BUILD FreeNAS on IBM System x3850 standard

[GavilanZ]

Hi All,

First of all, I'd like to introduce myself since I'm new in this forum.
My name is Patricio, I'm from Argentina and I work as an IT consultant on Binnaris IT consulting.
I've been using FreeNAS since version 0.7.2 Sabanda (revision 6694), in fact that's server I've installed on 2011 and never had a single issue. Clearly FreeNAS is one of the best NAS systems ever.

A few days ago, a client asked if there is possible to install FreeNAS on a IBM System x3850 standard
(as far as I know, this is a base server and the disks are yet to be bough and installed)
Here are the specs of this machine:

http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/x/hardware/enterprise/x3850x5/specs.html

http://www-304.ibm.com/shop/america...1686018425279711&dualCurrId=73&catalogId=-840

I've googled if there was any info about this specific kind of installation, but I've found nothing.

My primary concern about this is:

Will the disk controllers allow to connect the disks WITHOUT using the RAID function?

Since the best characteristic of FreeNAS is to be able to use ZFS (on RAIDZ, RAIDZ2 or RAIDZ3), what sense would it make to be forced to use the disks on a hardware RAID configuration?

If Im not wrong, the best of using a ZFS RAID is to be able to replace a broken disk with no
trouble other than change it for a new one and perform a zpool resilver.

Given the case of this server's disk controller will not permit a "JBOD" configuration, it's a good call to install and configure FreeNAS to use the RAIDX, provided by the controller?

Thank you in advance for all the info and advice you could provide about this!

FIRST 3 PEOPLE WHO ANSWERS WINS A FREE & UNLIMITED BEER IN ARGENTINA! ;-)

 

[no_connection]

From what I can see it uses the M1015 for all other models so add one. Negligible cost compared to the rest of the system.
You'd still have to add RAM for any serious use.
NIC should work fine.

http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/abstracts/tips0817.html

Although I somehow get the feeling that the server is somewhat overkill yet a little too slow single core. Half of a lowly Pentium G3220.
(PassMark of 18848 for 4 CPUs = 785 per core, possibly lower due to HT) 1596 per core for G3220.

 

[GavilanZ]

Hi no_connection,

Thank you so much for your answer!. If you ever come to Buenos Aires, the drinks are on me (also the "asado" = argentinean BBQ):D

From what I can see it uses the M1015 for all other models so add one. Negligible cost compared to the rest of the system.

Controller:

Our potential client's idea -or at least, this was in it's mind- is to make a RAID 5 of 5 TB and a RAID10 of 5 TB.
Im pretty sure that he doesn't know about ZFS and RAIDZ# but regarding what I saw here, the M1015 has 2 internal SAS-miniports to drive-up 16 devices,
do you suggest to add one more M1015 anyway so the server could handle 32 drives?

Since he want's a total of 20TB of payload space, I was thinking of making 2 RAIDZ2 configured this way:
3 x 2TB data disks + 2 x 2TB parity disks + 1 2TB hot spare disk = 6 disks total = 6TB of payload data in each RAIDZ2

With this config there's 4 SAS ports free for future capacity expansion, I completely agree with you when you say that the cost is "Negligible", but here in Argentina 1 U$S equals to 10AR$
(a thumbdrive in Argentina is already expensive.....dammit!)

You'd still have to add RAM for any serious use.
NIC should work fine.
http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/abstracts/tips0817.html

RAM / NIC:

I know...of course it depends on the client's budget but, no less than 16GB JUST for ZFS, and if possible I'll suggest 32GB or more depending on the load. ..."you can never, ever had too much RAM, wright?"

Although I somehow get the feeling that the server is somewhat overkill yet a little too slow single core. Half of a lowly Pentium G3220.
(PassMark of 18848 for 4 CPUs = 785 per core, possibly lower due to HT) 1596 per core for G3220.

CPU:

I'm not quite sure if I follow you, do you think that the CPUs are not OK for this application?, would you suggest another CPUs

Thank you again, for all the advice and I look forward of you comments.

Cheers
Patricio

PS: Please excuse my english, there's been a while I don't write in it

 

[Rand]

If that server is not already in possession of the client then i'd say it's not the smartest buy for a fileserver.

