First time building and setting up a NAS!

[NJboneless]

So I have a few questions concerning building my own nas, but Ill give you a quick background first.

I am building the nas for home use, so that I can have one central location for all our pictures. Not even concerned about documents or anything, mostly pictures and videos (I do photography as a fun hobby, but raw files get a little big eh?) . I am looking at anywhere from 3TB and up for storage capacity.

So far I have the following components (all purchased new, I want to do this once and do it right):

Fractal R4
Seasonic 620W Bronze
Biostar Z87X motherboard
4gb G Skill 1600 Ripjaws

I still need to get a cpu (looking at the 1150 pentiums), and obviously the hard drives. (Black Friday hehe)

So I am very tech savvy and have done lots with computers, and I pick things up very fast. But I have to admit, jumping into this whole nas thing (specifically using freenas), it is something I am not familiar with and have never used before, so I have a few noob questions for you guys.

1. Does cpu affect the performance of the nas much?
2. Do I need a small seperate hard drive to install freenas on? Would a small SSD improve performance?
3. Will I be able to connect to the nas via local wifi? What about from an external network?
4. Does freenas allow an automatic backup of files? For example, do an auto backup every month of certain files?
5. And heres the big question that I have done a load of research on and still cant decide whats best: What Raid configuration should I use? I know most people would say for my application, just skip raid and get a single 4tb or something....but when I look at reliability and reviews, I see that the bigger the drives are, the more they fail. So even though its more expensive, wouldnt I be better off going with say 4 1tb, in raid 5, so atleast I have 3tb of pretty reliable storage but still have the raid config behind my back in case one fails (plus my extra backup I plan on keeping manually)?

Actually I will admit, the raid configuration I would want most is to have 2 of 2tb, in raid 0, so I just have one big 4tb. But I have read that raid 0 is not the way you want to go in a nas?

ANY pointers or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Sorry for the long post!

-NJ

 

[Fraoch]

Almost all your questions are answered in the hardware recommendations sticky.

Sorry to be a downer here, but after you read it, you may want to repurpose the motherboard and memory or look into returning it...

As for what's not answered in the sticky:

3. Will I be able to connect to the nas via local wifi?

Yes, that's the primary way to control it. The IP address will be listed in the console (the only local display FreeNAS provides, and it's only for setup or emergencies.)

What about from an external network?

Probably not for security reasons, but I guess you could use a secure SSH tunnel for CLI access? You'd have to do some network configuration. FreeNAS is definitely not designed to be used in this way, although there are several plugins that allow external file sharing and syncing.

4. Does freenas allow an automatic backup of files? For example, do an auto backup every month of certain files?

No. You'd have to use a plugin to backup files to a remote server.

 

[anodos]

So far I have the following components (all purchased new, I want to do this once and do it right):

Biostar Z87X motherboard
4gb G Skill 1600 Ripjaws

ANY pointers or advice would be greatly appreciated.

-NJ

If you can return the motherboard and RAM, exchange them for proper server motherboard and 8GB ECC RAM.

 

[NJboneless]

Hmmm ok, so what exactly is it about the standard desktop components that wont work so well? Purchased components from newegg, so returns will cost me. Is it worth the extra money to go with server boards?

I posted a while back on overclock.net, and people said that standard desktop components would work just fine. Now I wish I would have posted here first lol!

 

[anodos]

Hmmm ok, so what exactly is it about the standard desktop components that wont work so well? Purchased components from newegg, so returns will cost me. Is it worth the extra money to go with server boards?

I posted a while back on overclock.net, and people said that standard desktop components would work just fine. Now I wish I would have posted here first lol!

The key requirement is ECC RAM. Read information here: https://forums.freenas.org/index.ph...ning-vdev-zpool-zil-and-l2arc-for-noobs.7775/ as well as various hardware stickies.
Assuming that data integrity and reliability are goals for your build, it is worth the additional cost of doing it right.
The posters on overclock.net may not have much experience with ZFS or FreeNAS.

