Purchasing drives in batches?

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schofieldrj

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I've had a little look around and not found any clear answer about this. Is it generally considered a good idea to purchase your drives in groups from different sellers?

I plan on buying 8x4tb drives to run in raidz2, should I look to buy 4 drives from one seller and then the other 4 from another seller?
 

jgreco

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Not only that, but buying different kinds of drives. I've written about heterogeneous pools here in the past, probably findable under that keyword.
 

schofieldrj

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I think I found the post you were referring to. I've gone ahead and taken your advice, bought from two different stores and got drives from two different companies. I don't think I need any more variation for only 8 drives?
 

jgreco

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I've written about it a number of times, but the basic idea is that in the old days, we used to have things like a hardware "spindle sync" signal on SCSI, plus the shared bus aspect of SCSI, so the smart money was to buy a homogeneous array from a single vendor using a specific firmware that was tested to work with your RAID controller.

This taught an entire generation of storage admins that they "had to buy matched drives" and array manufacturers got very comfortable selling matched drives because they would get phenomenal discounts from the drive manufacturers. Of course, it seems nice in a number of ways to have a bunch of drives, all the same type, it pleases the OCD impulse in some IT types.

However, these days, there's no spindle sync signal, there's no shared bus, and the channel from a controller to a device is effectively a dedicated channel. There are firmware issues to be considered, of course, but for ZFS, it is all software, and most drives can store blocks and retrieve blocks without too many things going wrong along the way.

The big danger in a homogeneous array is that you might suffer some rapid-fire failures that exceed your redundancy. This can and does happen to people, but it's pretty unusual. I had one client who had a bunch of the (terrible, awful) Seagate 1.5TB drives and they had built a large array out of RAIDZ1 for backups, and it got to the point where they were praying resilver operations would finish on one drive before the next failed.

Perhaps a slightly more practical example might be SSD. Buying two of the same kind of SSD might result in very similar wearout, but if you were to maybe pair something like an Intel 535 (Sandforce/Intel) with a Samsung 850 EVO (Samsung MGX/Samsung 3D V-NAND) you have two very good SSD's with totally different storage technologies backing them. They are exceedingly unlikely to both exhibit failure-level wearout around the same time.
 

m0nkey_

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I bought four drives from the same batch two years ago running 24/7. All of which are running perfectly today. If you're concerned, sure go ahead and buy drives from different locations, but from my experience it's been fine with modern drives.
 

jgreco

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Yeah, it's fine, right up to the point where you "luck out" and get a drive like the ST3000DM001, which is so fricking awful that Seagate's being sued over them.

Sorry, but your four drive experience is pretty meaningless.

It's like saying "I never get into a car accident". Sure. Most people don't get into car accidents most of the time. That doesn't make it a good idea not to wear your seat belt, or not to get insurance. The seat belt and insurance are cheap ways to minimize the hazards on the off chance that you DO run into the Ford Pinto of hard drives.
 

jgreco

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Or, just don't buy Seagate :)

We've already discussed that this week; it's pure bullshit. Seagate was pumping out crap-grade drives three years ago. Western Digital was pumping out crap-grade drives four years ago. HGST was pumping out crap-grade drives six years ago. Since the two big drive manufacturers are now Seagate and Western Digital, your choices are between a manufacturer that has pumped out crap-grade drives and another manufacturer that has pumped out crap-grade drives.

I'll absolutely be happy to give Seagate a special award for raising the bar with their ST3000DM001 entry:

flaming_poo_round_metal_christmas_ornament-rc04af9b44276414b8b5555a329d790dc_x7s2s_8byvr_324.jpg


That is certainly a contender to be in the list of top 10 worst drives anyone's ever inflicted on the public.

But do remember that we have such stellar entries as the IBM 75GXP where the heads would actually strip the magnetic media off the glass substrate.

IBM75GXP_Failed_Disks.png


and of course that became HGST, which is now Western Digital. *shrug*

For whatever it is worth, drive quality seems to have improved dramatically in the past few years. We purchased some 6TB ST6000DX000's about a year and a half ago and they've been perfect.
 

Mirfster

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Let me start by saying "To each their own"... Now that should shield me sufficiently...

I buy mine in bulk and used (for my personal use only). In the past; I have limited myself to a single manufacturer.
My reasoning:
  1. I keep extra stock in the event of needing a fast replacement (cold spares)
  2. I like the to maintain the ability the ability to swap daughter boards
    • Not like this has happened in a very long time; but man was it a pain to find the correct ones in the distant past
    • More than likely not really needed anymore; but that is just me
  3. The benefit of getting bulk discounts; I'm cheap...
  4. Ease of updating firmware/tracking issues by having a "limited" make/model
    • Think of it along the same lines as supporting an enterprise... Do you want to support a small set of computers or a total mix-mosh
  5. Since I buy used and the drives do come with a 1 year warranty, it makes keeping track a bit easier
  6. Cuz I am old and ornery
As of right now, my count is ~45 of the same drives. While not a large data-point, I have only had one failure (which was DOA) in several years. With moving into 2.5" drives I am more limited on the choices and may have to change; but I am in no hurry so time will tell.

Feel free to flame me; I got my asbestos suit on. :P
 

jgreco

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1) is basically irrelevant. You can stock spares easily enough. They don't need to be the same manufacturer. They don't even really need to be the same size, as long as the replacement is same-or-larger.

2) Probably also irrelevant. The reason people usually swap controller boards is to recover data off the drives. ZFS handles this through redundancy.

3) Okay, but bulk discounts are available whether you buy fifty of one kind or twenty five of two kinds. Admittedly you may get a slightly better deal on the larger single buy.

4) Yes, that's nice.

5) Yes, also nice.

6) Also fine.

The thing is, for the most part, the extra paranoia involved in buying some sort of non-homogeneous pool, whether just ensuring different batches or actually going full hetero, at least nine times out of ten, it isn't going to matter. At *LEAST* nine times out of ten. However, every once in awhile, you run across the counterexample:

https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/st4000dx002.42219/

It's kinda like the reason we run RAIDZ3 here. On a 12 drive system, we could run RAIDZ1 on 4TB drives and have 44TB of space, or run RAIDZ2 and have 40TB of space. But we run RAIDZ3 on 11 disks with a warm spare, which reduces us to 32TB of space. Why? Because I've *seen* stupid things happen too many times over the decades.

I believe that fate is more likely to come a'knockin' if you haven't made preparations.
 
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