Confused about SAS expander cards

[danb35]

I don't know of any good general reason not to buy used server gear, other than that older gear will usually be less energy-efficient (but that doesn't seem to be a factor for you). and won't perform as well (though we're rarely pushing the performance limits of our gear). You'd want to burn it in thoroughly, of course, just as you would with a new build.

 

[danb35]

I should probably expand a bit on the performance point. Older gear within the same class will generally not perform as well as newer gear within that class. I'm quite sure that my old Dell server with dual Xeon X6550s (IIRC) will outperform a current Celeron. It won't come close to my (newer, but still EOL) dual E5-2670, which itself isn't going to perform as well as a comparably-specced E5-2670v3. But any of them is likely to beat any current E3.

With used Supermicro gear, stay with X8-series stuff and newer--the X7 has a front-side bus, which will kill your performance with ZFS.

 

[LIGISTX]

I should probably expand a bit on the performance point. Older gear within the same class will generally not perform as well as newer gear within that class. I'm quite sure that my old Dell server with dual Xeon X6550s (IIRC) will outperform a current Celeron. It won't come close to my (newer, but still EOL) dual E5-2670, which itself isn't going to perform as well as a comparably-specced E5-2670v3. But any of them is likely to beat any current E3.

With used Supermicro gear, stay with X8-series stuff and newer--the X7 has a front-side bus, which will kill your performance with ZFS.

Ok good to know. Anything newer than front side bus gear which at this point would be pretty old! I fully understand how the generations of chips have grown over the years, I have built many computers from core 2 duo till current gen stuff, so I fully understand the clock for clock improvements the silicon has has over the years, and major efficiency increases to boot.

But that being said, this is just a media server, it really doesn't need that much power. Only thing I am worried about is the older chips ability to do encryption on the fly and possibly compression. I know the newer chips have specific hardware to encryption, but I haven't looked into the older stuff for that specific Intel spec.


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[Valdhor]

This is pretty much what I have in my server rack and it runs great.

If it were me I would go for the L5520 server (Just to get the power down a little). I have one with E5540's. It even comes with 10GBe cards (Not that you'd use them - That gets expensive real fast what with switch's etc).

Just do it.

 

[danb35]

Well, 10GbE isn't too terrible, depending on how you do it, but it may have limited benefit. My Dell 5524 switch was $200 shipped off eBay, and some decent Chelsio two-port NICs around $140 each. I'm not sure the Mellanox cards are supported, though; I remember something indicating they weren't.

 

[techmattr]

As danb35 said, anything X8 and newer is still very relevant. The 55xx/56xx procs still hold their own in terms of performance as well. The biggest improvements in new generations is really idle power consumption. Which can be the most important number depending on where you live. I live in SW PA so electricity is dirt cheap and gets cheaper every year so the biggest downside for me is heat generation.

Also as another data point on the case... I love the TQ series. Takes a little longer to setup due to 24 cables but I much prefer direct path vs expander. Also with the newer SAS breakout cables they are so thin it's easy to hide them under power connectors. You do need 24 host ports available though... so If your board has 8 you still need a 16 port HBA or 2 8 ports HBAs.

 

[LIGISTX]

This is pretty much what I have in my server rack and it runs great.

If it were me I would go for the L5520 server (Just to get the power down a little). I have one with E5540's. It even comes with 10GBe cards (Not that you'd use them - That gets expensive real fast what with switch's etc).

Just do it.

Well, 10GbE isn't too terrible, depending on how you do it, but it may have limited benefit. My Dell 5524 switch was $200 shipped off eBay, and some decent Chelsio two-port NICs around $140 each. I'm not sure the Mellanox cards are supported, though; I remember something indicating they weren't.

As danb35 said, anything X8 and newer is still very relevant. The 55xx/56xx procs still hold their own in terms of performance as well. The biggest improvements in new generations is really idle power consumption. Which can be the most important number depending on where you live. I live in SW PA so electricity is dirt cheap and gets cheaper every year so the biggest downside for me is heat generation.

Also as another data point on the case... I love the TQ series. Takes a little longer to setup due to 24 cables but I much prefer direct path vs expander. Also with the newer SAS breakout cables they are so thin it's easy to hide them under power connectors. You do need 24 host ports available though... so If your board has 8 you still need a 16 port HBA or 2 8 ports HBAs.

Sorry to quote all of you guys, easier that way since I really only have "one" question, as in, nothing specific to any one of you in particular.

Pretty much ready to pull the trigger... I am looking at this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPERMICRO-...461618?hash=item21142db932:g:7QgAAOSwdzVXn1zv

For the price, I could basically throw away the mobo and CPU's and get a new current Gen setup to pop in it, 420 bucks for all of that!?!?! I am all over it!

