Help and suggestions for building first NAS

[Wylver]

Hello everyone,

First time posting here.
I'm planning to do my very first NAS for home usage and would like a little more input on the hardware I selected thus far.
Guess it makes sense to start listing what the NAS is going to be used for in the first place:

• Torrentclient with Sonarr and Jackett
• Plex server for in-home streaming with light transcoding for remote devices
• Pi-Hole
• Storage for emulator roms that can be mounted to an android device (Nvidia Shield)
• Storage for Steam game backups, to have a part of the library on quick access via 10Gb LAN
• (maybe a Steam download cache)
• (maybe a VM for windows or linux in the future)

Since this NAS is for media consumption only without fullfilling any backup role, I don't see any need for high redundancy.
Therefor I think that a Z1 is enough for redundancy, while trying to maximize storage capacity.
Let's get to the hardware I am looking at right now:

• Motherboard: Gigabyte C246M-WU4 - Socket 1151
• CPU: Intel Core i3-9100, 4x 3.60GHz, boxed
• Memory: Kingston Server Premier DIMM 16GB, DDR4-2400, ECC (KSM24ED8/16ME) x4
• OS SSD: ADATA Ultimate SU650 120GB, SATA x2 for parity (or any other 120gb ssd in the budget range)
• Storage HDD: Seagate Exos X X10 10TB, 512e, SATA 6Gb/s x10
• HBA Raidcontroller: Dell PERC H310 flashed to IT mode
• Torrent scratch disk: Intel SSD 660p 2TB, M.2
• L2ARC SSD: Intel SSD 660p 1TB, M.2
• 10Gb NIC: Intel X550-T1, RJ-45, PCIe 3.0 x4
• Case: Fractal Design Node 804
• PSU: be quiet! Pure Power 11 CM 500W
• 10Gb Switch: ASUS XG-U2008 Unmanaged 2-Port 10G

There are still a couple questions left:

1. Does using a scratch disk for downloading the torrents and then moving them to the HDD when complete, to reduce fragmentation make sense?
2. Am I going to see a benefit from a 1TB big L2ARC SSD for maximizing read speeds for commonly accessed files?
3. Is the CPU potent enough for what I am intending (I am aware, that I would need a much more powerful CPU for higher resolution Plex transcoding, so I am going to avoid transcoding as best I can)? The next meaningful upgrade on this socket would be the Intel Xeon E-2174G
4. Is it safe to buy a H310 RC and a X550 NIC off ebay, potentially from china?
5. Should I consider a UPS for power outages?
6. Is a Ryzen 2nd Gen (3000 series) a viable option for a NAS system compatibility-wise? Would the missing IGP be of any concern for first setup?

This is what I came up with so far.
I'm happy for every piece of advice or viable input I can get on this topic and want to thank everybody in advance for taking their time to read thorugh this topic and try to educate me.

 

[Wylver]

In the last couple of days I kept thinking about a Ryzen alternative for this build including following motherboard and cpu:
AMD Ryzen 5 3600
ASRock B450M Steel Legend or MSI B450M Bazooka Plus (and get rid of the 1TB L2ARC m.2 disk because it only supports one m.2 pcie)
ASRock Rack X470D4U2-2T (go the full distance and have two m.2 pcie slots and a X550-T2 NIC built in, one of the pcie slots being 2.0)

Are any of the two builds, be it Intel or AMD, even doable?

 

[Pitfrr]

Hello,

Here are my comments on your build:

Just out of curiosity, why 2 SSD as boot devices (you mention "for parity"). Are you afraid one of them is going to fail?
If you would have chosen USB keys, then I would agree but on a SSD, I'm less convinced (ok, from a budget perspective it doesn't make much difference but then it's also a SATA port less.).

I wouldn't go for RAIDz1 unless I really don't care about the data or for testing (or eventually for backup). There are some good threads explaining why RAIDz1 is not advised (I won't go more into detail than that you might get an unrecoverable error while rebuilding your pool). I don't have specific links to give you right now.

