through both again and I understand what I want to do but I dont really understand how to do the physical process. I see that import disk is definately not what I want. After looking around a bit further it seems that I create another vdev and then stripe them together (somehow). Will this give me the desired effect ..idk?

My intention is to simply keep exactly the same setup but just increase the size of my pool by adding two more disks. I have heard this is easy with ZFS (one of the reasons its popular) but I just dont understand the how. If anyone knows of a guide that would be great.

I would rather not back-up all my data/ destroy the pool and start from scratch because of the shere hasssle involved trying to find back-up devices.

@BigDave 's reply should give you some insight into expanding the pool, however its advisable to backup your data, or at least some incase something goes south

 

[nemisisak]

@BigDave 's reply should give you some insight into expanding the pool, however its advisable to backup your data, or at least some incase something goes south

Sorry, I hope im not being ignorant but BigDaves link is for cyberjocks vdev/zpool slideshow which basically explains terminology/RAIDZ/how ZFS works/ its limitations/ recomendations etc. I understand all of that (albeit from my build I know) but theres no reference of what to do using the FreeNAS gui to expand the pool with the new disks while maintaining my exisiting pools data?

 

[Jailer]

but theres no reference of what to do using the FreeNAS gui to expand the pool with the new disks while maintaining my exisiting pools data?

You can't without first destroying the pool then adding the new disks and re creating the pool in it's new configuration. That's why the other members keep telling you to back up your data before you begin.

 

[nemisisak]

Hmm ok. I tihnk I have found out how. However I will just check here to confirm this will fulfil what I am after

1)Install new disks to my server
2)In the free nas GUI select storage --> volume manager
3)under 'Volume to extend', select my chosen volume
4)My two new HDD should appear under 'Available disks' - select them
5)Extend volume
6)The volume extends. ZFS should spread the exisiting data across the new pool.
7)Congratulations! you now have 6TB of new available space.

Please let me know if I have got this correct/missed anything important, or if I am completly off track.

 

[Jailer]

It will work but you've just introduced a single point of failure into your system. If just one of the new drives fail your entire pool will be gone. But it's your data and if your good with that then go for it.

 

[nemisisak]

It will work but you've just introduced a single point of failure into your system. If just one of the new drives fail your entire pool will be gone. But it's your data and if your good with that then go for it.

How do you mean? Doing that, all six drives will no longer be a RAIDZ1 pool? Or do you mean during the process, if one drive fails I lose all my data? I am aware of the latter. I will ofcourse back as much of my data up as possible but I dont have the space to do it all.

However, as I stated before if this does not give me what I want i.e. 6*3TB drives RAIDZ1 with my exisitng data then I will obviously have to go down the root of backing up everything, destroying the 4disk volume to create a new one with 6 disks and then copy everything back.
This seems like a rather long winded process however and under larger circumstances say 100TB, quite trivial just to add in a couple of disks or more.

I would obviously like to do this with a resonable amount of safety but if this function is so precarious why is it present?

I understand having your data mirrored/backed-up is the safest option but my wallet saids no right now especially after RAM and HDDs which are sorely needed.

 

[Darren Myers]

you can backup your data to the cloud for 10$ a month with crashplan pro unlimited backup, i have 27Tb with them..... the best course of action IS to destroy your current pool and add the drives all at one time, otherwise if you strip them and 1 disk dies in either pool you loose both. We can only advise so much, and do so much. We're not you its always your choice since its your data, we're just giving the best possible feedback we can to help you and keep your data safe, even if you say you can rebuild it all.....i dont think anyone wants to ever have to see someone do that

 

[JDCynical]

How do you mean? Doing that, all six drives will no longer be a RAIDZ1 pool? Or do you mean during the process, if one drive fails I lose all my data? I am aware of the latter. I will ofcourse back as much of my data up as possible but I dont have the space to do it all.

Ok, no offense intended, but it seems that you didn't really read the slideshow, or still don't quite have your head wrapped around it, which is OK as the concepts are different from what most people are used to when dealing with RAID cards (it took me a bit of time to grok it myself). Lemme see if I can clarify, and I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm off. :)

You stated that:

my zpool(currently Z1 12 TB [4*3TB drives]) and I would like to expand to 18TB [6*3TB].

A vdev is a collection of drives in a given configuration (RAIDZ1, Z2, mirror, etc), AKA 'virtual devices'.
A zpool is a collection of vdevs that is presented as usable space, AKA ZFS volume.
The 'Volume to extend' command in the GUI, per the users guide, is used to add 'disks' to an existing volume, yes, but it operates on a vdev level, not individual disk.

If I'm reading this right, you have a single vdev of 4TBx3 in your zpool. If you just 'add two new drives' and do not turn them into a new redundant vdev (say, a mirror), you are removing the redundancy for your pool, a failure of one of those two drives will destroy your pool as you just effectively turned your RAIDZ1 into the rough equivlant of a RAID0.

The only way to make your current vdev contain more drives is to destroy and recreate it. The users guide section I linked to says it as well:

Once a vdev is created, you can not add more drives to that vdev

 

[nemisisak]

you can backup your data to the cloud for 10$ a month with crashplan pro unlimited backup, i have 27Tb with them..... the best course of action IS to destroy your current pool and add the drives all at one time, otherwise if you strip them and 1 disk dies in either pool you loose both. We can only advise so much, and do so much. We're not you its always your choice since its your data, we're just giving the best possible feedback we can to help you and keep your data safe, even if you say you can rebuild it all.....i dont think anyone wants to ever have to see someone do that

Thanks Darren, thats basically what I was after. Information is broken and spread so its hard to understand the puzzle.

Crashplan sounds really good. I live in he UK though and we have asymmetric internet. I can get 0.5MB upload speeds maximum. So thats roughly 3281 Hours to upload 5TB to the cloud at my maximum upload speed... :')

I will ask my friends for external HDD etc. to cover the final 2TB I need. Its not too much so hopefully wont be to much of a problem. With this upgrade I should have plenty of space to keep me going and I can work on a new server thats properly built and not a makeshift desktop :)

 

[nemisisak]

Ok, no offense intended, but it seems that you didn't really read the slideshow, or still don't quite have your head wrapped around it. Lemme see if I can clarify, and I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm off. :)

You stated that:

A vdev is a collection of drives in a given configuration (RAIDZ1, Z2, mirror, etc), AKA 'virtual devices'.
A zpool is a collection of vdevs that is presented as usable space, AKA ZFS volume.
The 'Volume to extend' command in the GUI, per the users guide, is used to add 'disks' to an existing volume, yes, but it operates on a vdev level, not individual disk.

If I'm reading this right, you have a single vdev of 4TBx3 in your zpool. If you just 'add two new drives' and do not turn them into a new redundant vdev (say, a mirror), you are removing the redundancy for your pool, a failure of one of those two drives will destroy your pool.

The only way to make your current vdev contain more drives is to destroy and recreate it. The users guide section I linked to says it as well:

Thanks Justin. I get that now. I was trying to find the function in the user guide to explain what it actually does but I couldnt see it. Thanks for the link.

 

[Robert Trevellyan]

Just for completeness ... there's one way you can add 2 drives to an existing pool and retain some redundancy, which is to add them as a 2-drive mirror vdev. The GUI probably won't let you do this without switching to manual mode, because it's not a very good layout, but it is better than adding them as a stripe.