Creating my 1st storage server criticism are welcome :) (server not for home use)

[Constantin]

@Constantin
(3-4 days ago i already looked into a 3-4U setup with alot more slot to expand no worries there.)
about the vdev , what if i decide to create first a vdev with 7 drives Z2 (as my example) , and later on expand it with another vdev with 5 drives Z2 , is it possible ? will it even work?
from what you explained it is possible (because that person put his stuff at risk while putting one drive) . just making sure it is.

I would add like for like. So if you start with a 7-drive Z2 VDEV, then I’d configure the second VDEV to also consist of 7 drives in a Z2 config.

anything else do you think i need to know/change/fix/replace/purchase before i begin this journey ?
i've noted everything that you pointed out and they will be fixed.

I am not an expert re: ZFS or your use case. These are my opinions based on a few years of running ZFS at home and reading the forum.

I suggest you DM @morganL to see if iXSystems can put together a build proposal that makes sense for your use case. Especially, if you want post-sales support to setup or maintain the rig.

 

[okoma]

You do realise you are annoying some of the core users of this forum right? People you or your "client" might come to depend on in the future.

I never said "GTFO", I said "start small, learning on your own personal expense, not your client's". There is a significant difference.

I should also suggest you learn to do some basic research first, before comming onto the forums to ask for help.
Actually, thats even a rule here, not my personal preference. A basic read in the docs (ZFS primer), some google searches and reading the introduction texts on the forums readlly would be enough...

That does not mean "GTFO" that means "RTFM and come back afterwards".
Just because you don't like the responses you get, also doesn't mean they are not constructive. They just don't want to assist with the way you want to run things and advice alternative solutions (such as: Getting a prebuild iX machine and/or forwarding your client to a professional with required knowhow).

The problem here, for some of us, is not the fact you are new (new people using ZFS is awesome). But the fact someone else is ****ed when you **** up. Why? because most users here run ZFS because of it's great data security. However: ZFS can also become super data-insecure if used incorrectly.

Hence we tend to advice components that do not put your data at risks too. That include the human component.
In your build/proposal, the weakest components are the RAID-card and you yourself. So we suggest replacing both components. Thats quite constructive in my book, just not the advice you wanted to hear.

it seems the only one annoyed is you because i dont agree with your narrative , since again you dont have anything good to say , you can stay away from this thread thank you very much.
you are not here to help nor give constructive advice , if you are not going to give any of them save your time and dont reply , im not here to fight with ya this kid war. honestly i'm not here for that .

if you want to keep replying to this thread go ahead im not stopping you , i will just ignore ya .
thats all i've got to say .
everyone else is pretty nice and actually helps.

@Constantin

thanks alot !

 

[ChrisRJ]

I feel compelled to support @ornias here (there are quite a few cases, where I do not share his views, but here I have to agree with him). It comes down to the point of being qualified for a job (irrespective of the salary taken for it or not). And my understanding is that you, @okoma , are learning on the job here. This is applaudable as long as it happens with proper "supervision" in place.

The scenario you describe sounds like serious business and the requirements, when broken down in sufficient detail, will likely cover 20+ pages (probably much more). Also, they likely contain legal aspects and potentially fines in case of non-compliance. To me this is a level of complexity that cannot be handled by a forum, even one like this with some of the most qualified people I have seen in almost 30 years on BBS/UseNet/forums. So you have to ask yourself whether your approach delivers the best possible outcome to the client. If 30 people have to work with something that is not the best possible option, that is a big issue. Even if you give them the whole thing for free, 12k or 20k Euros/Dollars are nothing compare to loosing a couple of thousand hours of work. And that is assuming the data can be re-constructed by re-doing the scans.

I realize that this is unlikely to change your perception. But I wanted to make the point that it is not only one "weirdo" who see your approach as problematic. Either way, I wish you good luck!

 

[Constantin]

@ChrisRJ, I agree that @okoma needs help specifying the system and likely will also need help setting it up. That's why I steered him towards getting professional help from iXsystems re: a suitable solution for his/her/their use case. They might also be able to help him find a consultant to help set it up. So I don't disagree with the core message that @ornias tried to send either.

@okoma would do well to better understand TrueNAS before jumping in and specifying a $$$ system. However, tone also matters and this is where @ornias has improvement potential. While his writing style can be very entertaining at times, the valuable signal in it may get drowned out by the other content because the intended recipient gets insulted, defensive, and so on. I doubt @ornias means to insult, he's just very blunt at times and that can put people off.

