Hardware suggestions

[Scentle5S]

Hi,

I would like to build a NAS dedicated to movie files sharing through many protocols (mostly Samba), also acting as a Plex server with potentially one transcoding of 1080p movies at a time.

After reading many topics related to FreeNAS and taking into account as many advices as I could find, I've come to the following selection :

ASRock C2550D4I with Intel Avoton C2550 Quad-Core Processor 2.4GHz (Passmark : 2329)
Western Digital Red WD40EFRX 3 x 4TB WD (RaidZ1)
Crucial 16GB Kit (2 x 8GB) DDR3L-1600 ECC UDIMM (CT2KIT102472BD160B)
Goldendisk 16GB SATA DOM SSD
Seasonic G-450 Gold 450W
Fractal Design Node 304

So my main concern is getting good quality parts, having a decently powerfull NAS that is able to satisfy my needs (Plex transcoding from time to time), and for the lowest price possible.

Knowing that, what do you think of my choices ?

I've decided to go for a SATA DOM after reading some topics telling how unpleasant USB sticks could be with FreeNAS. Is it really worth the extra bucks ? Also if I don't do USB mirror, would backing up the SATA DOM every once in a while provide a decent safety ?
I'd like to go with RaidZ1 since it looks like a good comprimise between price and data safety, eventhough I've come accross topics telling that this is not enough. From what I read, I feel like no matter what level of precaution you take, you'll never be safe enough, but as I said : I'd like to stay reasonable financially speaking, and not fall into paranoia, so what do you think ?
Also which SATA connectors should I use on this motherboard (if I go with this one) ? There are two types : "by C2550" and "by Marvell SE9172 / SE9230", what are the differences between the two ?
Bonus question : does anybody know if this setup could handle HEVC/x265 transcoding with Plex ? I can't seem to find precise information on this subject and I wonder if there are CPUs with embedded x265 hardware support or something, which could "easilly" handle x265 transcoding, contrary to CPUs that transcode through software.

I'm also open to any suggestions or tips, as it is my first approach of FreeNAS.

Thanks in advance ;-)

Scentle5S

 

[nojohnny101]

Welcome to FreeNAS and the forums. Sounds like you have done a fair amount of research so that is a good start.

Your build seems good and definitely a budget build but will be fine for what you specified that you want to do. I feel obliged to tell you that there have been an abnormally high number of c2550d4i's and c2750d4i's boards failing prematurely (not to say the majority of them, but more than probably should) so just keep that in mind. i personally own a c2550d4i and it has been fine since october of last year (knock on wood). ASRock support is good though and almost always just RMA the boards and send you a new one (most times, even if it is outside of the 3 year warranty). it is a very good board for the number of sata ports it offers in addition to good features like IPMI. Despite the concerns of premature failure, I would still say its a good board on a budget. RAM looks good for starting out as do your disks and your PSU.

I've decided to go for a SATA DOM after reading some topics telling how unpleasant USB sticks could be with FreeNAS. Is it really worth the extra bucks ? Also if I don't do USB mirror, would backing up the SATA DOM every once in a while provide a decent safety ?

I think most people on here would say going with a SATA DOM is more reliable than two usb sticks mirrored. i personally run two mirrored cruzers but that is just because i'm lazy and that is what i did initially (haven't had any problems). SATA DOM is going to be faster when booting (infrequently in the life of a freenas box) and with applying updates but they are preferred because of reliability. so good choice there. also please read the manual for clarification on restoring the system if a boot device fails. i think you are not clear on how this is done. it has nothing to do with the OS itself but simply involves keeping regular backups of your config file. if your boot device dies, no big deal. get a new one, install freenas, upload config file, and everything will be back to just the way it was (there is a few exceptions, see this thread: what config file doesn't include)

I'd like to go with RaidZ1 since it looks like a good comprimise between price and data safety, eventhough I've come accross topics telling that this is not enough. From what I read, I feel like no matter what level of precaution you take, you'll never be safe enough, but as I said : I'd like to stay reasonable financially speaking, and not fall into paranoia, so what do you think ?

as long as you understand the risks. it seems though raidz1 would make sense since you are only going with 3 disks to start. you didn't mention it but i assume you are keeping a backup of all the data that is going to be stored on this freenas machine incase of pool loss. correct? going with raidz1 and not having a complete backup of all critical data on the freenas machine would be foolish.

