Motherboard advice for new home build

[the_jest]

I'm planning a new home server, running SCALE, and am finding myself very confused about the motherboard possibilities.

This box will be replacing an existing TrueNAS Core server, and will be used mainly for typical media storage for a small household, with Plex, a number of jails (to be converted to SCALE apps), and a few VMs. I currently have six spinners (for data) and two SSDs (for jails/VMs), which use all the SATA channels on my existing mobo (the boot drives are USB sticks, but I'll be moving away from this). I'm hoping to put this in a Micro-ATX case, and I'd like the mobo to support 10g networking (which I do not have set up in my home, yet). It won't in general require much CPU power, but for Plex transcoding needs (after discussing it on the Plex forums), I'd like to get something with a fairly recent iGPU, which would obviate the need for a separate GPU. Somewhat arbitrarily, I have chosen the Intel i5-13400 CPU (Raptor Lake), which is overkill, but it's got the Intel UHD Graphics 730 iGPU (which seems to be widely liked) and low base power.

I've never been able to understand SuperMicro motherboards; I can't figure out what they make in an mATX that would support this chip. Everything they list shows compatibility for several-generation-old versions, not Raptor Lake, and for various Xeon chips, which I haven't been looking at. I do see that ASRock Rack has the W680D4U-2L2T/G5, which meets all of the requirements for this (and more; there are 2 10g _and_ 2 1g network ports). What should I be looking at?

Also (and this may be a separate question that I should split out): I'm concerned about the number-of-drives issue. I'd originally hoped to use 2 NVMe drives in a mirror for the VM/app pool, but to do this on the mobo would require _three_ M2 slots (one for the boot drive), which doesn't appear to be possible. If it's not on the mobo, then what? I literally don't know how I'd mount such drives in the case. And I assume I'd use an NVMe-to-SATA adaptor of some kind, but then this setup would again use all eight SATA channels on the (ASRock, at least) mobo, leaving me no room for growth or for other possible setups.

Thanks for all suggestions/insight.

 

[Arwen]

I can't answer most of your questions, but this is easy;

More NVMe drives can be supported by a PCIe card adapter. Their are some options;

• Ones that require PCIe slot bifurcation into x4 groups. Like a x8 PCIe slot into 2, x4 M.2 NVMe slots.
• Ones that don't require PCIe slot bifurcation. These have built in PCIe switches and cost more. But, can work better in some use cases, like a x8 PCIe slot and still support 4, x4 M.2 NVMe drive slots. Can't get full speed for each at the same time, yet, that may not be the point.

Their are even some PCIe adapter boards with PCIe switches for more than 4 M.2 NVMe drive slots. More cost, but, can meet certain needs.

 

[Etorix]

This box will be replacing an existing TrueNAS Core server,

Why not keep your existing hardware?

Somewhat arbitrarily, I have chosen the Intel i5-13400 CPU (Raptor Lake), which is overkill, but it's got the Intel UHD Graphics 730 iGPU (which seems to be widely liked) and low base power.

It's also a bit too new for our liking (scheduling support…), and Alder/Raptor Lake are not really meant for servers. W680 is meant for "entry-level workstations"—which brings us to the next issue.

I've never been able to understand SuperMicro motherboards; I can't figure out what they make in an mATX that would support this chip.

Once you get a grasp on their naming conventions, you can actually make up the name for the motherboard you want.
That would be X13 (generation) S (single socket) A(lder Lake) H/M/L -F (BMC) or -TF (with onboard 10 GbE). Which does not exist, because Supermicro does not see these CPUs as servers. There is a X13SAE-F, which is a workstation (full ATX, and with a legacy PCI slot for industrial uses).
In the Supermicro range, the best match for your requirements would be a X12STH-F (or -LN4F, but there's no version with 10 GbE), for Xeon E-2300 (Tiger Lake, the mobile variant of desktop Rocket Lake, LGA1200). Or waiting for Xeon E-2400 and their motherboards

I do see that ASRock Rack has the W680D4U-2L2T/G5, which meets all of the requirements for this (and more; there are 2 10g _and_ 2 1g network ports). What should I be looking at?

Go for it if you made your choice for LGA1700. TrueNAS runs on non-Supermicro hardware!

I literally don't know how I'd mount such drives in the case.

Something like this $2 adapter in the PCIe x4 or x1 slot:

NVMe M.2 NGFF SSD to PCI-E PCI express 3.0 16x x4 adapter riser card conv.b$ | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for NVMe M.2 NGFF SSD to PCI-E PCI express 3.0 16x x4 adapter riser card conv.b$ at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

 

[the_jest]

Why not keep your existing hardware?

My current system is over 6 years old, and while it's still functioning fine, I'm concerned that it's reaching the point where I'll need to worry about it all the time. Also, I want to upgrade enough of it that it seems silly to try to do this while keeping a few things the same. Finally, my current backup scheme is to rsync everything to USB drives attached to a computer elsewhere on the network, so my goal now is to build the new machine and convert the existing one into a proper backup server (in which case, if something _does_ go wrong, it won't be an urgent deal to get things back up).

It's also a bit too new for our liking (scheduling support…), and Alder/Raptor Lake are not really meant for servers. W680 is meant for "entry-level workstations"—which brings us to the next issue.


