Can TrueNAS report health of 2.5" SSD and NVMe SSD reliably?

[ChrisRJ]

Hi, some Synology users mentioned that it is not good to use SSD in a NAS as continuing writings can kill a SSD quickly.

I am pretty much just repeating what @Samuel Tai wrote, but in a more blunt way. The people you mention have no clue what they are talking about. It is like saying "do not use motorized vehicles to transport heavy goods because the suspension dies so quickly", when taking a small family car and putting 5 tons of load into it. Of course it will break. You simply chose the wrong vehicle for the job.

It is the same with SSDs. There are (amongst others) technical reasons why enterprise SSD cost so much more than consumer-grade stuff. If, and this is a big "if", the workload fits, you may be successful with e.g. the pro models from Samsung. But the QLC models are made for little write activity and they are fundamentally different from the pro models (hence their higher price).

It also seems that Samsung 2.5" EVO SSD does not play well with Synology NAS as people are complaining sudden dead of their SSD.

The SSD (and the exact model is critical here) does not play well with the workload the people threw at it. The same would have happened in a TrueNAS box, a Linux server, or a Windows desktop machine. It is purely the workload, i.e. a ton of write operations.

Not sure about the cause.

More write activity than those drives are specified for. Or the occasional bad drive, of course.

How is the situation using SSD (2.5" SATA3, NVMe) on TrueNAS systems? If I don't turn on the NAS (TrueNAS) 24/7, is it fine to use SATA III 2.5" SSD and NVMe SSD?

Runtime hours are irrelevant. It is only the amount of data written. I recommend you google for "ssd write endurance" and read up on the topic.

Have been using NVMe SSD the past few years without issue.

It is the way of using them. Coming back to my car analogy, you can pretty quickly kill a car on the race track (without an accident) which would have lasted 10 years with normal (less stressful) operation.

 

[Ericloewe]

Not to mention that (early?) 870 Evos have a nasty defect that causes them to have insane write amplification and to start corrupting data. That's not a universal issue, it's a "this SSD is a piece of crap" issue.

 

[consideringTrueNAS]

Besides speed of the storage media, there is another big factor to consider. I thought of Seagate Ironwolf many times over the past few weeks. One problem is getting the HDDs safely. BestBuy does not allow returns once the HDD package is opened. I asked them how I would know if it is working or not if I don't open it. They just said it is their policy. One time I opted for pickup in store. I went there. The retail box had a big hole in the middle. It was so big that a mouse could enter it. I asked the guy to give me another one but he did not want to do it. He asked me what is the problem with a broken box. I told him that it is a sign of abuse and I did not want to take the risk knowing that return is not allowed once the box is opened. After long argument, he processed the refund.

Another big store has most tech items out of stock throughout the year for the past few years. If I purchase online, there is a high chance that HDDs don't arrive in a well packed manner. Before the pandemic, online stores like Amazon had better packaging to protect electronics items. However, over the past 3 years, they never add protection to protect items. They sometimes even put items in a thin paper/plastic bag. I had items arrived badly damaged. Obviously heavy items were put on top and crushed the items inside. I have also seen delivery guys throwing packages include an expensive TV.

So even I want to give HDD a try, I cannot find a good way to get it safely. How do you guys and ladies deal with this?

 

[consideringTrueNAS]

I am pretty much just repeating what @Samuel Tai wrote, but in a more blunt way. The people you mention have no clue what they are talking about. It is like saying "do not use motorized vehicles to transport heavy goods because the suspension dies so quickly", when taking a small family car and putting 5 tons of load into it. Of course it will break. You simply chose the wrong vehicle for the job.

It is the same with SSDs. There are (amongst others) technical reasons why enterprise SSD cost so much more than consumer-grade stuff. If, and this is a big "if", the workload fits, you may be successful with e.g. the pro models from Samsung. But the QLC models are made for little write activity and they are fundamentally different from the pro models (hence their higher price).

The SSD (and the exact model is critical here) does not play well with the workload the people threw at it. The same would have happened in a TrueNAS box, a Linux server, or a Windows desktop machine. It is purely the workload, i.e. a ton of write operations.

More write activity than those drives are specified for. Or the occasional bad drive, of course.

Runtime hours are irrelevant. It is only the amount of data written. I recommend you google for "ssd write endurance" and read up on the topic.

It is the way of using them. Coming back to my car analogy, you can pretty quickly kill a car on the race track (without an accident) which would have lasted 10 years with normal (less stressful) operation.