Also which SATA connectors should I use on this motherboard (if I go with this one) ? There are two types : "by C2550" and "by Marvell SE9172 / SE9230", what are the differences between the two ?

If you look in the manual for the ASRock c2550d4i it states that you should use the intel sata post first (I believe there are 6, too lazy to double check) then if you need more you can go with the marvell ones. so this seems to suggest that ASRock even knows the marvell controller isn't near as stable as the intel ones. however i have seen 1-2 bios updates that have worked to address this. since my c2550d4i is a backup freenas machine, i am only using the intel sata ports currently.

Bonus question : does anybody know if this setup could handle HEVC/x265 transcoding with Plex ? I can't seem to find precise information on this subject and I wonder if there are CPUs with embedded x265 hardware support or something, which could "easilly" handle x265 transcoding, contrary to CPUs that transcode through software.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. native support for H.265? not that i'm aware of. the c2550d4i though should be plenty capable of converting that. I have actually start to convert my video files in the h.265 anticipating forthcoming wider support (file sizes are noticeably smaller and quality better) and just have plex transcode them until plex and the streaming devices (apple tv, roku, etc.) start support the standard.

good luck!

 

[Mirfster]

going with raidz1 and not having a complete backup of all critical data on the freenas machine would be foolish.

Not having backups period is foolish. ;)

So my main concern is getting good quality parts, having a decently powerfull NAS that is able to satisfy my needs (Plex transcoding from time to time), and for the lowest price possible.

Fast, Good or Cheap. Pick two... :)

I'd like to go with RaidZ1 since it looks like a good comprimise between price and data safety, eventhough I've come accross topics telling that this is not enough. From what I read, I feel like no matter what level of precaution you take, you'll never be safe enough, but as I said : I'd like to stay reasonable financially speaking, and not fall into paranoia, so what do you think ?

Not true, it depends on your willingness to take proper precautions. I'll be honest and tell you right up front RaidZ1 is not want you need. It may be what you *think* you need based on money right now, but how about later down the road when you have issues? How much is it going to cost you in time/hardware/lost data then?

Sure others may jump in and say "well if one keeps a backup then there is nothing to worry about"... Pfft on that... A backup is for DR, not an excuse to do it wrong from the get go. If you can afford a proper local backup that would provide quick recovery, then why not have that consideration from the start and toss in a couple extra drives for RaidZ2?

My "grinchy" response since @jgreco has been absent as of recently... :P

 

[nojohnny101]

↑
going with raidz1 and not having a complete backup of all critical data on the freenas machine would be foolish.
Not having backups period is foolish. ;)

touché! :p

Not true, it depends on your willingness to take proper precautions. I'll be honest and tell you right up front RaidZ1 is not want you need. It may be what you *think* you need based on money right now, but how about later down the road when you have issues? How much is it going to cost you in time/hardware/lost data then?

Sure others may jump in and say "well if one keeps a backup then there is nothing to worry about"... Pfft on that... A backup is for DR, not an excuse to do it wrong from the get go. If you can afford a proper local backup that would provide quick recovery, then why not have that consideration from the start and toss in a couple extra drives for RaidZ2?

this ^ :)

 

[Scentle5S]

First of all : thank you both for your quick and complete answers :D

Welcome to FreeNAS and the forums. Sounds like you have done a fair amount of research so that is a good start.

Thanks :) I'm simply aware that it is always better to do some research before doing anything, especially when it involves a many hundreds of dollars bill, so I do my best to avoid problems later ;)

Despite the concerns of premature failure, I would still say its a good board on a budget.

Ok. I also picked this one for the fanless aspect :D

also please read the manual for clarification on restoring the system if a boot device fails. i think you are not clear on how this is done.

Alright so I read the topic you gave and the manual and I think I get it, although I could use some confirmation : is this what we're talking about ?
Also this line scares me a little :

If you do not select the option to save the data, the system will be recreated with the same ZFS layout, but with no data.

I assume that not selecting the option won't erase the drives, but I'm not sure. Basically, the tipical backup procedure would be to have a copy of the data on a regular hard drive (NTFS or whatever non-ZFS related) and save only the FreeNAS configuration and ZFS layout through this menu, right ?

