Dell Poweredge T430 convert to 3.5" drives?

[nasbuild]

Hi,

Annoyingly I have this server with tons of RAM, dual CPU etc and proxmox running, so would be perfect to supersede my now end of life readynas.

However I purchased the 16 x 2.5" model some years ago!!

Is it possible to install 4 x 3.5" in this chassis somehow? Or with some external box?

 

[jgreco]

Probably not possible to convert the chassis. You might be able to use an external JBOD chassis to hold your 3.5" HDD's. You'd need an HBA with SFF8088 external connectors. It's a lot of work. Might be easier to put your existing unit up on eBay after buying a replacement.

 

[jgreco]

Don't be afraid to be SAS-sy ... a primer on basic SAS and SATA

With the introduction of SAS 12Gbps, seems like "it's time" to do a braindump on SAS. Work in progress, as usual. History By the late '90's, SCSI and PATA were the dominant technologies to attach disks. Both were parallel bus multiple drop topologies and this kind of sucked. SATA and Serial...

www.truenas.com

 

[nasbuild]

By existing unit you mean the readynas?

If I buy a replacement for this then it wouldn't be a TrueNAS software which I'm really keen on trying.

Are you effectively saying in the linked article that even if I have the 8 bay chassis that SAS isn't ideal for this use case anyway?

 

[firesyde424]

It's theoretically possible. However, Dell doesn't support the operation and it's not a very common server change. Having said that, there is no mechanism, other than physical, that prevents this change. You will need at least the 8 x 3.5" backplane which appear to be readily available on Ebay. I don't believe the 16 x 2.5" backplane uses a different cable, but you would need to check that one out. The procedure for replacing the backplane is detailed by Dell here. In that video they show removing the backplane and replacing it with an identical one, but the procedure should be the same for you, just with the different backplane.

We actually have a T430 with the 8x 3.5" backplane. I can't take it apart as it's in use currently, but I'd be happy to provide any pictures for reference if needed.

 

[nasbuild]

It's theoretically possible. However, Dell doesn't support the operation and it's not a very common server change. Having said that, there is no mechanism, other than physical, that prevents this change. You will need at least the 8 x 3.5" backplane which appear to be readily available on Ebay. I don't believe the 16 x 2.5" backplane uses a different cable, but you would need to check that one out. The procedure for replacing the backplane is detailed by Dell here. In that video they show removing the backplane and replacing it with an identical one, but the procedure should be the same for you, just with the different backplane.

We actually have a T430 with the 8x 3.5" backplane. I can't take it apart as it's in use currently, but I'd be happy to provide any pictures for reference if needed.

Hi, more than happy switching parts out etc and I did find a chassis on eBay but not the back place alone so will check into that.

I'm now just wondering if I will able to use normal SATA 3.5" WD reds that I have ? I can't find many if any 4tb+ SAS drives, so will normal SATA drives work OK?

 

[nasbuild]

From my understanding now I can use SATA drives with a SAS controller, and as you say I can get a used backplane for £20.

I can even get a SAS to SATA cable for £40 part number dell 0H40R, so can bypass the raid controller straight to the main board.

So unless I'm missing something this should all work just fine, not sure why the initial reply was to put the server on eBay?

 

[nasbuild]

@firesyde424 it won't work, the front plate won't take the drives will it, you got me all hopeful!

 

[jgreco]

not sure why the initial reply was to put the server on eBay?

Because while it might be possible to transform it, availability of parts might be nearly unobtainium, and if you can buy the same chassis but with LFF for $(x)00 dollars, and sell yours for $(x-1)00 dollars on eBay, that may actually end up being cheaper, easier, and more practical. Without lots of details on the repair FRU's that are available and how it all works, it seems risky to undertake. That's why I used the words "probably" and "might be easier" in my original reply. Nothing's impossible, but some things can be impractical.

 

[nasbuild]

Because while it might be possible to transform it, availability of parts might be nearly unobtainium, and if you can buy the same chassis but with LFF for $(x)00 dollars, and sell yours for $(x-1)00 dollars on eBay, that may actually end up being cheaper, easier, and more practical. Without lots of details on the repair FRU's that are available and how it all works, it seems risky to undertake. That's why I used the words "probably" and "might be easier" in my original reply. Nothing's impossible, but some things can be impractical.

You wasn't clear at all if you meant to buy a new chassis, you didn't mention buying a new chassis at all in fact so apologies I didn't pick up on it.

Looks like I'll be waiting for a new chassis to come around then!

With the RAID controller, is it best to bypass this with TrueNAS or does it not really matter?

Also, I don't need a huge capacity, maybe 4-8TB, so I'm wondering if lots of 1TB 2.5" may be the cheapest option....

 

[jgreco]

you didn't mention buying a new chassis at all in fact so apologies I didn't pick up on it.

I did say

Might be easier to put your existing unit up on eBay after buying a replacement.

Sorry if you missed or misunderstood that.

With the RAID controller, is it best to bypass this with TrueNAS or does it not really matter?

What's all the noise about HBAs, and why can't I use a RAID controller?

1) An HBA is a Host Bus Adapter. This is a controller that allows SAS and SATA devices to be attached to, and communicate directly with, a server. RAID controllers typically aggregate several disks into a Virtual Disk abstraction of some sort...

www.truenas.com

Also, I don't need a huge capacity, maybe 4-8TB, so I'm wondering if lots of 1TB 2.5" may be the cheapest option....

I've had very good luck with the WD Red 2.5 WD10JFCX. First released almost a decade ago, they are reliable little buggers. I've sold dozens of them for use on ESXi hosts behind a (true) RAID controller to provide RAID1 datastores, though you do have to be careful to run WDIDLE on them to make sure they don't drop out due to spindown. The main problem with them is that their price rapidly settled in at $70-$90 per unit and has stubbornly remained there. This was great in 2015 when a 500GB SSD might have been $200-ish, but is less compelling now that you can get a 1TB Samsung 870 EVO for $89. So what's really happened here is that there's been a stealth price "increase" on the HDD front because prices haven't kept pace with the falling price of SSD.

We don't really hear about people doing 2.5" all flash arrays here on the forums too often, and I'm not quite sure why that is. Seems like you could make a very nice fast NAS unit if you were willing to use a bunch of 2.5" SSD's, especially if you were doing mirror vdevs.

 

[firesyde424]

@firesyde424 it won't work, the front plate won't take the drives will it, you got me all hopeful!

That sucks. The cage itself being different didn't cross my mind. I'm going to guess they are either rivetted or some other immutable part of the chassis. Having said that, there are several empty chassis on ebay that can be had for reasonably cheap, though you are then dealing with the risk of moving your working components to the new chassis and possibly having them not work.

 

[rvassar]

The backplanes are often interchangeable like Lego's. But the sheet metal in usually configured completely differently between 2.5" & 3.5" servers, and often riveted, making reconfiguration difficult. There's also a lot of thermal design hidden in the differences. If you start making changes, you'll start hitting airflow & cooling problems. Buying a stripped chassis of the same model with the 3.5" cage and swapping parts is a better approach.

Keep in mind the 3.5" form factor is also becoming more of a specialty item. It's not going away, but it's getting pushed to bulk storage configurations. Consider 2.5" U.2 2 & 4 Tb NVMe drives are now common, and capacities 16Tb and higher are becoming available (with $5k+ per drive price tags...). It really only makes sense to buy a 3.5" chassis to fill with 20Tb drives in bulk.