The motherboard you selected, just be aware that the audio chipset is not used.
I would go for 2x32GB RAM sticks (instead of 4x16GB) so you have room for expansion (up to 128GB as the motherboard).
You should also be aware that this motherboard doesn't seem to have IPMI capabilities (unless I missed it) which comes in handy (when you need it! ).
Would a motherboard with integrated 10Gb be interesting to look at? You can find some around 350-400$ it seems so it might be a bit less than in your list... (oh I haven't read you second post where you have the AsRockRack X470... right, I'd say interesting one.)

About the power supply, are you sure 500W is enough for 10 HDD? I can advise you to read this thread about power supply.

To your questions:
1: good question.... I don't know!
My first reaction was: why going through a scratch disk... then you mention fragmentation... then I started to doubt! :-D
Anyway, I'm not convinced it brings a lot of benefits (to use a scratch disk), but I'm lacking arguments.

2: No. Only in very high load/user context it might be an advantage. And if you experience performances issues, you should first max out your RAM.

3: Depending on the plex usage and streams you want to be able to transcode. The i3 seems quite capable (passmark >9000) but if you want to go into 4K transcoding it won't be enough. You also mention VMs so you'll need some room for that as well.

4: That's always a bit of a gamble. I heard some devices are more susceptible to be fake ones.

5: A UPS is advised of course. Now this depends on how much you value your data. If you don't care, then no UPS is needed . But if you care, then yes, definitely. And also look into having a backup solution.

6: I have no idea here!

Anyway, have fun with your build!

 

[Wylver]

Thanks for the valuable input, much appreciated.

I thought going for parity on the boot drive, even if it is a SATA SSD, is a good choice.
If it doesn't make much difference, dropping one of the SSD's just means less things to worry about.

The idea behind Raid Z1 was, that the data really isn't that valuable, and it's mostly recoverable even in case of a loss.
But if the risk of an error during rebuilding the pool is high enough, than Z1 is basically pointless and just a waste of a HDD.
In that case, a Z2 makes much more sense.
I'm still undecided which one would suit my usecase the most, is the risk of an error during rebuild really that high?

What about the audio chipset on the motherboard?
Is it needed for anything at all, when not plugged directly into the machine itself?

Going for 32GB RAM actually makes perfect sense, as long as the motherboard supports up to 128GB in total.
I even found a compatible stick for purchase in my region (europe): Samsung DIMM 32GB, DDR4-2666, ECC (M391A4G43MB1-CTD) (sorry, no amazon link)
What is IPMI and what might I be able to use it for? Can I ask for an explanation that is as simple as possible? :)

PSU can be upgraded to a higher tier at any leisure, as required. Following the guideline in the provided thread a 650W should do the trick, maybe even a 750W to have some on reserve. Thanks for pointing that one out.

1: The thinking behind a scratch disk comes from reading about this topic on this forum, since torrents tend to fragment a disk when written to it directly. Correct me if I'm wrong.

2: Very well, in this case I can scrap the SSD for a cache and invest in more memory. What about data transfer? Will I be able to saturate the 10Gb interface without a cache?

3: Unfortunately the Intel CPU's on socket 1151 (v2) pale in comparison to the new Ryzen CPU's in regards of performance.
Question about compatibility/drivers and also the missing integrated graphics interface still remains unclear to me.

4: If buying from china involves the risk of fakes, it would make sense to go with a motherboard with a 10Gb NIC built in.
The Raidcontroller will be sourced from a local seller in that case.

5: A Backup UPS for the UPS which in itself is a backup? :P
I'm sure you meant a data backup, but I couldn't resist.

6: So far I'm really tempted to go with a Ryzen build because of the huge jump in performance, but really afraid of bad compatibility.

 

[Pitfrr]

Well, my point of view on the 2 SSD for boot devices is: if you're in a professional context it makes sense to reduce your down time. For a home use, I don't see it as critical. The important thing is to keep a backup of your FreeNAS config and then you just reinstall, restore the config and you're good to go. Worst case your SSD died and you have to use a new device, a USB key in the meantime can do as well.

About RAIDz1: basically with the HDD's size increasing we are closing the to URE (Urecoverable Read Error) rate (about 10^14) during a rebuild. It doesn't mean it will happen, it means the probability is not negligible anymore. You can find some good articles about it online that will explain better than I do.

The audio chipset will not be of any use. It's not used (nor detected) by FreeNAS so... useless.