The other option would be to backup everything including the data, but I can't figure out the advantage since (correct me if I'm wrong) :

1. You won't be able to access your data outside of your FreeNAS since it's gonna be locked up in a huge binary file
2. You'll have to backup the whole thing again if you want to update the backup, which is a real pain if your backup storage isn't big enough to store 2 instances of your data => you'll have to remove the old backup to allow the new one to be created => huge breach during the backup procedure

you didn't mention it but i assume you are keeping a backup of all the data that is going to be stored on this freenas machine incase of pool loss. correct?

Yes I do it's difficult since I have more than 5TB worth of data split on two external hard drives of 5TB and 2TB, which by the way leaves me very few space on them, but I do have a backup ;)

However, from what I've read, assuming I'm backing my configuration file frequently and taking care of my hard drives through S.M.A.R.T. tests, instant replacement on failure and so on, I understand that a complete pool loss should only occur in the extreme case of a triple HDD fail in a VDev, right ? Just trying to completely figure out these aspects here :p

If you look in the manual for the ASRock c2550d4i it states that you should use the intel sata post first (I believe there are 6, too lazy to double check) then if you need more you can go with the marvell ones.

Alright, I didn't go through the manual, sorry :(

I'm not sure what you mean by this. native support for H.265?

Well I read somewhere that x265 could be decode either by hardware or by software. And that CPUs that were not able to decode it by hardware were much more stressed. Hence my question, since Plex states that transcoding a 1080p x264 movie implies a 2000+ passmark CPU, which my old i7 860 2.80GHz with a passmark of 5089 did fine, but when it came to x265, it wasn't able to do the job in real time (video scattering :().

I have actually start to convert my video files in the h.265 anticipating forthcoming wider support (file sizes are noticeably smaller and quality better) and just have plex transcode them until plex and the streaming devices (apple tv, roku, etc.) start support the standard.

So what are the specs of your Plex server, without wishing to be indiscreet :p because if you tell me that your server has the specs I'm about to get, I'd be really relieved since my x265 collection is getting quite big :p

good luck!

Thanks ! :D

If you can afford a proper local backup that would provide quick recovery, then why not have that consideration from the start and toss in a couple extra drives for RaidZ2?

Alright, I hoped RaidZ1 were safer, and at first I was going to listen to you @nojohnny101, but you ended up freaking me out @Mirfster let's go with RaidZ2 right from the start !

I'm sorry if I tend to go off-topic with my questions and I could start new ones if necessary ;)
This leads me to my last question for this answer :p it's more by curiosity, since I'm not even close to meet this case IRL, but looking again at @cyberjock's slideshow made me wonder : what would be the ideal ZFS layout for, let's say 8 x 1TB and RaidZ2 ? 1 VDev of 8TB or 2 of 4TB ? Since 2 of 4 would allow up to 4 drives failure as long as it is 2 in each, but 1 of 8 would only allow 2. What would be the advantage of going with the first option ?

 

[Mirfster]

1 VDev of 8TB or 2 of 4TB ? Since 2 of 4 would allow up to 4 drives failure as long as it is 2 in each, but 1 of 8 would only allow 2. What would be the advantage of going with the first option ?

Well, a 8 x 1TB RaidZ2 would yield ~ 6TB of Space; whereas 2 x 4TB vDevs would be ~ 4TB of Space.
Using 2 vDevs would provide more IOPS.
There is always a balance to be weighed between Space, Speed and Redundancy that you need to decide on.

 

[Scentle5S]

Shame on me ! I didn't even think of the space so 8 x 1 would be best for space, and 2 x 4 for redundancy, but what about speed ?

 

[Mirfster]

Shame on me ! I didn't even think of the space so 8 x 1 would be best for space, and 2 x 4 for redundancy, but what about speed ?

Using 2 vDevs would provide more IOPS.

 

[Scentle5S]

My bad, didn't know the signification of IOPS. Thanks.

