How do I ensure USB stick quality?

[Chris Moore]

Isn't it also the case that if you are using encryption (which you shouldn't) that you also need to separately store backup of the encryption keys? They aren't captured in the configuration?

It isn't so much that you shouldn't use encryption as that if you do use encryption you need to take special care otherwise you could lose all your data and yes you do need to store the encryption key separately

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[danb35]

It isn't so much that you shouldn't use encryption

Yeah, it pretty much is. Unless you have a specific legal or regulatory requirement for full-disk encryption, its risks most likely outweigh its benefits.

 

[Chris Moore]

Yeah, it pretty much is. Unless you have a specific legal or regulatory requirement for full-disk encryption, its risks most likely outweigh its benefits.

That is why I said:

if you do use encryption you need to take special care otherwise you could lose all your data

It is not a thing to do lightly and without reason. I am aware, but there are people out there suggesting that it is the correct procedure.
Here is a link to a YouTube video as an example: https://youtu.be/Tm4Iu6fGZe0
I know you will probably not want to watch it, but it is an example of some of the bad advice that is being spread far and wide. This guy from Lawrence Systems, is apparently not suffering any consequences for giving bad advice because he recently got a iXsystems TrueNAS unit to do a video review on. https://youtu.be/TgyYU6wuIgk

 

[toolforger]

Urk. Sickening bad advice - the only way that encryption makes a difference is if somebody gets his hands at the physical drives, and in that case, they can also install keyloggers on all the hardware that logs in to FreeNAS. ZERO security gain.
For a remote box, I'm actually considering encryption. It's one on my (slowly shrinking) list of outstanding FreeNAS questions I plan to post over the next few weeks :-D

 

[gegtor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3f-Sr6y-c4 This official guide at 0:36 says that HDD / SSD is not recommended

Why?

 

[danb35]

Why?

Because they've decided to give irresponsibly bad advice.

 

[toolforger]

"at least 8 GB of RAM" and "at least one disk" isn't the best advice either. They should at least have mentioned that RAM requirements rise with disk size.
(Which is an odd requirement BTW. I'd have expected the RAM size to scale with the working set size, not with disk capacity.)

 

[Chris Moore]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3f-Sr6y-c4 This official guide at 0:36 says that HDD / SSD is not recommended
Why?

I don't understand why they would say "not recommended" because everything else they are saying are absolute minimums and have nothing to do with recommendations.
The absolute best option is an SSD for the boot device. A second choice would be a very small HDD, actually a set in a mirror, that would be used only for the boot pool. If you have an average quality USB stick, it will die after a year but if it is a cheapo, it might not even last that long. I had one die after only around 6 months. That is what prompted me to switch to 40GB laptop drives for my boot pool.

 

[danb35]

They should at least have mentioned that RAM requirements rise with disk size.
(Which is an odd requirement BTW. I'd have expected the RAM size to scale with the working set size, not with disk capacity.)

The rule of thumb is deliberately vague in this regard. For most home users, 16 GB RAM will likely be plenty irrespective of the amount of storage.

 

[farmerpling2]

Here is a link to a YouTube video as an example: https://youtu.be/Tm4Iu6fGZe0
I know you will probably not want to watch it, but it is an example of some of the bad advice that is being spread far and wide.

Sadly, I could not stand to watch much of it. My memory is etched with the end, that I jumped to, seeing him closing out by taking his hand getting ready to itch his head while turning to his right...

He was not blessed with the beauty of seamless speech.

 

[toolforger]

The rule of thumb is deliberately vague in this regard. For most home users, 16 GB RAM will likely be plenty irrespective of the amount of storage.

Video is saying 8 GB, not 16.

The usual recommendation is to increase the RAM by 1 GB per TB of disk.
In theory 8 GB for FreeNAS itself, though I'd expect that to deal with 1 TB of disk easily.
However, I wouldn't expect FreeNAS to run well with 8 GB RAM and 8 TB disk.

In general: Whenever you give advices, it is extremely important to outline when that advice is applicable. If you don't do this, people will run into trouble and never know why, and that means you are putting your reputation at risk.

