RAID 100?

Status
Not open for further replies.

JD.Langton

Cadet
Joined
Jan 6, 2018
Messages
4
I hope this is the right sub-forum. Forgive me if its not.. I havn't been able to find an answer anywhere yet.
I set up small-medium sized businesses with file servers up to 70TB but I've recently gotten the opportunity to offer 1PB servers to a larger client.
Ive always used RAID 0,1 and subsequently 10, with FreeNAS but this client requires RAID 100.

First question is - Can FreeNAS create 4 RAID 10 arrays and then a RAID 0 array from them to make RAID 100?
Second question is - Can FreeNAS even be installed on the type of supermicro unit that is required for this level of storage?

Here's the chasis I need to use
https://www.supermicro.com/products/chassis/4U/847/SC847DE1C-R2K04JBOD

I'll be using 80 WD 12TB SATA drives. I'd like to create 4 RAID 10 arrays that are 20TB each and then RAID 100 all 4 of them together.
Is this possible with FreeNAS?

Really looking for immediate answers. This could be a very big break in my work and I need to know whether or not I need to find a different solution.
(This is file server use only - Simply mapping drives to local storage)

Any information is much appreciated!
Thanks!
 
Last edited:

Ericloewe

Server Wrangler
Moderator
Joined
Feb 15, 2014
Messages
20,176
First question is - Can FreeNAS create 4 RAID 10 arrays and then a RAID 0 array from them to make RAID 100?
No. Why on Earth would you want to do that?

You can have as many vdevs as you want, each with as many mirrors as you want. So, your 80 disks could be distributed into 40 mirror vdevs for a total (very raw) 480 "TB" (436 TB) of storage. Not counting possible overhead, minimum free space, etc.

(This is file server use only - Simply mapping drives to local storage)
Sounds like RAIDZ2 would make more sense. Say, 10 8-disk RAIDZ2 vdevs for 720 "TB" (654 TB) of storage, with significantly higher reliability. At the cost of some IOPS (not a big deal for most file sharing scenarios).

Can FreeNAS even be installed on the type of supermicro unit that is required for this level of storage?
Of course.

Also, how is this a 1 PB server?
 

danb35

Hall of Famer
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
15,466
Ive always used RAID 0,1 and subsequently 10, with FreeNAS but this client requires RAID 100.
Has the client stated a requirement for "RAID 100", or have you inferred it from the client's needs? And in either case, why do you/they believe such a configuration is necessary?
Also, how is this a 1 PB server?
Well, 80 x 12 TB is 960 TB, which is awfully close, even if half of it wouldn't be usable space.
 

danb35

Hall of Famer
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
15,466
Second question is - Can FreeNAS even be installed on the type of supermicro unit that is required for this level of storage?
No, it can't. The system you posted isn't a computer; it's simply a drive tray. You'd need a separate computer to run it.
 

Ericloewe

Server Wrangler
Moderator
Joined
Feb 15, 2014
Messages
20,176
Oh yeah, that one is just a JBOD. No big deal, it just needs the server to go along with it.
 

JD.Langton

Cadet
Joined
Jan 6, 2018
Messages
4
My client spefically requested RAID 100. Ive never used RAID-Z before. Im unfamiliar with the speed. How does it compare to RAID 100?

Ive never dealt with anything this big before. Is it possible he prefers RAID 100 because it comes out as 1 single massive volume compared to 10 smaller ones with something like RAIDZ2?
 

Zredwire

Explorer
Joined
Nov 7, 2017
Messages
85
The only time I have heard of RAID 100 was when someone needed a very large number of disk (like in your example). With those numbers the hardware RAID controllers can limit the number of physical disks allowed in each standard array. So you set up hardware RAID 10 on multiple controllers and then use a software stripe across all of them. This allows large number of disk and can help throughput by using several hardware RAID controllers at once.
I am new to Freenas but I know Freenas can also use multiple controllers and according to some of the comments above, does not seem to be bound by a maximum number of drives.

Just as an aide you could do RAID 100 with Freenas but I would strongly suggest you do not. It would not give any advantage but would have some serious drawbacks. Using hardware RAID controllers with Freenas is not optimal!
 
Last edited:

Chris Moore

Hall of Famer
Joined
May 2, 2015
Messages
10,080
My client spefically requested RAID 100. Ive never used RAID-Z before. Im unfamiliar with the speed. How does it compare to RAID 100?

Ive never dealt with anything this big before. Is it possible he prefers RAID 100 because it comes out as 1 single massive volume compared to 10 smaller ones with something like RAIDZ2?
You need to read the primer on ZFS because the things you are saying are only applicable to hardware RAID and do not make any sense in ZFS.
https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/zfs-primer.38927/#post-238057
 

garm

Wizard
Joined
Aug 19, 2017
Messages
1,555
RAID 100 is a workaround to achive what ZFS calls mirror vdevs. Just pair them together two and two, lather, rinse, repeat until you consume all 60 drives and then prepare a short one slide presentation on why ZFS is far superior to a hacked nested RAID schema..
 

Mirfster

Doesn't know what he's talking about
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Messages
3,215
Really looking for immediate answers. This could be a very big break in my work and I need to know whether or not I need to find a different solution.
(This is file server use only - Simply mapping drives to local storage)
My client spefically requested RAID 100. Ive never used RAID-Z before. Im unfamiliar with the speed. How does it compare to RAID 100?
No knocking you or your abilities, but while the opportunity is more than likely a really good one for you; would you think it is in both yours and their best interest to go charging down this path?

I mean, you are talking about a company entrusting you to design, implement, maintain and troubleshoot a pretty large amount of storage here. FreeNAS is awesome, but IMHO simply coming from a past experience of Hardware RAID is by no means going to make you an expert with ZFS.

Sorry if I sound rude, it is not my intent.
 

JD.Langton

Cadet
Joined
Jan 6, 2018
Messages
4
Thanks, its actually just design and implement. Their msp takes over once its installed. I definitely wouldnt take it on if i had to maintain and troubleshoot.

Im aware that this is a big step for me. I usually set up storage for offices with 10-20 people. But its a multi-million dollar initial job. Im currently studying up on ZFS and RAIDZ as much as i can to figure out the best way to approach this guy. Cuz it sounds like ill be able to offer him something better than the RAID100 he asked for. He seems kind of old school. Its possible hes never heard of ZFS. Which, admittedly, is about where i was at..
 

Ericloewe

Server Wrangler
Moderator
Joined
Feb 15, 2014
Messages
20,176

Chris Moore

Hall of Famer
Joined
May 2, 2015
Messages
10,080
I'll be using 80 WD 12TB SATA drives. I'd like to create 4 RAID 10 arrays that are 20TB each and then RAID 100 all 4 of them together.
Is this possible with FreeNAS?
PS. I have a server at work with 128 drives all connected to one management server by SAS cabling. My disk shelves are only 24 drives each, but the principle is the same. All of those drives are presented as a single volume and shared to the network as one massive share. Effectively, the limit of how many drives you can use in a single zpool is based on how many drives you can physically connect to the server. I have a different server where there are two SAS controllers already in it and the system board still has room for two more SAS controllers and each controller (if I recall correctly) can connect to 256 drives (or some very large number like that) and all of those drives could be added to a single zpool. ZFS is not the limiting factor, the hardware is. It was originally designed by Sun Microsystems (now Sun/Oracle) to be the last file system that would ever be needed.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top