 

[nojohnny101]

choosing your initial storage layout including raidz level, number vdevs, number of drives in each vdev eat is something that you should plan carefully. what you do not could make it easier or harder to increase your storage in the future. if you have read cyberjock's presentation then you understand that once you create a vdev, you can not add drives to it (except mirrors). so for example if you start off with only 4 drives, then when you run out of space in the future, your options are to replace all the drives in that 4 drive vdev with larger ones (at which point, after all are replaced with larger capacity drives, the capacity will auto-expand) or to add another vdev to the same pool, striping them together. keep in mind, which you also should understand from cyberjock's presentation, that your pool will be susceptible to the weakest vdev. that is why it is never recommended to start off with an initial raidz2 vdev and then later add another raidz1 vdev. if you lose 2 drives in that raidz1 vdev, you lose everything on the pool.

this is why it is better to start with as many drives as you can afford (within reason). most recommend a sweet spot of "6" because you can then use raidz2 and you only lose 2 of the 6 drives to parity and you options to upgrade in the future are to add another 6 disk vdev raidz2 (it is also generally recommended to not mix different raidz levels within a pool). if you start off with 4 drives or even 3 drives it makes it more difficult or offers your fewer options to expanding your storage in the future.

read cyberjock's presentation again carefully and understand what it is saying. @Mirfster is telling you something that you also must consider, the redundancy vs. performance consideration. raidz3 performances slower (lower IOPS) then raidz2 then raidz1 than mirrors. as you can see, raidz3 is the most "safe" options because it allows 3 drives to fail and your pool to still function, however the tradeoffs are slower performance, greater resilver times, and more allocated space for parity which you don't get to use.

I can tell you that most people go for raidz2. it is a good balance between performance and redundancy. raidz2 is more than enough to run plex and some basic file sharing. you're going to be limited by your gigabit LAN before the speed of your vdev. raidz2 is also what i would recommend for you if you can afford more than 3 disks.

Not true, it depends on your willingness to take proper precautions. I'll be honest and tell you right up front RaidZ1 is not want you need. It may be what you *think* you need based on money right now, but how about later down the road when you have issues? How much is it going to cost you in time/hardware/lost data then?

Sure others may jump in and say "well if one keeps a backup then there is nothing to worry about"... Pfft on that... A backup is for DR, not an excuse to do it wrong from the get go. If you can afford a proper local backup that would provide quick recovery, then why not have that consideration from the start and toss in a couple extra drives for RaidZ2?

this is essentially arguing "better to wait, save your money until you start off with more drives, then choose the recommended raidz2 setup rather than build now, go wth raidz1, and putting all of your data at risk". good advice.

 

[Scentle5S]

Alright, as you said, I already got most of the aspects from cyberjock's slideshow, but now I'm sure that I truly understand them ;)

Is it possible to have some confirmation / answer to my few remaining questions please :P ? :

Alright so I read the topic you gave and the manual and I think I get it, although I could use some confirmation : is this what we're talking about ?

Also this line scares me a little :

If you do not select the option to save the data, the system will be recreated with the same ZFS layout, but with no data.

I assume that not selecting the option won't erase the drives, but I'm not sure. Basically, the typical backup procedure would be to have a copy of the data on a regular hard drive (NTFS or whatever non-ZFS related) and save only the FreeNAS configuration and ZFS layout through this menu, right ?

The other option would be to backup everything including the data, but I can't figure out the advantage since (correct me if I'm wrong) :

1. You won't be able to access your data outside of your FreeNAS since it's gonna be locked up in a huge binary file
2. You'll have to backup the whole thing again if you want to update the backup, which is a real pain if your backup storage isn't big enough to store 2 instances of your data => you'll have to remove the old backup to allow the new one to be created => huge breach during the backup procedure

However, from what I've read, assuming I'm backing up my configuration file frequently and taking care of my hard drives through S.M.A.R.T. tests, instant replacement on failure and so on, I understand that a complete pool loss should only occur in the extreme case of a triple HDD fail in a VDev, right (assuming RaidZ2)?

So what are the specs of your Plex server, without wishing to be indiscreet :p ?

 

[nojohnny101]

Alright so I read the topic you gave and the manual and I think I get it, although I could use some confirmation : is this what we're talking about ?

not exactly. that seems to be the process for backing a config file and other information to a remote server. unless you need to do this, it is much simpler to just download your config and then in the same place upload that downloaded config file on you have your system backup and running:
from the manual:

Save Config: used to save a backup copy of the current configuration database in the format hostname-version-architecture to the system being used to access the administrative interface. It is recommended to always save the configuration after making any configuration changes. Note that while FreeNAS® automatically backs up the configuration database to the system dataset every morning at 3:45, this backup will not occur if the system is shutdown at that time and the backup will not be available if the system dataset is stored on the boot pool and the boot pool becomes unavailable. You can determine and change the location of the system dataset using System ‣ System Dataset.

