iocage support / docker

[Wim Mistiaen]

So, I'm on 11.1-U1, but all my current jails are warden jails. My plan was to wait it our for a bit, and when the dust settles, migrate to iocage. (I expected this to be at around 11.2-11.3. My jails are all still working, and I don't require the latest upgrades.) However, I am somewhat in need of a new jail. So I've got some questions before taking action:

1. If I leave my old warden jails like they are and create the new jail with iocage in parallel, will they all keep working (I asked elsewhere on this forum but the answer was expect the worst, hope for the best.)?
2. Do iocage and warden jails use the same dataset?
3. Will newer versions of freenas still recognize my iocage jail(s) I were to create now?
4. And if I were to create an iocage jail, should I best do it through the command line or the beta-GUI?
5. If I leave the warden jails as they are for now, will the first release in which warden gets dropped still be able to recognize them? (for migrating purposes. I'm aware there's some sort of script in the works, but I'm rather safe than sorry.)

And then, as bonus question:

1. Is the docker support as is in 11.1-U1 final or will there be improvements in later versions making any docker containers/ROS I make now, obsolete down the line? (what I'm really asking is whether I should be putting off creating docker containers/ROS for now, untill a later release)

Thanks in advance!

 

[nojohnny101]

1. If I leave my old warden jails like they are and create the new jail with iocage in parallel, will they all keep working (I asked elsewhere on this forum but the answer was expect the worst, hope for the best.)?

Yes.

2. Do iocage and warden jails use the same dataset?

You mean have them both mapped to access the same dataset? I'm not 100% sure about that but that sounds inadvisable. Can you explain why you feel like you need to do that?

3. Will newer versions of freenas still recognize my iocage jail(s) I were to create now?

I'm not a member of XiSystems development team but I don't see why not.

4. And if I were to create an iocage jail, should I best do it through the command line or the beta-GUI?

You should always do as much as you can through the GUI but there are some things in the current beta GUI (which is the only UI place to create iocage jails) that you can't do, namely mount storage and setup networking reliably. From my own experience and from others' experiences, this is much more reliably performed in the CLI right now.

5. If I leave the warden jails as they are for now, will the first release in which warden gets dropped still be able to recognize them? (for migrating purposes. I'm aware there's some sort of script in the works, but I'm rather safe than sorry.)

That is a good question that I don't have an answer to. Possibly @Ericloewe could find out.

1. Is the docker support as is in 11.1-U1 final or will there be improvements in later versions making any docker containers/ROS I make now, obsolete down the line? (what I'm really asking is whether I should be putting off creating docker containers/ROS for now, untill a later release)

Another good question that I don't know the answer to and haven't seen talked about much.

 

[KrisBee]

1. Is the docker support as is in 11.1-U1 final or will there be improvements in later versions making any docker containers/ROS I make now, obsolete down the line? (what I'm really asking is whether I should be putting off creating docker containers/ROS for now, untill a later release)

You need to be a mind reader to know how docker support might evolve in future versions of FreeNAS. For example, there are no hints at https://redmine.ixsystems.com for 11.2 apart from porting existing support to the new GUI. Try finding a public statement about any plans.

FreeNAS seem to have put all their eggs in the Rancher basket and you can read my comment here:
https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/where-is-freenas-going-with-docker-in-2018.60325/
It didn’t generate much of a response. Version2 of Rancher is not far off, so their may be newer versions of the base rancheros for FreeNAS to implement, but as long as rancher is under development there’s no reason to suppose FreeNAS will change course.

But the docker world is not static and if you want to use docker containers right now you can choose from various alternative options that have existed ever since iohyve appeared in FreeNAS 9.10. As they all fundamentally depend on running docker in a Linux VM using the in-built bhyve hypervisor this is not going to be like the changes to running jails under warden or iocage, as this aspect of running docker on FreeNAS is static.

The choices become:

1. which Linux base to use: for example, Debian, CentOS or the specialist rancheros

and

2. what docker tools to use on the chosen base: for example, docker-compose plus support for multiple inter-related containers, and user interfaces to organise and control containers such as portainer or the more advanced RancherUI(server/agent and more).