Just to make sure tho, the mobo I would put in it is the X10SL7-F, so I could just use a reverse breakout and run the 2 SAS cables to the backplane and we good to go? The mobo mounting hasn't changed right? I would assume no, it should be standard. Power delivery as well, the old gen PSU's shouldn't be an issue?

I wouldn't end up using the 10 GB cards, cool to have, but probably won't ever get used...

This backplane should have no issue driving up to 24 cards right? And off of the dual SAS plugs I would have from the mobo? Remember, not trying to get crazy bandwidth, if I can saturate a CAT6 cable on read and writes, I am plenty happy! No need to go faster than my main RIG's SSD anyways hahahah.

Also, since I am just terribly confused by this. WHY is this one priced so much higher. as far as I can tell it is identical hardware spare the difference in CPU which shouldn't account for the price difference I don't think:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPERMICRO-...GB-NO-HDD-2-X-SSD-LSI-HBA-RAILS-/122068176986

If you guys say its all good, I will be ordering this sucker today!

 

[LIGISTX]

Sorry guys, forgot one part!!!

Will the HBA that ebay listing has (6GBPS SAS HBA (WITH LSI 9211-8I FIRMWARE), will that work? If I do stay with the old mobo/CPU for a while which is basically the plan, I am trying to figure out how to get that setup to work correctly for a "no issue" Freenas build.

 

[danb35]

Yes, that HBA looks fine. I can't explain the price difference either--I'd vote for the first one due to the greater RAM and much lower price. And I'd expect you could mount the X10SL7 as you describe, though you'd only need a single reverse breakout cable.

 

[LIGISTX]

Yes, that HBA looks fine. I can't explain the price difference either--I'd vote for the first one due to the greater RAM and much lower price. And I'd expect you could mount the X10SL7 as you describe, though you'd only need a single reverse breakout cable.

Thanks man!

Yea, the listing is sorta kinda strange... it lists it as: 32GB DDR3 MEMORY (4X 8GB + 8X 2GB)

Just sayin, I went to a lot of schooling for a long time, maybe its just me, but, 4*8 = 32, 8*2 = 16, 32+16 = 48.... I am very curious to see how much RAM I actually get

 

[LIGISTX]

Ok, buying this sucker!!!

I hope I do actually get what it lists out, considering that actually equates to 48 gigs of RAM, and I sure hope its ECC....

And then as far as the dual SSD's it comes with. Run them in RAID 1 and hope for the best? Or just buy one of those lil SATA type flash drive things?

And I hope the PSU wattage is enough, if I understand it correct, the R1200B is the redundant PSU's? Which are 1000 watt units I believe. I hope this was a good buy.

Thanks for the help everyone! Once I get it.... the fun will begin ;)

SYSTEM SUPERMICRO 4U 846E16-R1200B X8DTE-F WITH SAS2 BACKPLANE
MEMORY 32GB DDR3 MEMORY (4X 8GB + 8X 2GB)
PROCESSOR DUAL INTEL XEON L5520 8M CACHE 2.26GHZ
BOOT DRIVE 2 X 90GB SATA 2.5'' SSD
STORAGE DRIVES 24 X TRAYS (NO STORAGE INCLUDED)
HBA 6GBPS SAS HBA (WITH LSI 9211-8I FIRMWARE)
POWER SUPPLIES DUAL PSU INCLUDED (SEE IMAGE)
NIC 2X MELLANOX 10GBE NETWORK INTERFACE CARD
RAILS RAILS INCLUDED

 

[Stux]

Sounds like a good deal

And yes, just test the SSDs then use them

 

[LIGISTX]

Sounds like a good deal

And yes, just test the SSDs then use them

On that subject... How do I go about testing the hardware and SSD's? Im an overclocked, so all I know is AIDA64, memtest old school and GPU stuff. New to servers... And SSD testing, I don't even know where to begin lol.


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[Stux]

Start with memtest, run and check smart tests on the SSDs, then follow the HD burnin how to to test your HDs.

Use AIDA64/ overclocking techniques to check your thermals.

I don't think it's wise to 'Burn in' SSDs

 

[Stux]

Building and Burning in a Server:
https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/building-burn-in-and-testing-your-freenas-system.17750/

HD Burnin Testing:
https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/how-to-hard-drive-burn-in-testing.21451/

 

[LIGISTX]

Yes, that HBA looks fine. I can't explain the price difference either--I'd vote for the first one due to the greater RAM and much lower price. And I'd expect you could mount the X10SL7 as you describe, though you'd only need a single reverse breakout cable.

Just as an additional question which I think you may be able to answer, any input on this:

https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/vdev-setup.45218/

Thanks for all the help everyone, making all of this much easier than just reading info and pages and pages of forums until my eyes bleed.