 

[Fraoch]

It's ECC support. Desktop boards don't support it and many desktop CPUs don't either (Core i5s, Core i7s, possibly AMD CPUs).

ECC support is vital in FreeNAS:

https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/ecc-vs-non-ecc-ram-and-zfs.15449/

There's really no point in using ZFS and FreeNAS unless you're using ECC.

 

[Fraoch]

By the way, things are evolving and some of the recommendations in the hardware recommendations sticky may have to be revised.

You may want to look into a Core i3 rather than a Pentium:

https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/getting-ready-to-build-a-nas-amd.24481/#post-151252

Early indications are a Celeron or a Pentium may not work with future versions of FreeNAS.

 

[NJboneless]

Haha crap! Atleast I dont have too much put into components yet. I definitely dont mind putting some money into this, but then again I also want to be efficient, and not totally splurge. I am "splurging" on other things on the list this black friday ;)

So I buy a motherboard that supports ECC ($120ish if I can get one on sale?) That means I cant just throw a cheap i3 into that, as I need a cpu that supports ecc too? Then obviously get ecc ram, but thats not a problem.

Whats the cheapest I would be looking at to to buy the right components? And yes, reliability is the goal, but then again its not going to be under much load ever so dont need top of the line. Trying to reflect that in my "budget" (actually dont have much of a budget........... lol!)

 

[anodos]

Haha crap! Atleast I dont have too much put into components yet. I definitely dont mind putting some money into this, but then again I also want to be efficient, and not totally splurge. I am "splurging" on other things on the list this black friday ;)

So I buy a motherboard that supports ECC ($120ish if I can get one on sale?) That means I cant just throw a cheap i3 into that, as I need a cpu that supports ecc too? Then obviously get ecc ram, but thats not a problem.

Whats the cheapest I would be looking at to to buy the right components? And yes, reliability is the goal, but then again its not going to be under much load ever so dont need top of the line. Trying to reflect that in my "budget" (actually dont have much of a budget........... lol!)

Here is a list of non-xeon processors that support ecc: http://ark.intel.com/search/advanced?ECCMemory=true&MarketSegment=DT
Best bet on motherboard / ECC RAM is to stick to what's recommended in the hardware stickies.

 

[Fraoch]

Haha crap! Atleast I dont have too much put into components yet.

Sorry but although FreeNAS and ZFS can really keep your data secure, the hardware costs (and learning curve) are not inconsiderable.

It's an excellent learning tool for sure, a completely different world than desktop hardware and software.

So I buy a motherboard that supports ECC ($120ish if I can get one on sale?)

Umm...make that $200, and not on sale. SuperMicro doesn't "do" sales.;)

That means I cant just throw a cheap i3 into that, as I need a cpu that supports ecc too? Then obviously get ecc ram, but thats not a problem.

Actually the Core i3s do support ECC. If the hardware recommendations sticky says Pentium, think Core i3 just to be safe based on that post I quoted. Pentiums and even Celerons support ECC as well, but Celerons don't have enough power and Pentiums may not be supported in future versions. And in regards to RAM, make sure to get at least 8 GB and make sure it's on the motherboard QVL (this is very important and quite different than desktop boards). Check this:

https://forums.freenas.org/index.ph...or-supermicro-x10-lga1150-motherboards.23291/

You might want to think about 16 GB for future proofing and because ZFS really, really likes RAM.:D

Whats the cheapest I would be looking at to to buy the right components? And yes, reliability is the goal, but then again its not going to be under much load ever so dont need top of the line. Trying to reflect that in my "budget" (actually dont have much of a budget........... lol!)

Many find it hard to get all this for under $1000. If it's not top of the line, you won't need a E5 Xeon or an E3 Xeon but you will still need at least 4 hard drives, plus a ~$200 server board plus a ~$100 Core i3...

If you can manage the hardware and get enough knowledge to properly manage the software, it's an extremely reliable system, but it's not budget-friendly.