I can find no indication that the Plan 9 Filesystem Protocol (P9) used in Corral is likely to be revived and working in the near future, so it should also be remembered that docker containers can only access your zpool data via the mechanism of NFS of CIFS shares. How you achieve this and plan zpool datasets, users and groups needs some careful thought, and whether performance is likely to be good enough means deciding if a docker container is preferable to a jail.

 

[Wim Mistiaen]

Thanks for your reply!

You mean have them both mapped to access the same dataset? I'm not 100% sure about that but that sounds inadvisable. Can you explain why you feel like you need to do that?

To make sure we are talking about the same thing, I am talking about the dataset the jails themselves are stored on, not the datasets they might need access to for whatever reason. Right now, there's 1 location in the freenas gui where you can specify the "jail dataset" iirc (can't access my server right now), and that's it. so I was wondering whether the iocage and warden jails use this very same dataset, and again whether it's advisable to do so.

 

[Ericloewe]

That is a good question that I don't have an answer to. Possibly @Ericloewe could find out.

There will be a migration script to move Warden jails to iocage.

You will also not want to rely on it, if you have a choice. If you're redoing your jails, iocage is the way to go, unless there is something that prevents you from doing so.

 

[Wim Mistiaen]

If you're redoing your jails, iocage is the way to go, unless there is something that prevents you from doing so.

and there is no reason to put off the migration until a later release? (ever since win98, i'm very wary of automated upgrades. I'd rather go through the hassle to do it all manually anew than rely on an all-encompassing script. No offense to the devs! I think it's obvious their SW is rock solid.)

 

[nojohnny101]

To make sure we are talking about the same thing, I am talking about the dataset the jails themselves are stored on, not the datasets they might need access to for whatever reason. Right now, there's 1 location in the freenas gui where you can specify the "jail dataset" iirc (can't access my server right now), and that's it. so I was wondering whether the iocage and warden jails use this very same dataset, and again whether it's advisable to do so.

Ah I see what you mean. No, not a problem. I currently have iocage and warden jails residing on the same dataset.

 

[LIGISTX]

Don’t mean to hijack, but I am in a peculiar situation and wonder what would be best.

I set up my freenas box a few months back and somehow set up my vdev with the wrong RAID level. Anyways.... within the next week I am going to tear down and start over. I have snapshot replications on a backup server with my VM’s, jails, and critical data. Question is, what to do about iocage vs warden. I had no idea this change was coming, but maybe it plays well into my current situation.

Forgive my naivety as I am still not up on a lot of this and honestly don’t fundamentally know the difference between iocage and warden, but seeing as this change is coming would it make most sense to not even copy my jails from my backup to my production box once I redo it with the proper RAID setup, and just start my jails from scratch?

The only real “issue” I have with that is my plex jail which has all of my watched vs unwatched info for different users ect, would be a shame to lose that info. Maybe that is a plex specific database file I can copy from one jail to the other? This is likely a plex specific issue someone with plex knowledge can help me with, but as far as the jail itself goes, best to set up my 3 jails from scratch as 11.1 will default to iocage? Currently my production box is 11.0, but when I redo it it will be a fresh 11.1 instal.


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[Ericloewe]

and there is no reason to put off the migration until a later release?

There might be, iocage is still seeing important development, as is the GUI. My suggestion is that you try it out and see if it works for you. If not, file a bug report so that your case gets looked at.

Forgive my naivety as I am still not up on a lot of this and honestly don’t fundamentally know the difference between iocage and warden, but seeing as this change is coming would it make most sense to not even copy my jails from my backup to my production box once I redo it with the proper RAID setup, and just start my jails from scratch?

You don't have to nuke your old jails before the new ones are working. That's another advantage of not leaving things for the last minute. ;)

Maybe that is a plex specific database file I can copy from one jail to the other? This is likely a plex specific issue someone with plex knowledge can help me with

I'm sure there is. The plugins/jails section of the forum is bound to address this question. If not, there are always plex-centric resources on the internet.

 

[LIGISTX]

You don't have to nuke your old jails before the new ones are working. That's another advantage of not leaving things for the last minute. [emoji6]

Yea, I agree. They will remain on my backup box regardless so I would be able to recover them into production if needed. But your right, they take up basically no space in the scheme of things, I could easily move then to the production box and have them both running.

I'm sure there is. The plugins/jails section of the forum is bound to address this question. If not, there are always plex-centric resources on the internet.

You are correct, I will have to post in said locations.



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