Once you get a grasp on their naming conventions, you can actually make up the name for the motherboard you want.
That would be X13 (generation) S (single socket) A(lder Lake) H/M/L -F (BMC) or -TF (with onboard 10 GbE). Which does not exist, because Supermicro does not see these CPUs as servers. There is a X13SAE-F, which is a workstation (full ATX, and with a legacy PCI slot for industrial uses).
In the Supermicro range, the best match for your requirements would be a X12STH-F (or -LN4F, but there's no version with 10 GbE), for Xeon E-2300 (Tiger Lake, the mobile variant of desktop Rocket Lake, LGA1200). Or waiting for Xeon E-2400 and their motherboards

Huh. Thanks for the explanation of the naming! FWIW, ASRock lists the W680 on the "Server Motherboards" rather than "Workstation Motherboards" tab, so I figured it fit the bill. (Also, FWIW, my current mobo is an ASRock Rack too, though explicitly a workstation board; it doesn't have IPMI, for example, which the W680 does. In general I've been happy with it, though.)

I'll look further at Supermicro options. As I indicated above, I have no special attachment to the CPU I selected; I wanted a recent iGPU and otherwise I don't care much. When I was trying to look at Xeon processors, it seemed like they all were very expensive and drew too much power. But if I can find a slightly older CPU that would fit my needs and work better with a Supermicro board, I'm game to try.

I'd rather not get a full ATX case; I live in a NYC apartment, and whatever I get, I'll be adding it to the existing machine (Silverstone DS380, ITX), and I'd prefer to keep things smaller.

Something like this $2 adapter in the PCIe x4 or x1 slot:

NVMe M.2 NGFF SSD to PCI-E PCI express 3.0 16x x4 adapter riser card conv.b$ | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for NVMe M.2 NGFF SSD to PCI-E PCI express 3.0 16x x4 adapter riser card conv.b$ at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Thanks for this (and to Arwen for similar suggestions)! I didn't realize that these adapters were so simple and cheap; I was imagining needing something much more complicated and expensive.

Will continue to research.

 

[Etorix]

Huh. Thanks for the explanation of the naming! FWIW, ASRock lists the W680 on the "Server Motherboards" rather than "Workstation Motherboards" tab, so I figured it fit the bill.

That's because it actually is a server motherboard build around a workstation CPU. AsRockRack did a lot of these with Ryzen server boards (X470D4U, X570D4U, B550D4U, B650D4U). Supermicro did it with the X11SRL-F and X11SRM server boards for workstation W-2000 CPUs.

When I was trying to look at Xeon processors, it seemed like they all were very expensive and drew too much power.

Expensive is the not-so-hidden point of the Xeon brand.
Xeon E are merely ECC-enabled versions of the consumer Core CPUs, so their power draw is not worse than that of desktop CPUs—and better in the specific case of the Xeon E-2300 because they derive from laptop CPUs and draw less their Core 11000/Xeon W-1300 counterparts.

Keep up with the good research!

 

[the_jest]

Expensive is the not-so-hidden point of the Xeon brand.
Xeon E are merely ECC-enabled versions of the consumer Core CPUs, so their power draw is not worse than that of desktop CPUs—and better in the specific case of the Xeon E-2300 because they derive from laptop CPUs and draw less their Core 11000/Xeon W-1300 counterparts.

Keep up with the good research!

Research isn't going great, I have to say!

It seems like the Xeon E-2300 series would in fact work well for me, and is not unreasonably priced. But as I think you pointed out, there are no Supermicro mATX boards for it that have 10GbE internet. (Otherwise, they look pretty good! Many of them even have 4 NVMe slots built-in, which would be really convenient!) The Supermicro mATX boards that _do_ have 10GbE are only for the LGA-4189 chipset. Intel makes it incredibly difficult to even find what CPUs these are, but it seems that the ones that do are higher power, and in any event these mobos are just fantastically expensive.

It appears to me that going with that ASRock Rack mobo with some new gaming CPU would be the best bet for my purposes; it does pretty much what I want and the prices aren't too crazy. (I will say that the mobo, while very much less expensive than Supermicro, is still like twice the cost of a "workstation" board, but I guess that's something I have to do.)

If I'm misunderstanding, or missing something, I'm happy to be set straight, but meanwhile, I'll keep my focus in this direction.

Thanks again for your advice.

 

[Constantin]

If you can handle a larger motherboard, then consider this one based on the D1508 CPU - it’s amazing for a low power, SOHO file-oriented application. Plenty of expansion space, slots, SATADOMs, etc. All that for $551 (plus memory).

 

[the_jest]

If you can handle a larger motherboard, then consider this one based on the D1508 CPU - it’s amazing for a low power, SOHO file-oriented application. Plenty of expansion space, slots, SATADOMs, etc. All that for $551 (plus memory).

Right, but what it doesn't have is the one thing I very much need, which is an iGPU for transcoding. So to go this route, I'd need to get a dedicated GPU as well.

 

[Constantin]

Missed that, apologies! I don’t want my server to transcode - I prefer the endpoints to do that kind of lifting.

 

[Etorix]

It seems like the Xeon E-2300 series would in fact work well for me, and is not unreasonably priced. But as I think you pointed out, there are no Supermicro mATX boards for it that have 10GbE internet. (Otherwise, they look pretty good! Many of them even have 4 NVMe slots built-in, which would be really convenient!)

Putting a NIC in a PCIe slot has its benefits. Chelsio T520 or Solarflare SFP+ NICs can be found for $50, refurbished.

The Supermicro mATX boards that _do_ have 10GbE are only for the LGA-4189 chipset. Intel makes it incredibly difficult to even find what CPUs these are, but it seems that the ones that do are higher power, and in any event these mobos are just fantastically expensive.

LGA4189 is third generation Xeon Scalable, so, yes, rather overkill for a home NAS.

But do not confuse "TDP" for actual power draw in use.