 

[wblock]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3f-Sr6y-c4 This official guide at 0:36 says that HDD / SSD is not recommended

Why?

Because it's wrong.

 

[toolforger]

Because it's wrong.

Which is wrong: The YouTube guide or the various other sources?

 

[danb35]

Video is saying 8 GB, not 16.

Yes, it is. 8 GB is the minimum for safe and reliable operation. 16 GB is enough that most home users, irrespective of storage capacity, will see adequate performance.

The usual recommendation is to increase the RAM by 1 GB per TB of disk.

The "usual recommendation" is a very loose, deliberately-vague rule of thumb, as I mentioned in the part of my post you quoted.

However, I wouldn't expect FreeNAS to run well with 8 GB RAM and 8 TB disk.

That would depend very much on the use to which it was put--it might run fine. But we'd generally recommend more RAM.

Which is wrong: The YouTube guide or the various other sources?

The Youtube guide.

 

[Chris Moore]

Because it's wrong.

It is a good question. Why is the 'company' publishing videos that give "wrong" information?

 

[nojohnny101]

I have used both mirrored USB sticks and SSDs for boot drives.

I have two FreeNAS servers, one that is local which is my main server, and then a remote backup server which is solely use for receiving snapshots via replication.

I started out with both boxes using mirrored USB drives, using the some of the models that are recommended on here. Some versions ago, FreeNAS was writing useless information the log every 10 seconds or so, it was a bug, and it killed my flash drives very quickly before I could figure out what was going on. Long story short, I was tired of inconveniencing the people that were allowing me to keep my backup server at their residence, so I said, screw it, and I bought two used but quality SSDs then mirrored them. This is overkill, but I don't want to have to go over there again on the count of the boot device failing. Haven't have a problem since. Added benefit was when I installed the SSDs, the interface became snappier and the listing of snapshots in GUI was much quicker.

In my main server, I still used mirror USB drives because I still have some laying around that I had purchased at the time but haven't used yet. Once they all die, I will replace with SSDs. But wouldn't you know it, the mirrored USB drives in my main server hasn't had near the problems have only lost one in the same amount of time (as opposed to 3-4 on the backup server at the remote location, Murphy's law at its finest).

@joeschmuck gave what I believe is the best logic, USB drives used to be so much cheaper than SSDs so mirrored USB drives were recommended. Now the price gap is much narrower and SSDs are so much more reliable, that you can almost save money in the long run by just buying 1 SSD and keeping backups of your config as opposed to mirrored USB drives. Not counting the saved time and convenience of not having to replace failed USB drives often. This is of course under the assumption you have a spare SATA port, which isn't always the case.

To each his/her own.

 

[wblock]

It is a good question. Why is the 'company' publishing videos that give "wrong" information?

It's a mistake. The docs team has been pushing for more review of published materials beyond docs, like videos and advertising, to prevent this kind of mistake. It's a hard sell, particularly when the docs team is already fully utilized and reviews and feedback can add a significant delay. I encourage people to submit bug reports when they find errors like this.

 

[Redcoat]

Clear response @wblock (as usual...). I understand the frustration and the tension involved in these situations having experienced them myself as CTO of a tech-leader engineering company with many functions directly and/or peripherally (and/or unknowingly?) involved in "promotion" - each having different and uncoordinated "by-the-moment" agendas.
I guess I had expected "the company" to be extra-cautious post-Corral.
Good luck!!

 

[danb35]

The docs team has been pushing for more review of published materials beyond docs, like videos and advertising, to prevent this kind of mistake.

It may be a hard sell, but it's probably a good idea--there's still a strong public perception that FreeNAS will run, and run well, on any old junk hardware you might want to throw at it (just look at some of the threads that get posted here). When it doesn't, it reflects poorly on the product, and more so if the user points back to marketing materials that say things like "runs on any standard PC hardware."

 

[JoshDW19]

I've asked the person that manages the youtube videos to issue a correction to the video. Thank you all for pointing that out.