Upload Config: allows you to browse to the location of a previously saved configuration file in order to restore that configuration. The screen will turn red as an indication that the system will need to reboot in order to load the restored configuration.

Config file (right below table 5.2.1.)

of course you don't want to do this manually because you will forget. so there have been many scripts written to automate the process whereas the scripts checks to see if the configuration file has changed, if it has, it backups it up to a specified place on your pool and archives pervious backuped configuration files. here is the one i use ebright backup script you should search the forums though, there are multiple scripts that others use.

However, from what I've read, assuming I'm backing up my configuration file frequently and taking care of my hard drives through S.M.A.R.T. tests, instant replacement on failure and so on, I understand that a complete pool loss should only occur in the extreme case of a triple HDD fail in a VDev, right (assuming RaidZ2)?

yes and no. you should know that S.M.A.R.T. tests do not always catch failing drives. they are still valuable to run as needed, but they should not provide you with a false sense of security. having said that, if you do regularly backup your config file, having email notifications setup so you can stay on top of errors, keep your temps under control for your drives (ideal is no cooler than 35C and no hotter than 40C) then yes, it would be extremely unlikely that you would lose your pool. Something though that you haven't mentioned is a UPS. these are also strongly recommended because of the potential damage that a sudden interruption of power can cause to freenas. a small one will suffice to protect against surges/brownouts and power outages, affording enough time for the system to be properly shutdown. thankfully, freenas has solid support for a number of UPS and can interface with them.

So what are the specs of your Plex server, without wishing to be indiscreet :p ?

well my current main freenas box is the one that i am running plex on and all the details are in my signature.

 

[Scentle5S]

Ok, thanks again guys for your help ! ;)

I will consider all of this and should begin my FreeNAS experience soon ! :D

 

[Dice]

choosing your initial storage layout including raidz level, number vdevs, number of drives in each vdev eat is something that you should plan carefully.

^ this

I'll post a link to my newbie-post, where I follow up a bit on reasoning on the future aspects and planning a head of my build.
It might give you some further ideas on how to approach different scenarios through out the thread.

https://forums.freenas.org/index.ph...g-from-windows-strategies-and-hardware.40382/

 

[VladTepes]

Scentle55 - I've recently been through this whole experience (determining what system set up I would use)

I determined that TB space requirements (including medium term expansion) and physical space constraints in the case practically limit me to 6 drives. I already had 3 x 3Tb drives so I bought another 3 and chose a RaidZ2 configuration. This will see me good for some time and if I ever need to expand capacity I will go via the 'replace existing drives with new drives of higher capacity' method. In the meantime HDD prices/TB will drop significantly. (I assume).


Like you my learning curve has been (and continues to be) very steep. Stick with it though !
Some of my recent threads might be useful to you as you start to set your system up as you may encounter the same issues / have the same questions as I did,

Cheers

 

[Mr_N]

I already had 3 x 3Tb drives so I bought another 3 and chose a RaidZ2 configuration.

I would have bought 3x 4TB drives and then slowly as money permited replaced each of the original 3TB drives with 4TB, given the high failure rates with 1.5/3TB Seagate drives over the last couple of yrs :)

 

[Stux]

I would have bought 3x 4TB drives and then slowly as money permited replaced each of the original 3TB drives with 4TB, given the high failure rates with 1.5/3TB Seagate drives over the last couple of yrs :)

Just had my second to last 1.5TB seagate fail yesterday. Only 1 left now. So, 11 failures out of 12 all up.

And this one was a replacement for one that failed! I stopped bothering with RMAing them in the end.

7200.11 drives.

>90% failure rate. I plan to push it to 100%.

I stopped using these drives for anything critical years ago... One of the reasons I became a massive RAID6 fan.

 

[VladTepes]

Mr_N - in hindsight that is exactly what I should have done. 20/20 hindsight !
It's OK though this will do me for quite a while as is.

They are WD Red NAS drives, not Seagate.

 

[Mr_N]

well thats not too bad then :)