IPMI is a remove management console. It's handy, you can have your sever in the attic or cellar or anywhere not easily accessible and on your client computer have a console as if you were connected directly to the computer. Comes in handy for troubleshooting and eventually maintenance. Not used very often I'd say but when you need it, it is great. You usually need an extra network cable though.

1: I don't know about the fragmentation for torrents specifically. But you give it a try without scratch disk to begin with and add it later on if you feel the need for it. That might also be a way to go.

2: And as for #1, you can anyway add it later on if needed.
About the 10GbE: I assume a home usage. Why do you want to go for 10GbE instead of 1GbE?
In a home use, your client needs to have quite high specs to keep up with the 10GbE transfer rates so my guess is that your client will not be able to saturate it, most probably? And, I'm a bit "tolerant"... that means, my expectation might not be to the top (at least for home for a single user): if I use 10GbE and I get already better than GbE I'd be happy... If I don't saturate the 10GbE link then I don't care... :-O but that's me...
Here again, as for #1 and #2 you can start with 1GbE and upgrade later if the performances are not satisfactory.

In my opinion: for home usage I find 10GbE to be still a bit expensive for what it brings (that I don't really need).

About the cache: in FreeNAS the RAM is your (main) cache, so that's why you'll look at maximizing the RAM first before adding a cache device.

3: CPU performance Intel vs AMD... I'm completely out of the game here. I might step if I need to change the hardware but not for now...

5: Good one! You're right you shouldn't resist the temptation!
And you're right I meant data backup. But you definitely should consider how you're going to do the backups...

6: I think I saw some threads about Ryzen builds on the forum you might want to check out... I didn't pay much attention though (see #3), so I can't tell.

 

[Wylver]

Okay, I've done a little reading and apparently Ryzen 3000 seems to be a viable option and there are a few builds already.
So here is a new configuration for Ryzen so far:

• Motherboard: ASRock Rack X470D4U - AM4 X470
• CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600
• Memory: Samsung DIMM 32GB, DDR4-2666, ECC (M391A4G43MB1-CTD) x2 (expandable to x4 later down the line)
• OS M.2 SSD: ADATA XPG SX6000 Lite 128GB, M.2
• Storage HDD: Seagate Exos X X10 10TB, 512e, SATA 6Gb/s x10
• HBA Raidcontroller: Unknown yet, suggestions welcome
• Torrent scratch disk: Intel SSD 660p 2TB, M.2
• 10Gb NIC: Intel X540-T1, RJ-45, PCIe 2.1 x8
• Case: Fractal Design Node 804
• PSU: Corsair TX750M 750W
• 10Gb Switch: ASUS XG-U2008 Unmanaged 2-Port 10G

I dropped the M.2 L2ARC and replaced the 2,5" boot drives with a M.2 SSD.
Additionaly I will employ a Z2 raid rather than a Z1 if this is the recommended way to go, sad to lose capacity, but it seems like a more sensible approach.
Then I decided on the X470D4U without the X550 NIC built in, because it supports up to 128GB of memory.
Furthermore I have found that the prices for the X540-T1 have dropped drastically to ~160$ since the last time I checked.
Neat thing I also found out, you don't need a graphics card for initial setup if you have a board with IPMI (correct me if I'm wrong), which the X470D4U has.

Quick sanity check: the X540-T1 states a PCIe 2.1 interface. This is still compatible with any motherboard with PCIe 3.0, right?

At first I was looking at a Dell H310 PERC raidcontroller flashed to IT mode.
Is this still a viable option or should I consider another HBA card?
Any recommendations?

 

[Pitfrr]

Looks quite good, I'd say!

Neat thing I also found out, you don't need a graphics card for initial setup if you have a board with IPMI

Yes, apparently in the X470D4U the graphic card is integrated in the BMC (baseboard management controller) and handles the IPMI as well.

This is still compatible with any motherboard with PCIe 3.0, right?

Normally a PCIe 2.1 card shall work in a PCIe 3.0, it's backwards compatible.

Is this still a viable option or should I consider another HBA card?

A H310 crossflashed to LSI9211 shall work fine (I use one as well, don't remember which exactly... I think it was an H200?).
Any HBA that can be crossflashed to LSI 9211 (or similar) should be good. You can also buy them already flashed, so less troubles...