 

[NJboneless]

Ok, I was thinking more along the lines of $600 all said and done. I guess everywhere I read said you could get away with 2gb ram and some old desktop, just throw in a few hard drives and your good! I obviously was going for something more than that, but didnt really expect this whole server thing to come up. Makes sense though! (doesnt make cents though, just had to throw that in).

Ok so before I get serious about all this, do you think if I just used with the components I have, would I really be facing corrupt data issues in the real world? Or is that just a possibility? In other words, what are the chances that I will face real world problems (corrupt data etc) by using desktop components?

I even had an i3 2120 sitting around, but it doesnt support ECC. ugh lol.

 

[pirateghost]

Ok, I was thinking more along the lines of $600 all said and done. I guess everywhere I read said you could get away with 2gb ram and some old desktop, just throw in a few hard drives and your good! I obviously was going for something more than that, but didnt really expect this whole server thing to come up. Makes sense though! (doesnt make cents though, just had to throw that in).

Ok so before I get serious about all this, do you think if I just used with the components I have, would I really be facing corrupt data issues in the real world? Or is that just a possibility? In other words, what are the chances that I will face real world problems (corrupt data etc) by using desktop components?

I even had an i3 2120 sitting around, but it doesnt support ECC. ugh lol.

If you really want to use those components, then have a look at Openmediavault as an alternative. Freenas is not intended for desktop/leftovers from other pc builds. It is intended with enterprise level functionality in mind. As such, the cost of entry is much higher with FreeNAS.

I would suggest, however, that you open your wallet up a bit and enjoy the beauty of Freenas. You won't regret it in the long run.

 

[krikboh]

Implementing FreeNAS without ECC RAM can lead to complete data loss, not just some corruption.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[NJboneless]

I totally agree, I dont mind spending a bit extra. But for right now, I have $150 worth of components that arent gonna do me much good that I would like to get rid of first. I had a typo on the first post, I purchased a 2x4gb kit of ram, so 8gb.

So if I do go ahead with all these server components, that brings me back to a big question, what raid configuration do I go with? I know thats a stupid question considering I dont have any nas put together yet, but what would your guys thoughts be? I only ask because I am actively looking out for good deals for nas hard drives, so I am trying to come up with an overall plan in case I find a good deal.

Also on the subject of server motherboard pricing, I see what you mean by $200 range. I found a bunch for $150ish, but they dont have sata III which would be stupid not to get. Thoughts on other brand server boards (asus, intel, asrock?)

Thanks a load for the input so far, I really appreciate the guidance and suggestions.

 

[NJboneless]

Or am I just better off dropping $400 on a seagate 4tb nas and calling it a day? lol

 

[Ericloewe]

I totally agree, I dont mind spending a bit extra. But for right now, I have $150 worth of components that arent gonna do me much good that I would like to get rid of first. I had a typo on the first post, I purchased a 2x4gb kit of ram, so 8gb.

So if I do go ahead with all these server components, that brings me back to a big question, what raid configuration do I go with? I know thats a stupid question considering I dont have any nas put together yet, but what would your guys thoughts be? I only ask because I am actively looking out for good deals for nas hard drives, so I am trying to come up with an overall plan in case I find a good deal.

Also on the subject of server motherboard pricing, I see what you mean by $200 range. I found a bunch for $150ish, but they dont have sata III which would be stupid not to get. Thoughts on other brand server boards (asus, intel, asrock?)

Thanks a load for the input so far, I really appreciate the guidance and suggestions.

SATA 3Gb/s won't bottleneck a mechanical HDD for many years to come (unless cache sizes massively increase, which is unlikely).

For storage configurations, read Cyberjock's guide (link is in my sig).

 

[Fraoch]

So if I do go ahead with all these server components, that brings me back to a big question, what raid configuration do I go with? I know thats a stupid question considering I dont have any nas put together yet, but what would your guys thoughts be? I only ask because I am actively looking out for good deals for nas hard drives, so I am trying to come up with an overall plan in case I find a good deal.

If you're going to be spending this much, you should take advantage of the data security ZFS offers. That means RAIDZ with parity, which means RAID-Z1, RAID-Z2 or RAID-Z3.