It is very true. I guess it is a problem with the current internet era where anybody could post anything with no facts checked before publication.

At the beginning of the personal computer era, most home users were hackers and computer wiz. They knew what they were talking about. These days all sort of people with different backgrounds and experience levels use computers. There are also many people who don't know what they are talking about giving wrong advice on the internet. It is like A heard something from B who head something from C. Information from C could be incorrect and there could be mis-communication in the chain. When D asked something, A replied with incorrect information. Google helped to pass the incorrect information along worldwide.

 

[Samuel Tai]

So even I want to give HDD a try, I cannot find a good way to get it safely. How do you guys and ladies deal with this?

To date, I've had good luck with Amazon's hard drive mailers. The plastic end pieces provide physical separation between all sides of the box and the drive's anti-static sleeve.

 

[consideringTrueNAS]

To date, I've had good luck with Amazon's hard drive mailers. The plastic end pieces provide physical separation between all sides of the box and the drive's anti-static sleeve.

View attachment 63438

Is getting good packaging all by luck? I asked Amazon in the past but they said that they have no control on how the products get packed before shipment. Shall I just give them a try?

Before the pandemic, they also included a list of items in the box (kind of like a receipt) but they no longer do that. They seem to have opted for simplifying the packaging. Do people or machines do the packaging job?

 

[Patrick M. Hausen]

Our main supplier for parts uses professional shipping containers similar to Samuel's, depending on the number of hard drives. On Amazon I had received drives with just an antistatic bag around them bouncing around in a cardboard box.

One way to avoid that - if you are lucky finding a good price - is buying products explicitly labelled as consumer retail. These come in a nice glossy printed box with protection.

Like this:

 

[Samuel Tai]

On Amazon, I try to stick to the official vendor stores:

• Western Digital: https://www.amazon.com/stores/WesternDigital/page/5E1766B0-A5C2-4C1F-AE6C-6EFA0E55ADEC?ref_=ast_bln
• Seagate: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Seagate/page/5A2F1A72-27EC-408C-A192-9C70C8D1BF89?ref_=ast_bln

You can also look at a listing to see if it's from an official store:

This tends to improve the odds of the item being packed properly for shipping.

 

[Redcoat]

I had one case only, maybe 3 years ago, with Amazon Western Digital Store where I got a drive packed the same way as Patrick's description - loose in a box - after having received maybe a dozen or so in WD boxes as Samuel's pic. Sent it straight back for refund. Ordered two more - they arrived in WD "official" boxes, as have all my other WD drive purchases from Amazon.

 

[Ericloewe]

On Amazon I had received drives with just an antistatic bag around them bouncing around in a cardboard box.

It's been very hit and miss over the years. My feeling is that they sometimes receive bulk packaging where you might have 14 or so disks in a box with a packing foam insert and end up parting those up carelessly; whereas they're supposed to be receiving individual disks with plastic spacers/bumpers, which underpaid warehouse worker 257 can just pick up and put in an Amazon shipping box.

 

[ChrisRJ]

The other day I received a Toshiba 16 TB HDD in nice foam packaging but without any antistatic bag from a reputable German mail order company. It was a first from them, though. From Amazon I only buy retail (as @Patrick M. Hausen ), because in at least 3 cases there had been only the antistatic bag around the drive.

 

[Whattteva]

It's been very hit and miss over the years. My feeling is that they sometimes receive bulk packaging where you might have 14 or so disks in a box with a packing foam insert and end up parting those up carelessly; whereas they're supposed to be receiving individual disks with plastic spacers/bumpers, which underpaid warehouse worker 257 can just pick up and put in an Amazon shipping box.

I'm guessing cause a lot of times, the seller/fulfiller can actually be a third party (not Amazon).

 

[Ericloewe]

I'm guessing cause a lot of times, the seller/fulfiller can actually be a third party (not Amazon).

I mean specifically Amazon. They're bad enough, I'm not going even close to the wild west of 3rd party sellers on Amazon for HDDs.

 

[ChrisRJ]

I mean specifically Amazon. They're bad enough, I'm not going even close to the wild west of 3rd party sellers on Amazon for HDDs.

Exactly the same for me.

 

[Redcoat]

Mod note: This post references a now-deleted post from a spammer

Looks like an AI-generated post…

 

[Ericloewe]

Maybe if spammers used AI to figure out how to spam better and more discreetly instead of generating crap text for their feeble attempts at pretending to be real users they'd be more successful.

Fortunately for me, spammers are not the most sophisticated bunch.