 

[anmnz]

1: The thinking behind a scratch disk comes from reading about this topic on this forum, since torrents tend to fragment a disk when written to it directly. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes. Other protocols generally provide data that can be written to disk in a sequential stream. Downloading a file over BitTorrent, by contrast, produces lots of little fragments, out of order. Writing these directly to disk means that when you read the file you have to skip all over the place on disk to read these fragments again in the right order. Typically BitTorrent clients can try to preallocate a nice big chunk of contiguous space for the file, e.g. by writing a big stream of zeroes, so that when each fragment arrives it can be overwritten into the "right" place in the file. Then when the file is complete you can read it efficiently with a nice long streaming read without lots of disk seeks. The thing about ZFS is that it's a copy-on-write filesystem, which means it does not modify existing data but always writes a new copy instead. So this "preallocation" approach simply does not work on ZFS. If you use a scratch pool instead, when the file is eventually written to the main pool it is written in one nice long streaming write, which is what you want.

 

[Wylver]

Thank you for this great explanation, this is just what I was looking for.

Now for a totally unrelated question that came up:
What is the difference between those two HDD:
Seagate Exos X X10 10TB, 512e, SATA 6Gb/s (ST10000NM0016)
Seagate Exos X X10 10TB, 512e, SATA 6Gb/s (ST10000NM0086)

I can see on amazon, that the "86" model appears to be the newer one.
But what changed compared to the predecessor?
Or in other words, why should I buy the more expensive newer model compared to the more affordable old one?

 

[Pitfrr]

From Seagate's specs, I can't see any difference (page 2)....

 

[Wylver]

Good catch!
The cheaper one is meant for hyperscaler and the more expensive one is supposed to be for standard DC use.
Only difference I could spot in the sheet, is a miniscule difference in maximum sustained transfer rate.

On another note, I just realized that the scratch disk doesn't need to be on a SSD, since the case can accomodate two more 2,5" drives from the prior changes to the build.
This serves two purposes:
1) A cheaper scratch disk in the form of a 2,5" HDD
2) Freeing up one of the M.2 slots in case a L2ARC would become helpful in the future.

Any flaws in this logic I didn't think of?

 

[Pitfrr]

And for the scratch disk you don't need performances either, so you should be fine with a mechanical 2,5" HDD.

 

[Wylver]

And for the scratch disk you don't need performances either, so you should be fine with a mechanical 2,5" HDD.

Maybe a little bit of performance in the form of at least 60MB/s sustained write (internet speed) ;)
Much to my dismay, I saw that most of the modern 2,5" hard drives with 2TB capacity rely on SMR, so I'm not sure about the sustained write performance.

I'm still a little hesitant to go mechanical for the scratch disk.
Since it will see a lot of read/write I'm a little bit afraid about their longevity and also performance in general.
At this point I'm willing to pay a little extra for a budget 2,5" SSD, just for the piece of mind.

 

[Pitfrr]

One thing to consider: the cache is going to be your memory first, so this might make a difference. To what extend? Well there I don't know (I don't know enough about the behavior of the cache in FreeNAS).
But in any cases you'd want to avoid SMR drive, I've seen bad feedback about them on the forum.

I'm struggling with:

at least 60MB/s sustained write (internet speed)

First: ok I should know, not everyone has a crappy internet connection like me!
Stupid calculation but if you saturate your internet bandwidth then you'll get 5TB a day!
From my perspective: since you server is going to work 24/7, it doesn't matter if you don't saturate your internet bandwidth (you might need some for other activities, like writing in this forum! :-D). But I understand that intellectually you want to have something that hasn't bottlenecks.

 

[Wylver]

You are totally right, it will not run on 60MB/s all day, realistically it will idle most of the time.
But when it is running on max download speed I don't want the drive to be a bottleneck.
Also I might upgrade to 1Gb internet in the future, so the max possible write will increase to (theoretcial) 125MB/s.

I still believe that a 2,5" SSD, even though more expensive, is the smarter choice.

 

[Pitfrr]

In that case, for sure!
Ditch the mechanical HDD!

 

[zeebee]

The thing about ZFS is that it's a copy-on-write filesystem, which means it does not modify existing data but always writes a new copy instead. So this "preallocation" approach simply does not work on ZFS.

@anmnz Nice explanation, thanks. I hadn't heard about this - will add a small scratch disk too.