Take a look at this slideshow:

https://forums.freenas.org/index.ph...ning-vdev-zpool-zil-and-l2arc-for-noobs.7775/

Slide 56 has an explanation. RAID-Z1 has one disk for parity. If you lose that disk, you can rebuild the array...but...hard drives have gotten sufficiently large without a corresponding increase in reliability to the point that there's a chance you will lose another disk as you rebuild the array (moving huge amounts of data around and stressing the drives). RAID-Z2 has two disks for parity and is less risky. You'll need a minimum of 4 disks for RAID-Z2.

Also on the subject of server motherboard pricing, I see what you mean by $200 range. I found a bunch for $150ish, but they dont have sata III which would be stupid not to get.

Actually that's perfectly fine. Most of your disks' speeds are well under SATA II speed (sometimes even SATA I) and you're limited by a gigabit ethernet port to ~125 MB/s anyway, so SATA II is sufficient.

You'll find server boards are more conservative than desktop boards, but take into consideration what you're doing with them. The cost goes into high reliability components that matter to servers - dual Intel gigabit LAN ports, SAS controllers, lots of SATA ports, IPMI (which is truly amazing).

Thoughts on other brand server boards (asus, intel, asrock?)

Not too many people here use ASUS or Intel server boards. Some do use ASRock and the iXsystems FreeNAS Mini does use an ASRock board (iXsystems owns the rights to FreeNAS). However none have the long-term reputation of SuperMicro. Server builders are very conservative and favour long-term reliability over cutting-edge features. SuperMicro has proven themselves over a decade or more. The feeling is that other more recent entrants have to prove themselves in the server field. ASRock is competing hard though.

 

[NJboneless]

Will the router affect speeds much (from what I have read it will actually be the main limiting factor...)? Right now I am running a Linksys EA4500, but the amount of devices in the house that pull internet is a lot. I understand its gigabit, but there is still a fair amount of traffic going through it.

3 smartphones
4 tablets
9 computers
3 Tvs
The list goes on.....

That is also why I am going with a nas in the first place, so that I can have access to my pictures and files from all (or most) of my devices. Even though this will cost me a bit more than I planned, I honestly cant wait to have a nas running in the house.

I think I have a bit of reading to do now...lol

Thanks guys

 

[Fraoch]

Or am I just better off dropping $400 on a seagate 4tb nas and calling it a day? lol

That will store files just fine, but it doesn't do anything more than a normal desktop hard drive will do to protect the data. It depends how safe you want your data to be.

 

[Fraoch]

Will the router affect speeds much (from what I have read it will actually be the main limiting factor...)? Right now I am running a Linksys EA4500, but the amount of devices in the house that pull internet is a lot. I understand its gigabit, but there is still a fair amount of traffic going through it.

3 smartphones
4 tablets
9 computers
3 Tvs
The list goes on.....

Yes, you will of course be limited by network speed. You should definitely wire the NAS. It might not be so bad though, the switches in even low-end gigabit routers are capable of gigabit speeds on just about all ports simultaneously. Those switch chips have evolved to the point where wired speed is not a great concern. Wireless hardly uses any bandwidth in comparison to gigabit. Your router can be quite busy with wireless data and still have lots of resources free for gigabit transfers since the LAN ports often use a dedicated switch chip or have this functionality built into the CPU, separate from the wireless hardware.

Of course you might get benefits from separating out wireless data and using a gigabit switch:

http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/lanwan/lanwan-basics/32056-how-to-improve-network-performance-part-1

but this might not be the bottleneck. If a wireless device is accessing the NAS, the bottleneck won't be the gigabit connection, it'll be the wireless connection. The same site I posted above shows the highest wireless data throughput they ever measured was a little less than 250 Mb/s. That's the very fastest 802.11ac under absolutely ideal conditions at short range. It's less than 1/4 of the gigabit bandwidth. Your gigabit connection won't be stressed at all. Even with several simultaneous transfers, the wireless radio will be so busy you won't get much higher than that in total.