If @okoma has the time, buying a iXsystems Mini, learning to set it up, etc. will be time and money well-spent. While the Mini doesn't have all the bells and whistles of larger hardware, it does allow even beginners like me to start to master the software. Alternatively, and likely a even better choice, buy a used old supermicro chassis with an ancient motherboard from the approved hardware list for peanuts on eBay, get some SSDs and low-capacity HDDs for cheap, a thumb drive as a ISO, and start to play with hardware components that will more closely resemble the server he'll be dealing with eventually. Yes, the new server will be faster, more energy efficient, have a larger capacity, etc. but in the end, the software setup and many of the hardware setup / maintenance aspects will be similar enough to be very useful.

That's how reading the resources on this site, learning by doing, and likely asking for help from the forum more than once really helps budding sysadmins understand FreeNAS/TrueNAS. FreeNAS/TrueNAS had a very steep learning curve for me, and based on my questions here, it is evident that I'm still not a master. Perhaps one day I'll even be able to get SSLs to work.

 

[ChrisRJ]

@Constantin , that is quite a nice and balanced summary in my view. Thanks for sharing it and taking the time to write it in the first place!

 

[danb35]

I'll even be able to get SSLs to work.

If you have a domain, and DNS with Cloudflare or another of the 130+ providers with an API supported by acme.sh, my deploy script makes it pretty easy. But I guess that's off-topic on this thread.

 

[ornias]

However, tone also matters and this is where @ornias has improvement potential.

Sorry, but my initial message was not attacking him at all, that was friendly advice. There was no softer way of saying this, while still getting the point across.
While I'm quite open about the fact that I tend to be quite defensive and not-so-passive agressive, this was definately not one of those attempts :')

While everyone is free to do so, I also don't see how the continues references to my behaviour or tone is helping this user at all? It shouldn't mater if I am usually blunt, nice or a unicorn. His build/goals don't get any beter or worse by doing so.

To be very clear: I think @okoma has great potential and really wants to learn, and that is, like I also stated in my first post, A great thing and very welcome on these forums :)

I totally agree with the proposed homelab setup for learning and training like @Constantin explained. Though he also really seems to want to learn hardware, so I would definately advice the second option (SM server) over the first (TrueNAS Mini) in this case...

About this build: If you throw 10K+ against the wall for a server, most of the time it's just the raidcard and/or network card that is going to be really problematic. So there is nothing technically wrong with the system, besides the comments made earlier.

 

[okoma]

the first plan was to go raid 6 , and i state again i went and look for something else ,the server in the end of the day is going to be purchased , the question is what need to be purchased for it work with ZFS, i've got alot of notes that i've written down , and will change, "incase" (which i dont see the case because it truenas os seems pretty straight forward) something goes south before setting up anything, i can just fall back to raid 6 and initially set it up like it was suppose to do .
no worries there .

truenas is very well documented and have a great UI/UX which make it super easy to understand .
whole idea of asking questions is to learn where people failed , and what not to do .
this comes to what hardware to purchase , what hardware NOT to purchase beforehand , and not "throwing xxK$ against the whole" .

key notes taken:
1, if i want greater write/read speed split into multiple "equal" vdevs so zfs pool can split the workload therefor increase the speed .
2, bottlenecks is not the ethernet but the hdd since it wont reach the speed of the 1-10gb because the read/write speed of the hdd (unless we add vdevs) is way slower .
3, vdevs should be in raid aswell
4, LSI HBA cards are specially needed (is a must) for zfs to work properly.
5, Ram - to use 32gb sticks or higher to have an option to expand and add if needed in the future .

thats about it i think hopefully i didnt miss out anything .

i thought of a nice way of learning
you are welcome to challenge my setup (and perhaps my knowldge) to see if i miss anything or dont know a thing , if its a valid question to my setup/case and if i dont know how to answer i will do my research & answer / or ask if you raised a valid point which i dont know the answer to it.


btw @Constantin look at dans setup , "Pool: 6 x 6 TB RAIDZ2, 6 x 4 TB RAIDZ2, 6 x 8 TB RAIDZ2, 6 x 12 TB RAIDZ2" idk if this is one pool or multiple but it seems that he has different weight/space for each vdev. (just saying :) )