It is a 2,5" disk based system and while it has like 56 drive bays
-you need to use an expander or HBAs with lots of ports; not sure how many PCIe slots the board has but with 8ports/M1015 you'll not have enough.
-If you are looking for 20TB usable space then given the largest disks at the IBM page is 1,2TB you need about 20 disks and those would be like 20k$US at IBMs
-If you dont buy IBM disks you could probably get 2TB drives for around $200US each but those are consumer drives and probably neither particular reliable nor performant.

On the other hand if this is going to be a VMWare datastore then the multiple drives might be put to good use but its still going to be *expensive* (mirror setup, double the drive count, additional controllers).

So some more info on the workload would be good.
That would allow some comments on CPU and Ram usage (and possible filesystem layouts)

 

[GavilanZ]

Hi Rand,

Thank you so much for your answer too!. If you ever come to Buenos Aires, the drinks are on me (also the "asado" = argentinean BBQ):D

Well, the server effectively is in possesion of the client, but AFAIK, it's standard/base version, so all the extra drives, RAM, and CPUs
are yet to be bought. (I understand also, that this server may be a "leftover" for their virtualized environment, but I'm not quite sure,
this week I'll have a meeting with the technical staff in order to understand all this better).

Without being a "acquainted" with this type of servers, I completely agree with all you say -I't makes complete sense to me-.
I'm afraid that, may be, that in order to get use of this machine, all the project would cost more than buying a brand new server with better "design"
to install a FreeNAS server.

If the above should not be considered as "an option", what system would you recommend to install a FreeNAS server?...or, in
the case that we have the possibility to import/buy, would you suggest to buy a commercial FreeNAS / IXsystems TrueNAS appliance?

As soon as I get more info about the type of use/workload of this future system, I'll keep you informed.

Thank you again for all the advice, and I look forward of you comments.

Cheers
Patricio

 

[cyberjock]

As another option.. I do consultant work on FreeNAS servers... both reusing old hardware(where not a dangerous option) or providing cost effective alternatives when required(or desired). PM me if you are interested.

 

[Rand]

@Patricio, if you never have worked with FreeNas (or ZFS) then it indeed may be smart to get a consultant in on it for at least a couple of hours for planning/ review, final validation/optimization.
That said, you have multiple options
-Use the IBM HW and IBM HW to beef it up (make sure to match the required dsks with HBA ports or expanders)
-Use IBM HW and non IBM to beef it up - might leave you out of IBM HW support
-Buy a whitebox (eg with CJs help)
-Buy a Truenas Box (CJs help optionally)

All of that will require proper understanding of expectations/requirements of your customer so make sure to pick that up and read up on the key factors before like different workload types, #users, integration into existing systems etc pp) (or consult CJ again for providing that).
O/c you can contract any other FreeNas consultant or IXSystems as well but depending on your timeframe and future plans that probably is the cheapest way to get this going (unless you have a couple of months and spare HW to learn it yourself).

Good luck.

 

[no_connection]

With CIFS being single threaded you might run into single user CPU bottleneck depending on what you do with it. That is why faster cores are recommended over more of them.
It all depends on what you want to do. 1GBe might saturate fine but I doubt 10G will.

While CJ probably have spread most of what you need to know around the forum it would still take you time to find it, so a bit of consulting to not get it wrong might ending up being worth it in the end.

 

[GavilanZ]

Hi all again,

Sorry for the delay in this answer, but thank you very much for all the replays.

As of consulting, yes, sure. I would not be smart on my side trying to do such project without a backup of the people
which works with this in a daily basis. ( I've once heard that an "an expert is the one who's been through all mistakes" )

I know for certain that money used on knowing for sure if whatever you are trying to do will not just work, but
perform as needed, is the crucial in any project. (I'm pretty sure that we all seen "customers/people" trying to go to the moon
with 15 bucks, but what is worse, people assuring that this was possible)

As soon as I get more details about this, I'll keep in touch in order to let you know in detail what is to be done, and
who of you fine gentlemen can provide us some hours of consulting.

Thanks again to all of you, and I'll keep in touch soon.

Patricio